Difference between ff'ing and rf'ing - my experience tonight.

We were out this evening, and I had a HUGE scare when I was driving...

I was going the speed limit - pretty much exactly the speed limit, maybe 1km over, and a driver decided to turn left directly in front of me. I anticipated that that's what was happening and slammed on the brakes. Our tires skidded, our anti-lock brakes kicked in big time, we went forward against our seat belts - everything seemed to move in slow motion... but I managed to stop in time. Thankfully the light turned yellow at the exact moment this all started, and we thankfully didn't end up getting rear ended ourselves probably from the other car starting to slow down at the same time...

I was practically in tears.. dd was scared - and ds laughed. Guess who was ff'ing and who was rf'ing - if you didn't already know my kids ages and see my siggy.

I don't think the driver who turned in front of us even realized we were coming. I still can't stop running through my head how if I'd braked even a half second later we would've t-boned that guy. Needless to say, it really shook me up. We're all fine, although I've got a sore wrist from gripping the steering wheel when the ABS kicked in.

I think we got away lucky... just feeling the force of going forward on the seatbelt from braking this hard and fast reminded me just how strong the force is when you go forward. And that no matter what you do, how much you follow the rules of the road and watch where you're going, sometimes other drivers do dumb things and you are physically unable to avoid a collision. Our truck is heavy and doesn't stop as fast as a car. I had a moment of thinking it was impossible for us to stop in time...

I know we all know this - heck, I know it and am anal about buckling the kids properly every single trip. But even for those of us who know it - reminders still make it all the more real about how important it is. The different reactions between the kids really also focused me in on how they each experienced it differently... ds was pressed against the back of his seat and probably didn't feel a whole lot, dd was pressed forward into her harness and I saw her head move forward slightly out of the corner of my eye. When we stopped, she had about 3 or 4" that her head was out from the seat... It's possible to say that forces like this - even without a collision, could seriously injure a child who is too young to face forward. But I'm betting there aren't any statistics on that.

Anyways, I don't have a real true point other than to say there is a huge difference, and for those who read and might not be truly convinced of the benefits of rf'ing, take this to heart. You don't have to be in a collision to experience the effects of ff'ing too early. My dd is 3, and this is how she experienced it... imagine a baby's or young toddler's neck.

I'm so glad you are all okay! I hate those kind of scares

Oh my

first off, good to hear that you avoided the accident!

snowbird25ca said:

I was practically in tears.. dd was scared - and ds laughed. Guess who was ff'ing and who was rf'ing - if you didn't already know my kids ages and see my siggy.

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i know we're all proponents of RFing, but do you think the difference in reaction from your two kiddos could have been simply because of their age difference? i know that our 13mo isn't scared of anything (nor was she at 9mo)... if we do something physically sudden with her she shreiks with delight. our almost 3yo, on the other hand, is scared of everything lately.

southpawboston said:

first off, good to hear that you avoided the accident!



i know we're all proponents of RFing, but do you think the difference in reaction from your two kiddos could have been simply because of their age? i know that our 13mo isn't scared of anything (nor was she at 9mo)... if we do something physically sudden with her she shreiks with delight. our almost 3yo, on the other hand, is scared of everything lately.

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I think this could've been a factor for ds... I know we've had not quite so sudden stops in the past when dd was rf'ing, and she was never ever phased. I know this one was definitely way stronger and more abrupt, but she obviously experienced it differently and I don't think she would've reacted much had she been rf'ing... she was obviously scared from the whole sensation because I didn't say anything until afterwards so it wasn't reflecting my reaction when she started to react... I'm thinking it was the sensation that made ds laugh - it was just like a big ride for him, you know? I don't think the shock factor played into it because it usually takes a few times of repeating something before he giggles from it...

No way to predict that for sure of course...

The somewhat funny thing is, that this was ds's first trip out in the MA, and dd's first trip in the Radian.

You know SPB, I often see you post about the importance of a safe vehicle too. I have to think without the safety features our truck has, I may not have had any chance of slowing that fast.

We're already wanting winter tires for this year, but every time I see your signature, it reminds me. I've just never thought to say that before..lol. But thanks anyways. It is good to keep other safety factors in mind too.

I'm glad you're okay (and not just because I'm coming for my seat check tomorrow). I am curious, if you were in the US (with higher RFing weight limits), would you still have DD RFing too?

