Children can be taken for lack of car seat

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
This is kind of a complicated issue--more complicated than I could express in the title ;)

Here's the article: http://mobile.latimes.com/p.p?m=b&a...DL.w=&DL.d=10&DQ=sectionId%3A5217&DPS=0&DPL=3

(yikes, hopefully that link works)

Anyway, an unrestrained 18-month-old was killed in a crash, and the state took the other two children into custody.

California law allows surviving children to be taken if another child died due to neglect. The father in this case sued, arguing that the neglect needed to be criminal neglect, but a court upheld the agency's decision.

Other factors include the fact (?) that the child who died had hurt her arm, and the dad had lent his car (with her car seat) to someone, so she was sitting on her aunt's lap on the way to the hospital. That's when they got hit.

Also, CPS later received a tip that the other children were being neglected and found that the children indeed were not receiving proper care. So it's not like the car seat was the only issue.
 
ADS

Baylor

New member
I did not read article yet but I will in a moment, however, if the child was hurt, and they were rushing to hospital and got hit, this seems like overkill to me and overreaching by the state.

Off to read article.

ETA: read still feel same. If he was not on his way to hospital for care I'd probably feel differently. But when your child is injured you just react.

So sad.

auto correct hates me
 

babyherder

Well-known member
Very sad story. If the children were neglected in other areas I can see removing them. Otherwise I would rather see the parents required to get car seats (with recommendations to programs and seat checks) and then if they don't comply consider removing the children. But either way how sad for this family.
 

Brianna

New member
What a tragedy. I feel bad for the whole family, and especially seeing that this was because the little girl was injured, I hope there is a program in place for him take classes and move into more appropriate housing to get his other children back.
 

tiggercat

New member
Brianna said:
What a tragedy. I feel bad for the whole family, and especially seeing that this was because the little girl was injured, I hope there is a program in place for him take classes and move into more appropriate housing to get his other children back.

If you read the article, it sounds like he has taken parenting classes and the other kids have been returned.
Blake, William's attorney, said the ruling would affect other parents more than William. After more than a year in foster care, his children were returned to him after he took several parenting courses.

Kim Nemoy, principal deputy county counsel, said the county had sympathy for the grief-stricken father and worked to ensure he would be able to regain custody once his parenting skills improved.
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Baylor

New member
I think what bothers me is this is not a dad who should no regard for car safety. She had a cs.

If this was his car, no seat... Maybe. But under these circumstances I think they went too far.

auto correct hates me
 

SignCuer

New member
Yeah.. a bit harsh but it seems that the society are so lax regarding child car safety. Maybe this will help touch other parents and see that it's possible for your child to be taken away and be more mindful of it.
 
The kids were taken a week after the accident, when someone reported the family for neglect.
Unsanitary, overcrowded living conditions, dental neglect, and children left unsupervised are all reason enough to take children out of their home and put them into foster care.
This was not a 1 time lapse in judgment that tragically resulted in a child's death. This father clearly makes multiple lapses in judgment on a daily basis.
Multiple lapses in judgment, one of which resulted in his daughter's death.

And, his kids were in care for a YEAR? It took this father over a year to complete parenting classes? If he had to attend multiple sessions of parenting classes, it means that he attended, and was not applying the stuff he learned to parenting his kids during visitation time.

I feel like most of this case had very little to do with a lack of child restraint.
 

HEVY

New member
The children were removed for a reason, just because a person takes parenting class doesn't mean everything is OK, doesn't mean they have changed, it only means they took a class required to get their children back.
People react differently to things. So you can say he was so stressed his kid got hurt he wasn't thinking, I don't agree. He could have taken an ambulance.
This may be one of the reasons his kids were removed to begin with, poor decision making, decisions that put his kids in danger.

For someone in his position, he should have been more mindful.

And I'm not a cold, hard itch, jsut saying you don't know they whole story and history and in his situation it may have been warrented.
 

4boysmom

New member
My 2.5 yo son fractured his leg one afternoon but we did not take him in until the next day not being sure what happened and thinking he might just be cranky. My husband was at work, with our carseats so I looked for our backups in the garage. Head a full inch over the top of the Sr30 so i asked to borrow the neighbors seat as they have a 18ish mo. after the person driving me wanted to take him in a hb booster... uh hell to the no. Especially given the fact at that point he was flipping the hell out. Unknown history seat looked in good order and was set to rearfacing by its owners still so i made the parental desicion that the seat was legit. If it had looked off I would have called my husband to come get us, it was a risk i took and a risk this father should have taken (finding any sort of suitable seat in the neighborhood) IMO over having a lap child period... find another seat or call an ambulance.
My kid was in extreme pain and flipping the hell out but he was not in a super time sensitive situation that gave me any excuse to just 'hop in the car and go '. I was told to get him to the Dr ASAp when the advice nurse heard him screaming in the background but still a delay of even 60-90 minutes to get my affairs in order would not have put him in harms way (I knew he hurt his leg as he would not bear weight but there was no brusing so I knew he wasn't internally bleeding or anything and no fever to indicate any other ominoius issue)

