Why do people NOT know???

todzwife

New member
I am continually appalled when I see VERY VERY old car seats (with babies in them) at Wal-Mart, or at church. Why do more people not know that car seats expire? What about the "you need to replace a car seat if you are in an accident" rule? Or the, "your baby has LONG since outgrown that infant seat, he is no longer safe...please buy a convertible seat for peats sake!!". Or the "don't buy a car seat you don't know the history of"

I just don't get it. You would think that people would want to keep their kids safe, but so many I've encountered are SO completely in the dark it amazes me and makes me SO sad for their children.:thumbsdown:

They need to have commercials for these things.:rolleyes:
 
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southpawboston

New member
I am continually appalled when I see VERY VERY old car seats (with babies in them) at Wal-Mart, or at church. Why do more people not know that car seats expire? What about the "you need to replace a car seat if you are in an accident" rule? Or the, "your baby has LONG since outgrown that infant seat, he is no longer safe...please buy a convertible seat for peats sake!!". Or the "don't buy a car seat you don't know the history of"

I just don't get it. .:thumbsdown:

They need to have commercials for these things.:rolleyes:

when we first had DD1, we had no clue about expiration dates. if the seat appeared to be in good shape and all the parts were there, it seemed logical that it should work fine. it's simply lack of information being disseminated.

however when you say "You would think that people would want to keep their kids safe" you are implying that the parents don't care about their child's safety. that is *rarely* the case, i would hope. i know for a fact that DW and i cared for our DD1. we even went to a seat check. we were never once asked if the carseat being checked was bought new or had been given to us used (it was given to us used) and they never pointed out that it only had a year left on it. i only learned about expiration dates after joining here. gee, i thought we were concerned about our child's safety.

please realize that most people do care about their children's safety. the blame should not be put on people, unless it is clear that they have been given information (from an authoritative source, like a CPST at a seatcheck event, not some random safety conscious person in a parking lot... most people are put off by that type of advice), and they choose to ignore it. then you can place the blame on the parents. but typically, the blame should be put elsewhere, for failure to properly, consistently, and adequately disseminate that information to the masses.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
The law only says that parents must have a seat. There aren't major information campaigns telling people what they need to know. And those of us TRYING to get the word across are often seen in a very negative way.

It doesn't mean (the majority of) people don't care, it means they just don't understand why it's important. :twocents:
 

angie3096

New member
People do not know because no one has told them :)
Here are some giggles for you:
When I was pregnant with my daughter, my aunt gave us the seat that she had used for her grandson, who was at the time, 12 years old. My mother took it to a check and they confiscated it (thank goodness) and she came home without it. I was livid. I was like, "What do you mean they TOOK AWAY OUR CARSEAT?" She said they said it had been recalled. I said well when the company recalls a product they are supposed to give you a REPLACEMENT!!! I fumed for weeks.
I got a Graco travel system for my shower, with a Snugride. I took out the manual to put it in the car, and I was like, backwards? It goes in backwards? Why on God's green earth would I want to put it in BACKWARDS? I almost took it back.
Oh, how far I have come.
DD recently totally outgrew the MA, and we had a spare one, so I took it to my cousin. She has two kids and babysits and said she would love an extra carseat. She said "I'll be sure and return it to you when you need it." I said, well, it expires in March of 2009, so by the time my baby is born and out if the infant seat, this seat won't have a lot of life left. I'll just buy a new one. You can keep this one until then, but when it expires, I do want my Fido cover back!" She looked at me in TOTAL SHOCK. This is an educated woman, she is a GREAT mother, and she has always shown the utmost care for children's safety, but she looks at me incredulously and goes, "Carseats EXPIRE? I had never HEARD of such a thing." I said yeah, they're only good for six years. She was like you're kidding! I said no, check your manual! Honest!
If I were not an internet junkie, I would probably still be like her! Who reads the manual cover to cover when they get a new product? I always read the carseat ones now, but dd's bike came with a manual and I don't even know what I did with it. Ditto for pretty much every appliance in the house. Carseats LOOK so simple. You put it in the car, you put the seatbelt around it. What's to screw up?
I did not carefully read the manuals for dd's bike helmet, riding helmet, or life jacket. (Although we do have the helmet fits checked by someone--the lead car seat tech in our county also does bike helmets). My point is, I'm quite possibly endangering my own daughter's life in ways that I'm unaware of. I hope not, and I certainly would never do it knowingly, but it's possible. So I try to be understanding.
 

niccig

New member
the blame should not be put on people, unless it is clear that they have been given information (from an authoritative source, like a CPST at a seatcheck event, not some random safety conscious person in a parking lot... most people are put off by that type of advice).