We have winter tires for our car and it really does make a difference. I really think it's worth the money where we live. I'm trying to convince DH we should get them for our next vehicle too, but that one will have 4x4, so for some reason he needs more convincing.

shauburg said:

I'm glad you're okay (and not just because I'm coming for my seat check tomorrow). I am curious, if you were in the US (with higher RFing weight limits), would you still have DD RFing too?

We have winter tires for our car and it really does make a difference. I really think it's worth the money where we live. I'm trying to convince DH we should get them for our next vehicle too, but that one will have 4x4, so for some reason he needs more convincing.

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Absolutely, dd would still be rf'ing if she wasn't 30lbs. I'm actually planning to stick her on the scale tomorrow fully clothed and see if she's lost any weight with summer activities.

She's been ff'ing for just over 3 months now, but still calls ff'ing riding backwards.

I'm trying to convince my dh on the necessity of snow tires too. Every year when we have the worst roads I wish for snow tires and of course we don't have the money right that instant. So hopefully with a new truck this year, we'll make it happen.. I figure it'll extend the life of our current tires too, so that's an added bonus.

snowbird25ca said:

I figure it'll extend the life of our current tires too, so that's an added bonus.

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True. It's an expense up front, but instead of buying new all seasons say every 3 years, you can buy new all seasons and winters say every 6 years. So it works out close to the same in the end, unless winter tires for your vehicle are a lot more $ than all seasons. You do have to (or I highly recommend to) get rims for the winters, but you can get cheap steel ones.

oh my goodness! - I'm glad you're ok!

snowbird25ca said:

I think this could've been a factor for ds... I know we've had not quite so sudden stops in the past when dd was rf'ing, and she was never ever phased. I know this one was definitely way stronger and more abrupt, but she obviously experienced it differently and I don't think she would've reacted much had she been rf'ing... she was obviously scared from the whole sensation because I didn't say anything until afterwards so it wasn't reflecting my reaction when she started to react...

No way to predict that for sure of course...

The somewhat funny thing is, that this was ds's first trip out in the MA, and dd's first trip in the Radian.

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I'm so glad you're all Okay :thumbsup: Honestly, I think it might be a combo of ff & hitting the harness hard + Cognitive growth to realize that something was definitely not normal, for your daughter. DD was facing forward from 18 months and she didn't care much about Mommy's stops/go's until about 6 months ago, around 3 1/2.

Now she's a little back seat driver. Look, RED LIGHT means Stop! Go Mom, its Green. I've told her to be quiet on that, since a lot of times, I'm making a left in a non-arrow intersections. She's seen cars almost hit us and knows something is very scary when they get too close like that. They're intelligent observant creatures at this age. Don't underestimate their awareness.

As for winter tires -- Awesome choice! They're great and a true life saver. It's like gummy tires that really stick to the ground.

For another poster's dh -- just because a new vehicle is 4wd, doesn't mean it came stock with the best tires for traction. My truck was 4wd and until we got new tires, I had to put it in 4wd every single time it rained because the pretty tires were almost worthless.

shauburg said:

True. It's an expense up front, but instead of buying new all seasons say every 3 years, you can buy new all seasons and winters say every 6 years. So it works out close to the same in the end, unless winter tires for your vehicle are a lot more $ than all seasons. You do have to (or I highly recommend to) get rims for the winters, but you can get cheap steel ones.

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this is so true, and important to realize. it is an up-front expense, but it will even out over time becase you won't be using your summer (or all-season) tires while you have your winters on. the cheap rims are also an initial outlay of money, but over five years, it's minimal. consider it like a carseat investment. over the useable lifetime, it's pennies a day for a proven safety enhancement.

Morganthe said:

I'm so glad you're all Okay :thumbsup:
As for winter tires -- Awesome choice! They're great and a true life saver. It's like gummy tires that really stick to the ground.

For another poster's dh -- just because a new vehicle is 4wd, doesn't mean it came stock with the best tires for traction. My truck was 4wd and until we got new tires, I had to put it in 4wd every single time it rained because the pretty tires were almost worthless.

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YES YES YES, excellent point. the biggest mistake people make is thinking that they are "invinsible" with their 4WD or AWD vehicle. it is true that AWD increases your traction to accelerate since all four wheels are providing acceleration force as opposed to only 2 on a FWD car, but when it comes to braking and stopping, there is NO ADVANTAGE of AWD, since ALL cars stop with all four wheels. the ONLY advantage you can have in stopping in slippery conditions is to have the appropriate rubber between your vehicle and the ground. i'll take a FWD car with winter tires in the snow over a 4WD with all-seasons, any day. trust me, with my FWD car and snow tires, in the snow i can run circles around my older sister's subaru outback with crappy all-seasons.

