WHY don't people get it?

henrietta

Well-known member
Seriously. Serious questions here. We can't help parents make better choices if we don't really understand the reasons why they don't get it. Why don't they read the directions, the labels, the info we've given them (whether as a CPST or as an educated friend)? If you know you made mistakes before, and now you are resolving those issues, what were the reasons for the mistakes? I get that many are truly honest...I'm not sure I mean those (like accidentally forgetting to buckle your child in the seat and catching it as you pull out of the driveway), but the doozies, like not using top tethers if you have them, installing wrong, etc. etc. etc.

I know I can't save everyone or every child and I know that there are accidents that are just NOT surviveable or that there will be serious injuries no matter what. But why on earth are educated, otherwise rational parents, making incredibly stupid decisions regarding their kid's safety in the car every day?

What gives??

henrietta
 
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LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I think people really don't know how much they don't know.

They don't understand crash dynamics. They don't understand how seatbelts (or harnesses) need to fit to work properly. They don't realize that installing a seat isn't as simple as just making sure it doesn't fly out.

There are people who really truly don't understand it's a safety issue, and is just something to do because it's required, and it's required because legislators like to tell us how to parent.

There's also a lot of the "Look at me! I turned out fine!" mentality. Or the "But I'm a good driver" mentality.
 

Aurezalia

Well-known member
Because humans, as a whole - on a biological level - really aren't designed to understand statistics. It is natural for us to take a "it won't happen to me" approach when presented with the numbers. Why would you need to know, or learn to care, about how to properly use/install car seats when you truly believe it won't ever happen to you? Our brains naturally dismiss it as something that won't happen - so those of us in the minority, the ones here and the parents who aren't on CSO but are still "car seat people" - we are the ones bucking the natural trend.
I think the question to be asked is more of a "Why DO we get it?"

On a similar note, that's also why people have the OPPOSITE problem with statistics when it comes to child abductions and are over-cautious. But I won't get too far into that here. ;)
 

henrietta

Well-known member
Because humans, as a whole - on a biological level - really aren't designed to understand statistics. It is natural for us to take a "it won't happen to me" approach when presented with the numbers. Why would you need to know, or learn to care, about how to properly use/install car seats when you truly believe it won't ever happen to you? Our brains naturally dismiss it as something that won't happen - so those of us in the minority, the ones here and the parents who aren't on CSO but are still "car seat people" - we are the ones bucking the natural trend.
I think the question to be asked is more of a "Why DO we get it?"

On a similar note, that's also why people have the OPPOSITE problem with statistics when it comes to child abductions and are over-cautious. But I won't get too far into that here. ;)

True. I do wonder why we get it. I don't think I'm smarter than all of the good people I know. I'm just floored by all the things they DO get and how they can be so awesome, but then not understand the basic premise of how riding in the car is truely the most dangerous, most likely to kill or maim their child part of their life and to reduce or eliminate that possibility is EASY. Stupidly easy. Seat must be installed according to directions. Child must be in seat w/harness tightened. Viola!!! (Seriously, I do know that sometimes they are tough to install).

And I totally agree about the "opposite" problem. We won't let a kid out of our site for 16 seconds and stare down every stranger that even glances at our kids, yet 2 yr olds are in booster seats w/the lap belt routed over the armrests or the kids carseat isn't even installed at all ...

ugh.

henrietta
 

henrietta

Well-known member
I think people really don't know how much they don't know.

They don't understand crash dynamics. They don't understand how seatbelts (or harnesses) need to fit to work properly. They don't realize that installing a seat isn't as simple as just making sure it doesn't fly out.

There are people who really truly don't understand it's a safety issue, and is just something to do because it's required, and it's required because legislators like to tell us how to parent.

There's also a lot of the "Look at me! I turned out fine!" mentality. Or the "But I'm a good driver" mentality.

I think that's it--that's the crux of it--people don't really know how much they don't know. And maybe a touch of "you can't tell me how to parent MY kid". Funny how the doc says to give tons of vax together, many parents ask no questions of these processes and just do it b/c "they have to"...yet, even if the law says to use a carseat properly, they buck it. I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't vax your kid, just that many people don't question much of anything, but if you bring up the safety of their kids in the car, they'll fight tooth and nail to tell you how dumb that is. :confused:

henrietta
 

katymyers

Active member
LISmama810 said:
I think people really don't know how much they don't know.