Add in the fact the lack of car seat just served as a gateway to realize the kids had 'bigger issues going on and removal of the kids until dad showed better judgement is not odd to me.
 

laurengt

Active member
I would definitely say "screw the car seat" if there is a life threatening situation -- the you are just doing a "lesser of the evils" and playing the odds: if child is I controllable hemorrhaging, got run over by a car, drown, etc., it's obviously more likely that the danger lies in the injury than in the transportation. Since nothing in the article that I saw went into depth about the "injury" to the child's arm, I am assuming it was not life threatening.

It seems to me that the law exists as a window into the family and the care of kids. In this case, it allowed child svcs. to investigate if there was more neglect happening than the car seat absence/misuse. Had child svcs. found a clean home and kids obviously being well-cares for, I highly doubt they would have been removed from the home. In my experience, many kids who are not properly restrained in the car are also receiving sub-par care at home; and vice-versa with kids whose parents put theirs safety in and out of the car as a premium.

The article seems to be trying to focus that "kids removed because sister was killed for not being in a car seat" but it seems more that they weren't being cared for properly in multiple areas of care.

It's sad but I hope dad takes the hint that he needs to do better instead of just arguing with the agencies.
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
The

And, his kids were in care for a YEAR? It took this father over a year to complete parenting classes? If he had to attend multiple sessions of parenting classes, it means that he attended, and was not applying the stuff he learned to parenting his kids during visitation time.

I feel like most of this case had very little to do with a lack of child restraint.

Honestly, once the kids are taken,m they very rarely return in less than 6 months, and a year is more likely. :( :( I have had my eyes opened recently to how it all works. It doesn't really matter if the "offense" is something that is fixable in a day or 2, once the kids are taken"?? you could have every single thing fixed the next day, and you still won't get your kids back for 6 months to a year. If nothing else, the courts simply don't move very quickly. I have one client who finished all her required classes last year, and finally had a court appt in June to get her kids back.. except she went and her lawyer didn't show up!!! so the case got continued. Until october. so, now she does nothing but wait for 4 more months, to geta ruling on whether or not she gets her son back. 4 months. for no reason other than "thats when the next available court slot was". It will be nearly a year at that point from when the boy was taken, and the issues were all fixed and all the classes and counseling completed and she was certified fit and ready to go in like dec/january. At which poiint they scheduled the June date,. Which has now been continued to Oct. :(:mad::( CPS around here is pretty good at workign with parents such that kids don't need to be removed, and the parents get chances and opportunity to fix most things with the kjids still in the home.... but if they actually TAKE the kids? thats pretty much it, you aren't getting that kid back for a year, regardless of what you do or how quickly you do it. :thumbsdown:
 

jacqui276

New member
If it was a life threatening emergency, they should have called an ambulance. If it was a non-emergency, they have time to figure out a car seat.

Here it takes A LOT before children are removed from a unfit situation. I had a friend awhile back where myself and her family tried for a long time to get her child removed from her care. The dad was a pedophile and had been in prison for such, she had a brain injury causing her to make not so good parenting choices, the baby was neglected, fed candy and pop instead of breast milk or formula, hit if she cried, etc.. She was 8 months old before she was finally removed from the situation (and is now 7 and both parents still have no access) and we started reporting issues when she was first born (her other daughter had previously been taken away for similar issues, she is now 14 and the mom is allowed occasional phone calls just as of recently.
At work I have lots of apprehended kids as patients and it usually takes something very very appalling to get the parents completely removed from the situation. We also have a shortage of foster care though which plays a big role in the extremes that it takes for a child to be removed versus CPS just working with the family to improve the situation. There are times though where I have had patients not removed from care after we report abuse, only to have the kid come back in with a traumatic brain injury or die from shaken baby syndrome because the abuse continues. It is really sad and I wish that it wasn't so hard to get a child removed from an unsafe situation sometimes.

That being said, I agree that once kids are taken away it is also a lengthy process to get them back. I have seen a few returned in a matter of weeks but it is rare. It is usually substantially longer since it takes so long to get a court date.

Although I do think that driving with your 18 month old not in a car seat should be enough without all of the other issues to signal neglect.
 

