No faith in new CPST?

CRS

Senior Community Member
Before I start, I'd just like to say that this is not (HUGE emphasis on the NOT) aimed at anyone specifically, it really isn't.

Over the past few months I've been noticing quite a lot of negativity towards the new CPS curriculum (brought in in June) and that some people seem to think those trained under this new curriculum, have little to no competency to install car seats/give advice compared to those who sat the older course. Though I can't say which is better or worse, I have only ever sat the "new" course, I guess which course is better then the other is subjective...

With comments I've seen from other CPST saying they wouldn't let anyone under the new course install their car seat and just basically, picking holes at the new course... then surely if this new course is training up a whole lot of technicians that aren't terribly competent and aren't fit to install car seats - then CPS is doomed forever?

As someone who HAS sat the new curriculum I must admit I find it a little unsettling that because of this, maybe some people wont take what I say seriously because I didn't sit the old course (I'm sure some others feel this way). What makes someone better that's sat the old one, then me who has sat the new one?

I'm not saying the CPST should toot each others horns, there are always improvements to be made (and from what I have heard, the old course wasn't the bees knees either) But, shouldn't we all put a little more faith in to the new CPST instead of demoralising them or suggesting they have received sub-standard education? Turn back 3-4 months ago and had I heard all this negativity towards the new curriculum, I might never have flown 9hours, 4390 miles just to become a Technician. I know some might find that "overkill" but boy, I tell you I am SO glad that I went. The people I met, the experience, the EDUCATION was GREAT! And with what I learnt at the course, I can in turn help so many others...

I guess what I'm saying is, please have a little faith in the new curriculum. It can be demoralising for us new techs when comments like the above are made. Think what it would be like if we didn't have CPST at all!

:love:*LOVE, HUGZ and all that jazz*:love:

Hope I don't offend! None of this :fencing:please! LOL
 
ADS

lynsgirl

New member
Before I start, I'd just like to say that this is not (HUGE emphasis on the NOT) aimed at anyone specifically, it really isn't.

Over the past few months I've been noticing quite a lot of negativity towards the new CPS curriculum (brought in in June) and that some people seem to think those trained under this new curriculum, have little to no competency to install car seats/give advice compared to those who sat the older course. Though I can't say which is better or worse, I have only ever sat the "new" course, I guess which course is better then the other is subjective...

With comments I've seen from other CPST saying they wouldn't let anyone under the new course install their car seat and just basically, picking holes at the new course... then surely if this new course is training up a whole lot of technicians that aren't terribly competent and aren't fit to install car seats - then CPS is doomed forever?

As someone who HAS sat the new curriculum I must admit I find it a little unsettling that because of this, maybe some people wont take what I say seriously because I didn't sit the old course (I'm sure some others feel this way). What makes someone better that's sat the old one, then me who has sat the new one?

I'm not saying the CPST should toot each others horns, there are always improvements to be made (and from what I have heard, the old course wasn't the bees knees either) But, shouldn't we all put a little more faith in to the new CPST instead of demoralising them or suggesting they have received sub-standard education? Turn back 3-4 months ago and had I heard all this negativity towards the new curriculum, I might never have flown 9hours, 4390 miles just to become a Technician. I know some might find that "overkill" but boy, I tell you I am SO glad that I went. The people I met, the experience, the EDUCATION was GREAT! And with what I learnt at the course, I can in turn help so many others...

I guess what I'm saying is, please have a little faith in the new curriculum. It can be demoralising for us new techs when comments like the above are made. Think what it would be like if we didn't have CPST at all!

:love:*LOVE, HUGZ and all that jazz*:love:

Hope I don't offend! None of this :fencing:please! LOL

NOTE: I speak only for myself, no one else :D.

I don't think all new technicians are sub-standard or educated badly. Not at all. The human element still exists - there are great instructors and there are not-so-great instructors. Great instructors are going to do their best to turn out great techs, regardless of the curriculum they're given to work with. Not-so-great instructors may have the passion for CPS that we have here (and at other great CPS forums) or they may not.