Wow I'm so glad everyone is ok and you managed to stop in time! I had a bit of a scare too--I was going down a rural little farm road and somebody didn't look and backed out of thier driveway onto the road. I had to slam on the brakes and went into a little skid and DD1 was going "WHHHEEEEEEE!" from the backseat. Which reminds me, I need to get new tires and new brakes on my car...you never know when things like that can happen!

I'm so glad you are all okay. I know how scary that is, because that is just how my accident happened, only, I wasn't as lucky as you.

southpawboston said:

first off, good to hear that you avoided the accident!



i know we're all proponents of RFing, but do you think the difference in reaction from your two kiddos could have been simply because of their age difference? i know that our 13mo isn't scared of anything (nor was she at 9mo)... if we do something physically sudden with her she shreiks with delight. our almost 3yo, on the other hand, is scared of everything lately.

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Yes i wonder that too- also your DS didn't see anything that was happening either...
Glad you are all safe!!!!

Momto2BabyGirls said:

Wow I'm so glad everyone is ok and you managed to stop in time! I had a bit of a scare too--I was going down a rural little farm road and somebody didn't look and backed out of thier driveway onto the road. I had to slam on the brakes and went into a little skid and DD1 was going "WHHHEEEEEEE!" from the backseat. Which reminds me, I need to get new tires and new brakes on my car...you never know when things like that can happen!

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RFLOL!!!

I am so glad yall are ok.

I am so glad you're okay!

My RF 15month old gets scared when I stop fast, he's "sensitive" to everything meaning he crys very easy!

okay, i have to confess:

although i haven't been in an accident in 17 years and 100's of thousands of miles, i do like to drive "safely aggressive" or "aggressively but safe" on long, windy "driver" roads. that's why i have a mazda3 and not a minivan. i am most definitely a "zoom-zoom" driver. it's one of my pleasures in life as someone who used to auto-x but no longer has the time.

before DD1 began getting into her fearful stage (at around 2.5yo) she used to say "wheeeeeee" whenever i'd generate some g-forces around a turn. she'd say "faster, faster, daddy!" (especially on the switchbacks!). it was like a roller coaster for her. i noticed that she no longer cares for it. she doesn't complain, but she doesn't respond with glee, either. DD2, who is 13mo, doesn't even seem to notice.

slam me if you must for wanting to see people disappear in my rearview on twisty outback roads, but my driving record speaks for itself and for the record, i only do this on roads that i know like the back of my hand, and when visibility is not at all compromised and i can see any and all oncoming traffic.

southpawboston said:

slam me if you must for wanting to see people disappear in my rearview on twisty outback roads, but my driving record speaks for itself and for the record, i only do this on roads that i know like the back of my hand, and when visibility is not at all compromised and i can see any and all oncoming traffic.

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Did I mention we have a Speed3? It doesn't drive slow...

And, yes, we take the same precautions when having a little fun.

southpawboston said:

okay, i have to confess:

although i haven't been in an accident in 17 years and 100's of thousands of miles, i do like to drive "safely aggressive" or "aggressively but safe" on long, windy "driver" roads. that's why i have a mazda3 and not a minivan. i am most definitely a "zoom-zoom" driver. it's one of my pleasures in life as someone who used to auto-x but no longer has the time.

before DD1 began getting into her fearful stage (at around 2.5yo) she used to say "wheeeeeee" whenever i'd generate some g-forces around a turn. she'd say "faster, faster, daddy!" (especially on the switchbacks!). it was like a roller coaster for her. i noticed that she no longer cares for it. she doesn't complain, but she doesn't respond with glee, either. DD2, who is 13mo, doesn't even seem to notice.

slam me if you must for wanting to see people disappear in my rearview on twisty outback roads, but my driving record speaks for itself and for the record, i only do this on roads that i know like the back of my hand, and when visibility is not at all compromised and i can see any and all oncoming traffic.

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I thought you might be an old Auto-x person...

My husband misses his 91 Civic, he used to Auto-x that and LOVED it. My StepDad used to race Alpha Romeos, and both of them drive quite aggressively (Not ever being in an accident). I get WHIPLASH from driving with my Stepdad (my Grandma won't do it), My kids think my husband drives "crazy" even though, I am the "crazy" driver. They tell him all the time, that he is a crazy driver. He just loves driving a stick, and almost considered getting a minivan with a stick, but I did tell him to give up... (this minivan will be the first car we get with an auto transmission).