Starlight

Senior Community Member
Yeah, unless you get them back at the first court hearing (usually 3-7 days in), it's going to take 6-12 months. My husband and I were foster parents for several years and it always astounded us seeing the list of things people were expected to accomplish... maintaining employment, visiting their children 1-2 times per week at times that were consistently changed because of the "needs" of the system (ie, this week it could be T & Th 10-12, next week it might be M 9-11 and Th 10-12), attending all court appointments, monthly team meetings, attending psychological testing, participating in random drug drops (a process which involves calling in to a certain number before 9 am everyday and being told if you need to come in and pee in a cup sometime that day before 6 pm), attending anger management classes and/or therapy, attending all of the childs doctor and/or therapy appointments. And if you say "I can't do this, my boss won't let me take the time off" then you're not meeting the childs needs, choosing work over the kids... but yet you're required to maintain a job, so you can't just quit to attend the thousands of appointments that are required. The logistics of it all are just mind boggling. I was a SAHM, but needed a sitter on call and a husband with a flexible job schedule just to be a foster parent, and I wasn't even dealing with half of the "work" the birth parents had. The system is great, but it is also really messed up. :(
 
Honestly, once the kids are taken,m they very rarely return in less than 6 months, and a year is more likely. :( :( I have had my eyes opened recently to how it all works. It doesn't really matter if the "offense" is something that is fixable in a day or 2, once the kids are taken"?? you could have every single thing fixed the next day, and you still won't get your kids back for 6 months to a year. If nothing else, the courts simply don't move very quickly. I have one client who finished all her required classes last year, and finally had a court appt in June to get her kids back.. except she went and her lawyer didn't show up!!! so the case got continued. Until october. so, now she does nothing but wait for 4 more months, to geta ruling on whether or not she gets her son back. 4 months. for no reason other than "thats when the next available court slot was". It will be nearly a year at that point from when the boy was taken, and the issues were all fixed and all the classes and counseling completed and she was certified fit and ready to go in like dec/january. At which poiint they scheduled the June date,. Which has now been continued to Oct. :(:mad::( CPS around here is pretty good at workign with parents such that kids don't need to be removed, and the parents get chances and opportunity to fix most things with the kjids still in the home.... but if they actually TAKE the kids? thats pretty much it, you aren't getting that kid back for a year, regardless of what you do or how quickly you do it. :thumbsdown:

Actually, that is not at all true in my area. Most kids who are going to end up home with parents end up home in 3-6 months. I've been a foster parent for 6 years, and only in ONE case did it take over a year for the kids to be returned home. If the kids have been in foster care for a year, CPS really starts to look at adoption instead of reunification.

And, during our entire time of being foster parents (6 years, 16 kids have come through our house), I have never seen a parent complete an entire case plan, and have to wait an additional 10 months for kids to be returned home, nor have I heard of this from any other foster parent. Juvenile court is every single Tuesday in our county. Every week, there is a chance to schedule a court date to return a child/children home.
I have sat through the waiting game with an 8 year old girl whose mother needed to complete 1 item (psych eval) for her to return home. If mom could complete the pysch eval by WED, the child would go home the following TUES. If she waited until Thurs, the child would go home a week later. Not a month later, not 10 months later.
I've been through that waiting game with multiple placements.
 

Starlight

Senior Community Member
Our area had an entire court building devoted to Juvenile issues, with multiple judges, court rooms, etc, and they couldn't get people in that fast. :(
 

bobandjess99

Senior Community Member
Actually, that is not at all true in my area. Most kids who are going to end up home with parents end up home in 3-6 months.
Juvenile court is every single Tuesday in our county. Every week, there is a chance to schedule a court date to return a child/children home.
I have sat through the waiting game with an 8 year old girl whose mother needed to complete 1 item (psych eval) for her to return home. If mom could complete the pysch eval by WED, the child would go home the following TUES. If she waited until Thurs, the child would go home a week later. Not a month later, not 10 months later.
I've been through that waiting game with multiple placements.

I'm so happy you live in a great area where it sounds like social services is on the ball, and the available facilities and staff are not hugely backlogged, overworked and functioning in a grossly substandard manner. Like starlight, please believe me when I say that is simply how it is here. It's a bigger city, super high crime, abuse and poverty rates, budgets cut to the bone, the lack of services is fairly appalling actually. :(:mad::( As to your situation of sitting in the hallway, i too was sitting in the hallway at the Juvenile court, next to a fairly nice couple who was there because they had finally been called in to establish child support and paternity, because the mom had gotten food stamps and therefore was required by law to "go after" her partner for child support, even though he lived with her and supported the whole family, they just weren't married. The child in question?? eight. YEARS. old.
Ya. Backlogged. :rolleyes:
 

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