The changes in the curriculum are not all great, but I believe you sat through a course that included Charles Hirata (sp?), right? He is an involved and up-to-date CPST-I, as far as I know. My own course was obviously with the "old" curriculum and I had 4 instructors (one was an instructor-candidate). My SafeKids coordinator was the best instructor of all of them. She is a super tech and an awesome instructor! The cop and the fireman that were 2 of the other instructors were NOT people I think should be doing this. They were "bare minimum" in their mentality and in their teaching, bashed "expensive seats" as "totally unnecessary," among other things. The majority of the people in my class are not people I'd feel comfortable with installing *anyone's* seats, never mind my own. I believe the same will be true for people taking the new class. There will be a few spectacular techs that emerge from each class and most of the class will *not* be there because they love CPS and have a passion. Obviously, you DO (you put out more than most of us "just a mom" techs do to get there!) and obviously lots of us here are the same way.

The changes in the curriculum are not all good, but change was necessary. I hope they continue to work with this, as they get feedback from instructors and from tech students. Adapting and revising are things I hope happen :).

You didn't offend me at all, even though I am not 100% in love with all the curriculum changes :p. I think it doesn't matter what changes there were - if you were there with a passion to learn and to help educate others, you're going to come away with a LOT and you were already waaaaaay ahead of the game in terms of being a great tech before you got there :love:.
 

rlsadc

Senior Community Member
I don't think all new technicians are sub-standard or educated badly. Not at all. The human element still exists - there are great instructors and there are not-so-great instructors.


ill let you speak for me too :D
 

CRS

Senior Community Member
The human element still exists - there are great instructors and there are not-so-great instructors. Great instructors are going to do their best to turn out great techs, regardless of the curriculum they're given to work with. Not-so-great instructors may have the passion for CPS that we have here (and at other great CPS forums) or they may not.

:yeahthat: ITA, that's a very good post!

My question is though, what necessarily makes someone who did the old course - better then someone who took the new one? Undeniably there are some technicians that will be better then others and there will be some technicians that don't really care for being a CPST and just do it because they have to. But is it the education they receive that makes them a "bad" tech or is it because of the reasons outlined in the above I quoted from you :) (FYI I don't mean YOU you, I mean "you guys" IYKWIM lol)

What really is so bad about this new course compared to the old one - how has it changed? My instructor and the instructor candidate that were there, seemed to welcome the change (said a lot of stuff esp about how to conduct a seat check was left out). And, ever since I started posting on car-seat.org I've always seen lots of horror stories about "bad" techs (trained under the old curriculum). And I guess I can't really talk, because I DIDN'T sit the old one, but I don't really see how each is better or worse then the other?


rant over..
LOL
 

lynsgirl

New member
:yeahthat: ITA, that's a very good post!

My question is though, what necessarily makes someone who did the old course - better then someone who took the new one? Undeniably there are some technicians that will be better then others and there will be some technicians that don't really care for being a CPST and just do it because they have to. But is it the education they receive that makes them a "bad" tech or is it because of the reasons outlined in the above I quoted from you :) (FYI I don't mean YOU you, I mean "you guys" IYKWIM lol)

What really is so bad about this new course compared to the old one - how has it changed? My instructor and the instructor candidate that were there, seemed to welcome the change (said a lot of stuff esp about how to conduct a seat check was left out). And, ever since I started posting on car-seat.org I've always seen lots of horror stories about "bad" techs (trained under the old curriculum). And I guess I can't really talk, because I DIDN'T sit the old one, but I don't really see how each is better or worse then the other?


