OT: Car safety for dog

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 13, 2007

Not quite sure where to post this so I hope this is the right place -- please move as needed.

I must admit.... I'm fanatic about my kids' car seats but I have done nothing for my dog....

Here's the "problem" --- we've got a almost 100+ Ibs Saint Bernard Puppy in the back of my Volvo station wagon. I have one of those dividers between the cargo area and the backseat, so he can't get to the kids. It's in rock solid, however, I realize that having 100+Ibs flying thru the car can be fatal for all parties involved.

WHAT ON EARTH can I get him to secure him? There is (obviously) no room in the back seat, and he's too big to sit in the front passenger seat hooked to the seatbelt.

The only thing I can think of is getting the harness thingy that you use with the seatbelt and sort of hook it to one of the tethers behind the backseat..... (so he remains in the cargo area)

Any ideas?

I never take him and the kids anywhere together, so apart from the time we actually picked him up and he was tiny, that never happens (not saying that it WON'T happen). But I am concerned for his safety and although I drive carefully I can never know what another car may do (as we all worry about). We go max 5 miles at a time (to training, and various sites for training), however, I don't want to continue to take any chances. He'll continue to grow, as he's only 8.5 months old.... so I need to figure something out soon.

HELP!

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 13, 2007

Ok, to help answer my own question, I did find this http://www.ruffrider.com/. It can be used in the cargo area.

And this....
http://www.canineauto.com/

Any opinions of these? If you can point me in a different direction I'll check that out as well. Now when I found a few I'd like to put in an order ASAP......

UlrikeDG · Aug 13, 2007

Is it a Volvo cargo barrier? If so, the first thing I'd do is contact Volvo and find out if it has been crash tested, and if so to what weight. I'm pretty sure the answer is, "No, it hasn't been," but it's worth a shot.

You cannot connect one of those harnesses to a tether anchor. They aren't designed for primary restraint, and your dog is well above the maximum weight limit for secondary restraint. Are there cargo anchors back there? Check your manual for the weight limits on the cargo anchors. The Ruff Rider can be attached to a cargo anchor using a carabiner. Their instruction manual includes the weight requirements or you could call them. They have good customer service. IMMI also makes a pet harness. Your dog is too heavy to use the IMMI LATCH connector, but it works well with a seatbelt.

I have both the Ruff Rider and the IMMI harnesses. I think the IMMI harness is a little easier to use, but it would require some modification to use with a cargo anchor. Also, a CPST friend of mine got the Ruff Rider to use with her Newfie pups, and apparently, they have some sort of exchange program, so you don't have to spend full price to get a new harness when the dog outgrows the smaller one.

When we had a wagon, my usually dog rode in the front seat with his harness. I wanted my kids in the back where it was safer, and I didn't want him becoming a projectile in a severe crash or getting out of the vehicle while scared or hurt in a less severe crash.

stayinhomewithmy6 · Aug 13, 2007

I have the PetBuckle (IMMI) for my Golden Retriever. She's only 45 lbs and I use it with a seat belt, but I do love it. It's very easy to use and seems very well constructed and safe. If you can figure out a way to use it, it's a nice option.

Mama2J · Aug 13, 2007

Thanks for the info on these! I'm going to look at the PetBuckle and RuffRider. Hopefully they sell these in a pet store around here. I'll have to figure out what size she is before I go.

UlrikeDG · Aug 13, 2007

The IMMI PetBuckle is at my local PetSmart and PetCo. I don't think I've seen the Ruff Rider at either place, but their customer service can help you pick the best size for your dog.

Momto2whosews · Aug 13, 2007

I have the IMMI PetBuckle for Maddie. She's a 65 lb. Alaskan Malamute. She rides in the cargo area of my Santa Fe. It's the only place she'll fit. We don't have a barrier, but she doesn't try to jump through anyway. We do ride as a family (and she's a part of our family), so I got the PetBuckle. Sadly, I don't think there is any product out there that would save her life in a crash (if there was, I'd have one) but at least this keeps her from being thrown into us.

I had a LATCH strap from my old Evenflo Triumph that I use to secure her harness to the middle tether anchor, which can't be used by any carseat, since I can't fit 3 across in my vehicle.

I really like the PetBuckle and was very impressed with how it fit her, and how solid the buckles are. They make the same "click" sound that a seatbelt makes when you buckle them, and they look really durable. The harness also has a D-Ring on the back for a leash.

Mama2J · Aug 13, 2007

Our dog is 75 pounds, and she can probably sit in the back seat if she fits next to the Regent. The next car I'm getting will have a cargo area, so she may be more comfortable back there.