I'm not a tech, and when I've talked to family and friends, I'm not some random person they don't know. A friend asked why DS is still RF, I explained why, increased safety etc. She still put her DS FF at 12 months. Even if I was a tech, I don't think she would have done any differently. A friend send me the Kyle Miller video and in her message said she won't use a booster until 5 for her son. But now, he's 3 and she's considering one.

Now these are great mothers, one won't buy a bunk bed because she thinks it's too dangerous for her boys, so they're concerned about safety. I think until car seat manufacturers change what's written on the box of the seat, nothing will change. It says FF at one and 20lb, and booster from 3 and 30lb. If the manufacturer says it's Ok, then it must be and I'll ignore anyone who says otherwise.
 

southpawboston

New member
well there are always SOME people who will listen to friendly advice. but for every positive story that people post here in that regard, there are several times more negative stories about people who simply didn't want to hear it. in general, people are put off by random people walking up to them in parking lots pointing out carseat errors.
 

laurenrachey

New member
I agree TV would be a great way to reach a large number of parents. I think the medical community also needs to chip in. Most everyone has to take their child to the doctor at some point. Whether that be a family doctor, a pediatrician or the health department. My pediatrician always discusses childproofing the house, outdoor safety, and seasonal safety (summer: water safety winter: don't walk on icy ponds, etc) but has never once mentioned carseat safety.

There are some people who just won't ever 'get it' despite hearing the emotional stories, laws or anything. The Kyle Miller Foundation gave a friend of mine a carseat. She is 23 and has had 4 kids. Her first passed away when she was only 17 (non carseat related). She took so long to pick it up, that they took the carseat back. I don't blame them. Someone else is probably better deserving of this seat, someone who cares more, but simply cannot afford a HWH seat. I feel awful that her 2yo is in a booster, and her 5yo is in nothing. But I tried sending her info, videos, talking to her...in the end, she has to care, and she doesn't. A lot of people have the "it won't happen to me" mentality.
 

Connor's Mom

New member
Some people just don't care.
I have noticed a ton of expired Britax seats being sold on e-bay by these we'll sell it for you places.
Like this one for instance that is a 1998 seat.....
Britax Roundabout Carseat Excellent Condition

I messaged them this:
"Just an FYI, this car seat expired over 2 years ago.
Per Britax on their web site:
"Britax recommends that the use of a child restraint be discontinued if the restraint is older than six years of age or has been in a severe crash. After six years, technology has changed, components degrade from the environment (depending on how and where stored), parts get lost or installed incorrectly, or instructions and labels may not be available or not legible. The restraint may be unsafe and should be destroyed."
http://www.britaxusa.net/support/faq.aspx
Thanks!"

And received this in return:
"Thank you for the information but their recommendation is to sell a new carseat. This carseat hasn't been used more than 10 times."

So I sent back:
"It is the overall age of the car seat that matters not the amount of times that it has been used when saying that a seat is expired. The age of the seat and the materials it is made of is the same age whether it was used over 1000 times or it was used just 10 times."

And received this:
"Well thank you for your input but as long as its not illegal to sell it that's what I'm doing. Best wishes."

I give up!
 

laurenrachey

New member
I never bother emailing, because really people just want the money. I usually just report them thru the ebay form. So far, all I've reported have been taken down. Ebay seems to be pretty good about (with my limited experience) but they rely on people like you and me to bring the items to their attention

I just reported 10 auctions (more than I've ever reported all together) I'll letcha know what happens...
 