rant over..
LOL

Hmm, I know what my head says about this, but getting it out in type-format is somewhat different hehehe. I think I will see if any of our great instructors around here that I know have done the new curriculum now can or will comment on this. :)
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
I took the last course before the recent curriculum change: I can honestly say that what I learned there consisted of how to better communicate with people about proper use face-to-face.... That's basically it since all the academic stuff I learned here as well as some nice tips-n-tricks :whistle: Based on the workshop update for the new curriculum, I like the changes! Techs need to stop thinking of themselves as "installers/servicers" & start seeing themselves as EDUCATORS (how does it help the parents if the only one who can correctly install a carseat is the tech?) The changes seem to really emphasize this, but as always there is that *human element* of either having enough dedication or not :eek:
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
I agree with you totally that the curriculum changes do not make a tech better or worse than someone who took an older course. I have been at this a very long time. Stephanie Trombello was the coordinator for my class. I have since sat every revision of the curriculum. When I get the chance, I will sit AS A STUDENT, the new curriculum. I have done this every time the curriculum has changed. The original curriculum in '97 was much more complex than it is now. Every revision things get cut. Some of these things I miss. One thing I miss greatly miss was something the instructors did in my original class. At the very end of the class, the instructors one by one told about a child who they missed somehow. There was a picture in the original curriculum of a little girl in a bathing suit laying on the road. One of the instructors in the class was the cop that took that photo. Earlier that same day, the cop had stopped the mother for not having the girl's baby sister in a seat. Since this was Texas, and the law there only requirer children to be in seats until 18 months old, the cop didn't feel like he had the right to insist the family buckle up the 4 year old also. They drove away, crashed, and he was the first on the scene. Another instructor did a check for a 15 yr old mom, but didn't insist the grandmother, who was the licensed driver and who had the child most of the time, stay and watch. A few months later, the grandmother crashed and the little boy was killed. Another instructor held her tongue with her best friend. After each instructor told their story, the cop stood up again. He said something to us then that has stuck with me ever since. He said "If you do this, if you take this test and pass it, and do the job the way it is supposed to be done, you'll have your own story to tell one day. It will rip your heart out, but someday, you will have thought you did everything you thought you could do, and a child will die anyway. The only way you'll be able to live with yourself is if you can truelly say that you did the best you can do for that family. Then, you will do everything in your power to make sure it never happens again." We had to take the test right after that. It was very hard. Some people backed out at that point because they realized that was not a responsibility they wanted to have. Those of us who were left, couldn't take it lightly though, it was no longer a game, or a hobby, or just one more job requirement. One of the guys in the class went is now working for Combi. Another was the state CPS controller for Florida for awhile. I have not made a huge name for myself like some of my classmates, that's okay, I never wanted to. I am a good tech, and I'm a good educator. Not because I took the early info-crammed edition of the class, or because I have been at it a long time, but because someone said the thing that I just couldn't ignore.

FWIW, I approve of the new curriculum. I think that the whole program was so intense that it gave parents the impression that they could not keep their kids safe unless they took the 4 day class. What is in the curriculum will take a back seat however to what is really being taught. If the instructors take this thing we do seriously,if they reach the students, the students will become good techs. If they don't, most won't. As an example, The last class I taught, one of the instructors gave out a piece of advice that would actually constitute gross misuse of a seat. When I asked him to correct it, he said, and I quote "It's not like they will remember half of what I say anyway, it's no big deal" I butted heads with him on this right up to the last day of class, finally I had to let him know that if he didn't correct the thing he told the class to do, that I would report the incident to AAA (governing body at the time). He did, grudgingly, correct himself on the issue. However, the whole incident really got to me. I stepped away from teaching and just in the last year have I been able to go back to it. I feel I did the only thing I could do in the situation, but that is not the way it is supposed to be. Everyone is supposed to care as much as I do right?

Well it's been a hard fall, realizing that everyone doesn't. It took a lot of time and a lot of perspective to be able to see that the the only difference between that instructor and I, is that someone took the time to give me a reason to care. Someone got through to me. My job is not just to check seats, or teach classes. My job is to figure out how to GET THROUGH to as many people as I can. That doesn't mean I'm out there pushing people as hard as I can. That only works for a very few people. It means I pay attention. The time I spend in the car with a parent, or mentoring a new tech, or at the front of the classroom, is my time to make a difference.

The people who haunt this board are here because they feel the same way. But it is important to realize that not everyone does. Helping that to change is part of the job.