UlrikeDG · Aug 13, 2007

I'd be concerned about the LATCH strap or Tether Anchor failing in a crash. The tether anchor is NOT designed to be the primary point of restraint. It is designed to improve the performance of a seat that is being mostly held in place by a seatbelt or lower latch connectors.

keri1292 · Aug 13, 2007

Since we're on the subject...what do you think about using the bars bolted into the van from a removable 2nd row captains chair to LATCH the dog to. With 3 kids and an open captains seat, I could remove it and give the dog plenty of room this way. That would be safe as the bars are designed to hold the seat in place, right?

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 13, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
Is it a Volvo cargo barrier? If so, the first thing I'd do is contact Volvo and find out if it has been crash tested, and if so to what weight. I'm pretty sure the answer is, "No, it hasn't been," but it's worth a shot.

You cannot connect one of those harnesses to a tether anchor. They aren't designed for primary restraint, and your dog is well above the maximum weight limit for secondary restraint. Are there cargo anchors back there? Check your manual for the weight limits on the cargo anchors. The Ruff Rider can be attached to a cargo anchor using a carabiner. Their instruction manual includes the weight requirements or you could call them.

No, it's not the volvo barrier.......and now I'm thinking that I should get that one instead. I'm not sure what the one I have is called, but it's got the net effect -- not the bars going from side to side. IT's solid though, but now you have me thinking if there is some kind of issue with "volvo needing volvo" in order to work BEST....

Also, it has the cargo anchors and I'll have to check the manual for the max weight. Come to think about it, I should call Volvo too to ask them about their opinion about a different manufacturers barrier, and the cargo anchor weight (Basically my whole situation).

Here's a stupid question.... provided that my cargo anchors hold, would there be something wrong about anchoring his current harness (Sensible harness) to the cargo anchors while I await whatever travel harness that I'm ordering? I can anchor him in a down position, and hte harness is basically like the basic Ruffrider harness in quality, etc. I mean, is that better than nothing, or would I create even more damage if I didn't use the correct type of harness in the interim?

We do go out every evening for training (Goal is CGC certification before the year is over), and we have actual training on Wed evening...

UlrikeDG · Aug 13, 2007

As far as I know, none of the vehicle manufacturers sell a cargo barrier that is actually intended to keep people safe in a crash. To do that, they need to be mounted to the frame of the vehicle, not just pressure mounted inside the car. Check out the links in this post for more information about what to look for in barriers.

The Ruff Rider is tested to exceed the tensile strength of seatbelts for people. The IMMI harness is easier to use, IMO, but as far as safety is concerned, I trust the Ruff Rider as much as the IMMI harness (IMMI makes the buckles & straps for most US child restraints!). In fact, it bothers me that IMMI allows their harness to be connected to a single LATCH anchor with no listed weight limit. Child restraints are only allowed to use LATCH until 40-48 lb in most vehicles, and that's attaching to TWO lower anchor points!

I'm not familiar with the Sensible Harness. If this is the harness you have, I would not say that it's similar in quality to the Ruff Rider. I can see that the straps are much narrower than the straps on the Ruff Rider. Additionally, the straps on the Ruff Rider criss-cross, better distributing crash forces. Regardless, anchoring your dog to the cargo anchor would probably be better than nothing, and if I were in a situation where I didn't have another harness, that's what I would do.

Judi · Aug 13, 2007

Momto2whosews said:
Sadly, I don't think there is any product out there that would save her life in a crash (if there was, I'd have one) but at least this keeps her from being thrown into us.

:yeahthat:

tjham · Aug 14, 2007

I have two of these:

http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...4441779741&FOLDER<>folder_id=2534374302032883

I like them pretty well. I got them because I was not comfortable with the dog(s) loose next to my granddaughter in her carseat.

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 14, 2007

Well, so I called around yesterday afternoon and of course Volvo only knows about/promotes their own vehicle barriers, however, we just dropped 200+ on a Regent and I don't have $300 for a Volvo barrier right now...... but it's on my to-do list.....

Also, I called IMMI and I guess only ONE person could help me but she was in a meeting. I have no idea why the person answering the phone couldn't answer basic questions about their product (as in --- can I/how can I attach the safety belt in the cargo area). So they didn't impress me. I guess once I actually get a hold of them I may change my mind.

I emailed Ruffrider (after calling 5 times yesterday afternoon and nobody picking up) and they have yet to get back to me, which is annoying. Their voice mail didn't indicate they were on vacation or anything.

So last night when I took the dog to the park I took a short leash that I ahve and attached it to the cargo anchor (1 of 4) -- I looped it around, then attached it to hte dog's sensible harness (yes Ulrike, the link you posted is correct), and it worked like a charm!! He stayed down the whole trip back and forth (there was room for him to stand), and until I get my hands on something sturdier, I believe this is as safe as I can get him!