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todzwife

New member
when we first had DD1, we had no clue about expiration dates. if the seat appeared to be in good shape and all the parts were there, it seemed logical that it should work fine. it's simply lack of information being disseminated.

however when you say "You would think that people would want to keep their kids safe" you are implying that the parents don't care about their child's safety.


No, I didn't mean to word it that way...

I know parents want to keep their kids safe, it's just that they don't KNOW that using expired car seats, using seats over the weight limit etc. IS putting their child in danger. They just don't KNOW. I wish there was a way to LET them know because I KNOW they'd want their children to be as safe as possible...
Clear as mud?
 

lovemyfamily

New member
I like to think that they just don't know. That they assume that the seat is good forever and it really is sad. I hate to think that people don't care, so I am just going with they don't know.
I wish all seat has expiration dates right on them.
 

Loves2sing

New member
Some people just don't care.
I have noticed a ton of expired Britax seats being sold on e-bay by these we'll sell it for you places.
Like this one for instance that is a 1998 seat.....
Britax Roundabout Carseat Excellent Condition

I messaged them this:
"Just an FYI, this car seat expired over 2 years ago.
Per Britax on their web site:
"Britax recommends that the use of a child restraint be discontinued if the restraint is older than six years of age or has been in a severe crash. After six years, technology has changed, components degrade from the environment (depending on how and where stored), parts get lost or installed incorrectly, or instructions and labels may not be available or not legible. The restraint may be unsafe and should be destroyed."
http://www.britaxusa.net/support/faq.aspx
Thanks!"

And received this in return:
"Thank you for the information but their recommendation is to sell a new carseat. This carseat hasn't been used more than 10 times."

So I sent back:
"It is the overall age of the car seat that matters not the amount of times that it has been used when saying that a seat is expired. The age of the seat and the materials it is made of is the same age whether it was used over 1000 times or it was used just 10 times."

And received this:
"Well thank you for your input but as long as its not illegal to sell it that's what I'm doing. Best wishes."

I give up!

Did you flag it?
 

laurenrachey

New member

Connor's Mom

New member
Yes I flagged it.

There are several expired seats, mostly RAs, by these you sold it stores that are expired and are advertised with LATCH. LATCH wasn't even on a a RA in 1998. :rolleyes:
 

elle7715

Member
I think it comes down to a few things.
For one, I think the way car seats are perceived is a problem. People tend to think of them as just something to keep your kids restrained, not as safety equipment. As long as the kid isn't wandering around the backseat some people think the car seat is 'doing it's job'. It certainly doesn't help that even car seat companies didn't want their car seats marketed as "child safety seats" instead of "child restraints" (remember that Chicago Tribune article?).
I buckle my kids up as if we're going to get in a car crash every time. Not because I'm paranoid, but because I know what can happen and I know better. You'd think a basic understanding of physics would make people buckle their kids in properly...but it doesn't. When people get into a car it's like they're getting into a bubble...it won't happen to them.
And this is from my experience. Too much trust in the system. I thought that, as a baby product, car seats would have strict standards and if they weren't 100% safe surely the companies would diligently hunt them down and have then destroyed. When a toy might have lead paint it is recalled and spread all over the news. Surely something like car seats (meant to save your child's LIFE) would be treated the same way. But nope, there have been no mass broadcasts or public service announcements about the dangers of old car seats.
Plus, it will cost you money. Why was the "Back to Sleep" campaign so successful? Because it was simple to implement and didn't cost a thing. When they hear that their kid might not be safe unless they buy something...that makes people suspicious.
And yes, some people just don't care. But most just don't understand the seriousness of it.
 

Avery'sMama

CPST Instructor
Some people think the expiration is just BS. I had someone tell me a few weeks ago that her husband thinks that expiring seats is really just a ploy to get people to spend more money on car seats. He wants to use their 7 or 8 year old infant seat. I told her she could have my DS's if it was that big a deal. What aggrevates me the most are people who can afford to do better but don't. I had the booster seat convo. AGAIN today. Michigan is in the process of passing booster seat legislation and man does it irritate people. I keep hearing how stupid it is that kids under 12 will have to be in the back seat and under 8 in boosters. I just don't understand why parents don't grasp the seriousness of this!
 