They don't understand crash dynamics. They don't understand how seatbelts (or harnesses) need to fit to work properly. They don't realize that installing a seat isn't as simple as just making sure it doesn't fly out.

There are people who really truly don't understand it's a safety issue, and is just something to do because it's required, and it's required because legislators like to tell us how to parent.

There's also a lot of the "Look at me! I turned out fine!" mentality. Or the "But I'm a good driver" mentality.

That's the one I hear all the time "I turned out fine or my kids turned out fine". I always wonder about the kids that WEREN'T fine, the ones that didn't make it. They aren't around anymore to tell you you're wrong.
 

Jan06twinmom

New member
I have at least one friend who believes that it's in God's hands.

I definitely think that there is a lot of people who don't know what they don't know. If you see something is wrong or try to provide information, they don't think it's important to do anything different.
 

MommyShannon

New member
katymyers said:
That's the one I hear all the time "I turned out fine or my kids turned out fine". I always wonder about the kids that WEREN'T fine, the ones that didn't make it. They aren't around anymore to tell you you're wrong.

That drives me crazy too. I'm fine, but we were never in any crashes! I would be fine if I'd never buckled too but that doesn't make it ok to not be prepared for the future!

I for one thought I had "info" and was doing well. I did better than what I often see, but I did turn my older two at 1 without a thought. They were installed well and buckled correctly. I'm a bit of a safety nut and still didn't really know about ERF even with my 6 and 4 year olds. I knew seTat minimums and the law and pediatricians said 1 and 20 lbs. I think I knew the difference in forces ff vs rf, but b/c of all that guidance I thought at 1 and 20 it was safe and their bodies are prepared at that age. Now I know that doesn't happen until later.
 

Ellie173

New member
I think some people are so terrified to admit that they did it wrong that they won't change anything. I am around people who have taken physics, have an amazing grasp of statistics, and have seen what happens to people in car crashes, but yet they cannot admit that they used their car seats incorrectly. They have all the facts, but for the parents I see it seems like a "well if we change now, what will everyone say after we have given them advise to do what we do?"

For educated people it seems like they just got a bad test score and they still won't go to a teacher or tutor for help; they just want to figure it out on their own rather than admit that their knowledge failed them somewhere. I am not a tech but I am around a lot of very educated people, that has been my observation.

As a society I think we are so often being told that we are not good enough or not doing things correctly that we just brush it off. We are so socially driven that the consequences of our decisions don't phase us so long as they are in the norm. If something like ERF was the social norm then there would be many fewer people who put up a fight because then they wouldn't have to explain themselves. It still doesn't make things acceptable though to just live within the social norms of a society when it means endangering your child, and it perpetuates the problem.
 

monica-m

CPST Instructor
It's a big lack of education of the importance. People just don't put it together on their own. Yesterday at our check station we had an 8 month old come in riding in an uninstalled, forward facing, crashed Discovery with the straps loosely over his shoulders but not buckled. Mom just didn't have a clue. We had a program seat for her and once she learned what she was supposed to do and WHY, she was quite upset about how he had been riding.
 

atw

New member
I think it's less people not being governed by stats and more not thinking of themselves as stats. ;) biologically, we are very driven by statistics and constantly making decisions and calculating likelihoods, heck it's how we learn language.

Hubris, on the other hand? That's a different story.

I'm a manual reader but am not good with pictures. We were borrowing center LATCH "illegally" and that's when I realized I don't know anything despite being careful and reading manuals. My dad is similar, and he too borrowed latches in the center. He also read all the directions and followed manual, but didn't check the car manual...things like that. I have to say were thorough, but there's a lot to know about car safety. The manuals are overwhelming, and if i say so myself, we are both smarter than the average bear :)

However, I'm happy to have people correct me or send me info-as is he-but we're the minority there. I know that. But honestly, this info is hard to manage. Cars differ, seats differ....Lots of rules before even an understanding of physics can come into play...
 

jacqui276

New member
I frequently hear from people the "I turned out fine" line. I admit that I did all kinds of things wrong with my daughter when she was little because I just didn't know any better. I had her straps buckled in all the time (and snugly) and had her seat seat belted and tethered in but her chest clip wasn't generally high enough, she wore puffy coats, and I turned her to FFing at a year old because she was above and beyond 20lbs. She also started boostering just before she turned 4 because she was above and beyond her seat's 40lbs weight limit and I'm not sure if seats even existed beyond that back then other than maybe some that were well beyond my price range (I was a student on a limited income at the time so didn't look too hard). Thankfully I have never been in a car accident with my daughter in the car.

