Strange question...

paxye · Jul 18, 2012

OK...

My 10 year old is 4"9 and 105 lbs. He is out of the booster now and passes the 5 step test in the back row of our 08 Grand Caravan perfectly but not in any of the other seats so we just keep him in that row.

The thing is, he would love to be in the captain chair and it would make things a lot easier in the car to have him there because he could help with his sister etc... He would need a booster to fit perfectly in the middle row captain chair (the lap belt is a bit too much on his tummy and not his hips but he passes the other 4 steps) but I don't want to spend money on a booster that we really don't need because he does fit perfectly where he is now.

Here's is the catch... the biggest reason he would love to be in the middle row chair is because it can go RF... So... If he is RF would the seat belt position be less worrisome since the seat will be absorbing most of the impact in a crash?

EmmaCPST · Jul 18, 2012

You cannot sit in those seats rear facing while the vehicle is in motion. So, no.

If he wants to be in the middle row he needs to face forward. If he needs to be in a booster, he Harmony Cruz is like $18 and goes to 110 pounds. The Evenflo Amp Performance goes to 110 pounds as well and is $20-something.

LISmama810 · Jul 18, 2012

No. An ill-fitting seatbelt can cause injuries, and it could happen due to rebound from a frontal crash or from being rear-ended (which, in this case, would be the same as being in a frontal collision in a front-facing seat).

Also, a booster cannot be installed on a seat that doesn't face forward, so that's out, too.

He needs to ride in the third row (with or without a booster--however he fits best) or in a front-facing captain's chair with a booster until he fits properly without it.

You can get boosters as cheap as about $12 if that's a concern.

LISmama810 · Jul 18, 2012

EmmaCPST said:
You cannot sit in those seats rear facing while the vehicle is in motion. So, no.

I believe you can use them rear-facing while in motion.

paxye · Jul 18, 2012

LISmama810 said:
I believe you can use them rear-facing while in motion.

Yes, you can... They are made for that!

BTW... I am in Canada... I haven't seen any boosters that are that cheap and go past 100lbs...

EmmaCPST · Jul 18, 2012

LISmama810 said:
I believe you can use them rear-facing while in motion.

Really? I thought they had to be FF. Crash wise, assuming a properly fitting seat belt... how would that affect the passenger?

EmmaCPST · Jul 18, 2012

paxye said:
Yes, you can... They are made for that!

BTW... I am in Canada... I haven't seen any boosters that are that cheap and go past 100lbs...

Oh, yeah that limits your choices a lot since your son is over 100 pounds. Sounds like he's going to have to stay in the 3rd row.

LISmama810 · Jul 18, 2012

EmmaCPST said:
Really? I thought they had to be FF. Crash wise, assuming a properly fitting seat belt... how would that affect the passenger?

We don't really know, as we don't have crash data. There aren't actually federal standards for injury criteria other than the front seats, so we have to trust Chrysler that it's fine.

I'm wary myself, even assuming proper belt fit. One would think it would be awesome, right? Rear-facing adults? And maybe it is.

But I've posted before about a guy I talked to at Lifesavers last year who's an engineer for a company that makes ambulance seats. He was telling me about all the crash testing and design changes they had to do before they were able to make a rear-facing ambulance seat that didn't cause the dummy to ramp up dangerously high.

Ever since then I've questioned what kind of testing Chrysler has done with their rear-facing seats.

OP, I didn't realize you're in Canada, so I can't help with booster options.

EmmaCPST · Jul 18, 2012

LISmama810 said:
We don't really know, as we don't have crash data. There aren't actually federal standards for injury criteria other than the front seats, so we have to trust Chrysler that it's fine.

I'm wary myself, even assuming proper belt fit. One would think it would be awesome, right? Rear-facing adults? And maybe it is.

But I've posted before about a guy I talked to at Lifesavers last year who's an engineer for a company that makes ambulance seats. He was telling me about all the crash testing and design changes they had to do before they were able to make a rear-facing ambulance seat that didn't cause the dummy to ramp up dangerously high.

Ever since then I've questioned what kind of testing Chrysler has done with their rear-facing seats.

OP, I didn't realize you're in Canada, so I can't help with booster options.

Yeah it's the ramping up I was trying to picture in my brain.. plus being way more upright than a rear facing car seat is. It'd be interesting to see some numbers for sure. I definitely wouldn't be comfortable using one for my own kid to find out.

paxye · Jul 18, 2012

I am perfectly fine keeping him in the 3rd row until he fits perfectly in the second row... I was really just wondering because both he and my husband brought it up and I was trying to figure out why I would still be uncomfortable with it.

I do think that once he does fit in it though that I would allow him to RF if he really wanted to...

and yes, us Canadians really have much more limited options...

Kat_Momof3 · Jul 18, 2012

I'm just amazed that this is the problem simply because for my kids, they pass in the 2nd row before the 3rd row because the 2nd row shoulderbelts adjust and the 3rd row ones are so high... the lapbelt also seems to ride a bit higher in the 3rd row.