Tiffanie

New member
I have to agree it all comes down to people just not knowing the importance. These days people look at tv for the important things and there is nothing on tv stressing the carseat importance.

My neighbor has 4 kids, ages 12-3. She's still using the carseat for her 12 year old with her 3 year old, no matter what I tell her. Unfortunately she just says law says she needs a seat, doesn't matter what kind. She's right, there's nothing enforcing you not use an expired or used seat so people will do it. Sadly there's also the money factor. I have another neighbor who's 3 year old is in a booster seat because that's what the county gave her to use. It's sad :(
 

flipper68

Senior Community Member
The easy answer is one that one of my instructors said the first day of tech class and it still rings in my mind, "People don't know what they don't know."

Why?

Because life is busy. Sometimes other things are more important - like making sure your baby has food or your parent makes it to their chemo or dialysis appointment.

Because there is so much information on so many different things and it is easy to find conflicting advice.

Because the info and "best practice" in CPS is constantly changing: used to be 20 lbs. or 1 year. Then "at least 20 AND 1 yr.," now: "for as long as the seat will allow." Ditto for keeping in a harnessed seat and 5 pt vs. a T-Shield, OHS, or a 3pt harness.

If you have an interest or experience in a particular area, it is easy to forget others don't have the same (I'm sure we could fill another thread from all your examples):

I had a good laugh today at work. I was working with the chair of a volunteer board. Great lady. Quite bright and very active in her community and politics. Yet, she didn't know how to reply to an email AND more importantly, doesn't touch type. Blew me away!! She's a business owner (2 in fact). What do you mean you can't type!?! Having grown up with parents (my dad is in his mid 70's) who BOTH typed, I was always facinated by typewriters ('cause my parents used them all the time). I knew and practiced the home keys by the time I was 7 (in the days B4 computers). Now, I can type faster, and certainly, neater than I write.

My dad has some very funny stories of bankers and business men who came to tour the packing plant where he worked for many years (in finance, not processing). These adults were totally clueless about where their hamburger and steak came from.

Then there was my college friend who was raised in Nigeria. One of the first days of college, she went running excitedly to a pile of gravel because she thought it was SNOW. Those of us from the midwest were laughing hysterically until we realized she really didn't know that there was NOT going to be a pile of snow in the parking lot in AUGUST. She's not stupid in any way. She just didn't know what she didn't know.

It is not hard to find an adult who was born/raised in New York City who doesn't own a car and doesn't have a driver's license, but in rural communities, you will find MANY 10-12 year olds driving vehicles of all shapes and sizes.

It is certainly not hard to find people who have NEVER held a baby, made a bottle, or changed a diaper, much less purchased and installed a car seat.

Probably more than my :twocents:, but I get tired of the complaining about "careless" or "ignorant" people with regard to many topics.
 

sb518

New member
Because nobody tells them. THey don't advertise it, the car seat companys don't make it in BIG BOLD LETTERING. I had NO IDEA carseats expired until I started digging into my carseat obsession and researching. These new parents are doing EVERYTHING they know to keep their children safe, nobody ever told them or warned them about car seats.
 

TN Mary

New member
So I guess the moral of the story is: car seat manufacturers are part to blame for not doing their due dilligence with better labeling on their boxes.

They're all printing the minimal standards... so if it's good enough for the manufacturer, then it'll be good enough for the masses. I guess it would take the government (or maybe the NHTSA) to enforce better guidelines.

I guess what's so frustrating is that the information is OUT THERE and nowadays is so easily accessed with the internet... but yet, there are still SO many parents who are in the dark when it comes to this stuff.

Also, I wish pediatricians would BETTER INFORM parents. Because afterall, car seat safety is ALSO about the child's health (IMHO).

I think our children's generation will be much more informed. We're still a part of a generation that came home from the hospital in our mother's arms. My mom used to tell me that when I was a baby, I used to ride around in a laundry basket on the floorboard of the car. Then she'd always make that comment that made my skin crawl... "You used to ride around in a laundry basket and nothing happened to you!"

What she doesn't think about is if we ever got into a wreck, I wouldn't EVEN BE HERE!! :dizzy:
 

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