With my son, I feel like I have a lot more knowledge now so am hopefully doing everything a lot safer. When I had him, I thought that I was doing everything right but after getting more into car seat safety after he was in a car accident with me where we were hit by someone going fairly high speed, I realized that there were still things that I could improve on. Thankfully his seat was installed quite well and he was in there snugly so was completely uninjured, but there was still a bit of room for improvement.

I have made the odd comment to a friend lightly when I notice something very obvious (straps being way below shoulders on a FFing seat, chest clip way too low, straps VERY loose) and often they just laugh it off and don't really correct the issue.. I never had anybody tell me that I was doing anything wrong so I'm not sure how I would react, but I would like to think that I would have corrected my ways if it was pointed out to me.

I think one of the biggest issues is that people don't like being told that they are doing something wrong, especially when it comes to anything involving parenting! There are also a lot of people who are just uneducated and unaware and maybe would do well if someone noticed and recommended a better way of doing it.
 

Mysweethoneybee

New member
Okay the things I did wrong:
My now 17 year old was in an evenflo joyride and we were in a crash. He slept through it and I used the joyride for another month before he outgrew it. Later I came across the manual and it didn't say anything about what to do when the seat was in a crash. Then he used a 5 point harness seat rear facing but back then the seat belt went over the legs and so when he was one year and 20lbs I turned him around because where the seat belt went across the seat it didn't allow his legs to bend at the knee and it was difficult to stuff a screaming kid into a place where his legs didn't fit. Then when he reached 40lbs he had to go into a booster. When he hit the weight limit for the booster he was in nothing.
So my problems there were lack of knowledge and lack of options.

With my youngest his size has been a problem. He is 4.5 and just below 50inches tall. Most of it is torso. I just haven't had the options.
I was using the Monterey without a headrest behind it. One car doesn't have headrests that raise up and one car just isn't compatible with the Monterey. I just misunderstood.

But I have friends that really believe it is all in God's hands and so they just do what the law requires. I also have friends that believe if 4 year olds needed something more than a nbb then the law would be different.

Then I know people that just don't care.
 

cowgirlsmommy

New member
I think too many people see car seat use as a parental decision and not a safety issue. They see it among the lines of whether to start cereal or baby food first, which coat is better in the fall, etc. Usually when I catch someone making a mistake, if they get defensive, they tell me that they will raise their child the way they want.
 

cake...

New member
I don't get it either. I have an acquaintance who is one of the most conscientious, dedicated parents I know. She is very attuned to her kids' safety. And yet, she doesn't give a flying flip about car seat safety. The 3.5yo rides with a seat belt only and has since he was about 2 or 2.5. The 2yo either rides with a seatbelt only or in an expired Britax bought off Craigslist that's not properly installed. Oh, and either kid will occasionally ride in the front seat passenger's lap. :mad:

I just don't understand her.

One of the biggest issues I see with the parents I know is not tightening the harness. Especially on tiny babies. I've seen harness straps so loose that I could put my entire fist under the strap.

When my DS was a baby both my mother and my mother in law were horrified that I actually tightened his harness straps. They also, especially my MIL, gave me a lot of grief about extended rearfacing.
 

Jessica61624

New member
desisue0131 said:
Maybe TIME should put it on the cover :p
Get someone talking about it!!

A erf 5 year old would cause panic!

I think a lot of bad info is passed down from mom to daughter. In this day and age women(girls) are having babies much younger. I had my first at 17. My mom was only 40 and my brother was 4. Since she had a younger child I assumed she knew about car seats. I had also been installing my brothers car seat for almost 2 years at that point. I knew it needed to be tight. I was taught by my mom to use a locking clip on lap/shoulder belts on the opposite side of the latch plate. We had latch in all the cars so we usually used that. I can't remember if we used the top tethers. I was looking at pictures from when DD was about 2 and her TT was in use.

DD was one of those babies that cried in the car constantly. She was about 7 months old and we moved from va to wa. It was going to be a long drive and I wanted to turn her FF so she wouldn't cry the entire week we were going to be in the car. I remember asking my mom why they have to rf and she had no idea. So I turned her and she stayed that way.
 

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