I'd like to see comparisons of how he fits in each (3rd row and 2nd row)

Also, sometimes, when there isn't an option (like for instance, my dh's 2007 chevy cobalt with super contoured outboard seats and no center headrest in the back) where you have a kid who is too heavy for any booster in your budget so you have to decide to use the booster or have an improper seatbelt fit) you have to use a booster even if the kid is over 100lbs and the booster only goes to 100... but it's so different than a harnessed seat weight limit since all the booster does is put them in the position for the belt to fit.

Mommy! · Jul 18, 2012

paxye said:
Yes, you can... They are made for that!

BTW... I am in Canada... I haven't seen any boosters that are that cheap and go past 100lbs...

I saw a NBB at Walmart a couple of weeks ago that was about $18; not sure what brand or weight limit, I didn't pay too much attention as I was looking for a HBB.

I'm in Ontario.

jacqui276 · Jul 18, 2012

Mommy! said:
I saw a NBB at Walmart a couple of weeks ago that was about $18; not sure what brand or weight limit, I didn't pay too much attention as I was looking for a HBB.

I'm in Ontario.

There is a no-back harmony booster at Walmart for about $18. It is the cheapest booster that I have seen in Canada. It does have a weight limit of 100lbs here and is somewhat narrow so I'm not sure how cozy it would be for a bigger kid?

Malka · Jul 19, 2012

Kinda hijacking the topic (sorry!) but a parent at my son's school puts forward facing seats in the rear facing seats to use for her babies. Yikes! I always want to say something, but I'm not 100% sure if this is technically not allowed, and I've never spoken to her so it'd be really weird to come up to her and criticize her parenting.

tiggercat · Jul 19, 2012

Mommy! said:
I saw a NBB at Walmart a couple of weeks ago that was about $18; not sure what brand or weight limit, I didn't pay too much attention as I was looking for a HBB.

I'm in Ontario.

The apramo backless is on sale for $12 at Canadian tire. Not sure of the weight limits.

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org

acoro · Jul 19, 2012

Malka said:
Kinda hijacking the topic (sorry!) but a parent at my son's school puts forward facing seats in the rear facing seats to use for her babies. Yikes! I always want to say something, but I'm not 100% sure if this is technically not allowed, and I've never spoken to her so it'd be really weird to come up to her and criticize her parenting.

I'm pretty sure every carseat manual I've read specifically indicates you cannot install the seats/booster in a rear facing or side facing seat

paxye · Jul 19, 2012

Kat_Momof3 said:
I'm just amazed that this is the problem simply because for my kids, they pass in the 2nd row before the 3rd row because the 2nd row shoulderbelts adjust and the 3rd row ones are so high... the lapbelt also seems to ride a bit higher in the 3rd row.

I'd like to see comparisons of how he fits in each (3rd row and 2nd row)

I'll try to take pictures... I think the difference though is that the Swivel n go seat are really big with an integrated seatbelt instead of being the slimmer stow n go seats with the belt coming from the side. (so no... they don't adjust)

Here is a pic of the Interior (with the table up) with stow and go seats the seats are about the same as the back bench... the swivel n go seats though are much bigger and the belt is high.

http://www.allpar.com/images/autoshow/7a-naias/swivel-and-go.jpg

Mommy! said:
I saw a NBB at Walmart a couple of weeks ago that was about $18; not sure what brand or weight limit, I didn't pay too much attention as I was looking for a HBB.

I'm in Ontario.

jacqui276 said:
There is a no-back harmony booster at Walmart for about $18. It is the cheapest booster that I have seen in Canada. It does have a weight limit of 100lbs here and is somewhat narrow so I'm not sure how cozy it would be for a bigger kid?

tiggercat said:
The apramo backless is on sale for $12 at Canadian tire. Not sure of the weight limits.

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org

The only one that I have seen that goes to 120lbs is the Ozzi which goes for 69$ at CT...

For a cheaper booster that goes to 100... we already have one... he had the TB and was using it without the high back for the last year or so and then just stopped using it a few weeks ago when we saw that he was OK without it...

paxye · Jul 19, 2012

Malka said:
Kinda hijacking the topic (sorry!) but a parent at my son's school puts forward facing seats in the rear facing seats to use for her babies. Yikes! I always want to say something, but I'm not 100% sure if this is technically not allowed, and I've never spoken to her so it'd be really weird to come up to her and criticize her parenting.

100% not allowed... it is clearly stated in the manual and all over the information pages that no car seats can be used when the seat is in the RF position. It is a definite no.

Here is a simple quote from the Dodge website

"*Seat must be locked in forward or rearward mode while vehicle is in motion. Child restraints must only be used when seats are in forward facing mode. Children 12 and under should always be seated in the rear seats properly restrained in a child seat or the vehicle seat belt."

http://dev.dodge.ca/en/grand_caravan/interior.html

Mommy! · Jul 19, 2012

Malka said:
Kinda hijacking the topic (sorry!) but a parent at my son's school puts forward facing seats in the rear facing seats to use for her babies. Yikes! I always want to say something, but I'm not 100% sure if this is technically not allowed, and I've never spoken to her so it'd be really weird to come up to her and criticize her parenting.

It's not allowed; all child safety seats and boosters are only tested and certified for use in forward facing vehicle seats, not rear facing in station wagons, suvs or the side jump seats in pickups etc. Forward facing seats only.

Hopefully one of the mods can recommend some written material you can share with her.

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