Oh, and Volvo is going to get back to me regarding the cargo anchor weights.....

fastdogs · Aug 14, 2007

I use crates strapped in with cargo straps. The only vehicle barriers that are safe are ones that are bolted to the vehicle- not pressure mounted. No matter how tightly installed, with any torque of the car's body the pressure mounted ones will come loose even without anything flying against them.
There was a german crash test involving pet restraints and two sizes of dog crash test dummies, but I can never find it any more.
vickie

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 14, 2007

fastdogs said:
I use crates strapped in with cargo straps. The only vehicle barriers that are safe are ones that are bolted to the vehicle- not pressure mounted. No matter how tightly installed, with any torque of the car's body the pressure mounted ones will come loose even without anything flying against them.
There was a german crash test involving pet restraints and two sizes of dog crash test dummies, but I can never find it any more.
vickie

I hear ya but I don't have $300 right now for a Volvo barrier....

Also, I saw the dog crash test dummies on either the ruffrider or the IMMI website yesterday when I was surfing around. Can't remember which one (or maybe another site? LOL! I DID see it, though).

They were also talking about how crates should not be used in a car, even though secured with a seat belt. Not sure about cargo straps though --- I think the point they were making is that it should be the DOG that should be strapped in -- not the crate the dog is in. I think the crate thing was on the Ruffrider website.

UlrikeDG · Aug 14, 2007

momtojoshua2002 said:
They were also talking about how crates should not be used in a car, even though secured with a seat belt. Not sure about cargo straps though --- I think the point they were making is that it should be the DOG that should be strapped in -- not the crate the dog is in. I think the crate thing was on the Ruffrider website.

Is the problem with strapping in a crate a safety issue for the dog or a safety issue to the other passengers? That is, will the crate prevent injuries to other passengers, or will it simply break apart sending both the dog and shards of plastic and metal flying through the vehicle?

momtojoshua2002 · Aug 14, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
Is the problem with strapping in a crate a safety issue for the dog or a safety issue to the other passengers? That is, will the crate prevent injuries to other passengers, or will it simply break apart sending both the dog and shards of plastic and metal flying through the vehicle?

What they said is that a dog that is not restrained can crash thru the crate (say thru the door) and thereby become a safety hazard. I'm sure if that happened a busted crate door may become a flying object as well.

A crash test done by Allianz Insurance Company in Germany shows debris flying freely in the test car after the dog crate exploded on impact. The crate was fastened securely in the vehicle with the seatbelt. The crate exploded because the "dummy dog" hit the inside of the crate with such extreme force that the crate opened up and the dog continued to fly out of the car. Remember that any loose object in the car is a potential unguided missile. The real question here should be, "is anyone safe in the car with a dog in a crate"?
http://www.ruffrider.com/why-crates-are-not-safe

Honestly, I have never thought of this in detail until now....

so I guess I need to start anchoring down the stroller in the cargo area too?.... holy crap! Total car makeover!!

(Where is Ty Pennington?

)

One question that I have in my head now is -- if we're into the whole "anything in the car can become an "unguided missile" (to quote from above), then how many people are driving around with strollers in teh back of Stationwagons and Vans and that stroller is not secured?? And for me, am I SAFER using ANY type of auto barrier rather than NO barrier?? (again, I have a station wagon). Is there anything I can do to my current barrier to make it "more secure" until I get a volvo one? (anchor it to the cargo anchors??)

I mean, here I go about DD being RF, but that may mean diddley squat if I have a stroller or barrier coming right at her....

UlrikeDG · Aug 14, 2007

We've had discussions before about how to secure strollers and the like in Wagons, Vans and SUVs. I use cargo straps. These are rated to some pretty high tensile strengths, and while I got mine online (I was overseas at the time), I've seen them at hardware stores locally.

Did you verify whether the Volvo barrier is pressure mounted or bolted in to the frame? If it's pressure mounted, it's a waste of money, IMO. Also be aware that using a cargo barrier often eliminates the ability to tether a front facing seat. Unless Volvo has changed their policy recently, you are not allowed to use a top tether with the Volvo barrier installed.

Is "any barrier better than no barrier?" Maybe in minor crashes, but it sounds like the barrier itself becomes a fairly dangerous projectile in more severe crashes, sending "shards" of broken barrier into the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

Unlike child restraints, we don't really have good Best Practice recommendations for pets and cargo. We know they should be "properly restrained," but what should that look like? We have few crash tests and no statistical data on the various options. Based on the information we *do* have, I want strollers and large items tied down with strong cargo straps. I want small items either netted or placed in a larger box and also tied down. Finally, I want my dog secured with a quality harness and either a seatbelt or a heavy duty carabiner attached to a cargo anchor that has been tested to an appropriate weight limit. However, it is very possible that a year or so down the road, we'll have more information that will change my mind on one or more of these requirements.

OT: Car safety for dog

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