For the record, I have never, that I know of, lost a child whose seat I have checked. I have had several that were in really bad wrecks, one the day after I strong armed the mother of my dd's classmate, who kept saying she wanted her seat checked, but that her car was too messy. I have had a parent who refused to let me check a seat for her newborn even though her older child had died in a wreck the day her baby was born.

I know it's only a matter of time though. I will fight to keep it from happening with every fiber of my being, but it will happen. When it does, I will question if I did enough, try to think of a corner I may have unthinkingly cut, wonder where I went wrong, and blame myself. I have nightmares about it. This is the reality I have accepted. Some techs don't understand this. I hope they don't find out the hard way. I'll save the ones I can, and pray for the rest. Maybe some of the people here on this board will save the ones I can't get through to.

Kimberly
 

CRS

Senior Community Member
Wow Kimberly... words fail me. Thank you so much for posting that it really did touch my heart... I just don't know what to say except THANK YOU.







just secretly.. you almost made me cry.. LOL shhhhhhh
 

ignora

Senior Community Member
Wow Kimberly... words fail me. Thank you so much for posting that it really did touch my heart... I just don't know what to say except THANK YOU.


just secretly.. you almost made me cry.. LOL shhhhhhh

Yeah, me too... sniff, sniff.
 

ignora

Senior Community Member
Gosh I'll say! :crying:Man I keep reading it over and over and over. Those words are going to stay with me FOREVER.

Yeah, me too. I just signed up for my certification class TONIGHT... and now I'm scared! After reading that, I sure hope I'm good at it or I don't know if I could take the chance of a child being hurt or dying. Wow... sniff, sniff...
 

thepeach80

Senior Community Member
I took the old class and there are techs from my class I don't trust as far as I can throw them. :( I think part of this is b/c even w/ the 4.5 day class (we did Mon afternoon and then T-F all day) it's a lot to learn if you have no real experience w/ carseats. I was blessed in that I had seen a tech before and had been here and other places and knew a lot going into my class, so it wasn't much to learn. I know they've taken out a lot of the stuff that isn't really carseat related, but that's also limiting the # of days for hands on activities as well which I think more techs need. Maybe w/ the new curriculum we need to have a tech go to so many checks before they become a tech? I don't know, like anything else I guess, there's good ones and bad ones. The old joke is what do they call the guy who graduates last from med school, doctor.

ETA: I'm hopefully sitting in on class on Wed for my last CEU so I guess I'll see then. I think the same people who taught me are doing this one too. I LOVE them!
 

sirrahn

Active member
I don't know the details about the new curriculum, but if it's emphasizing education over installation, it sounds wonderful to me!

I was certified I guess about 6 years ago and did not renew the last time I came up for it, because of my extreme frustration that every event I worked seemed to be run as a get 'em in and get 'em out deal.

Every time I tried to talk about extended rearfacing or suggest that the booster probably wasn't the best option for the 40lb 2.5 yr old (or 30 lb 4 yr old), I was brushed off or overruled. I worked with techs telling parents ridiculous things about LATCH not being safe and well, I could go on and on.....

I loved the ideal of being a tech, but the reality for me at least was far from it....

Now I spend my weekends with my own kids, try to help friends who are interested (and pray for those who aren't) and spend a little time here when I have the chance to be reminded that it's not that way everywhere;)
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
I agree with you totally that the curriculum changes do not make a tech better or worse than someone who took an older course.
********
The original curriculum in '97 was much more complex than it is now. Every revision things get cut. Some of these things I miss. One thing I miss greatly miss was something the instructors did in my original class. At the very end of the class, the instructors one by one told about a child who they missed somehow. .......After each instructor told their story, the cop stood up again. He said something to us then that has stuck with me ever since......We had to take the test right after that. It was very hard. Some people backed out at that point because they realized that was not a responsibility they wanted to have. Those of us who were left, couldn't take it lightly though, it was no longer a game, or a hobby, or just one more job requirement. ...... I have not made a huge name for myself like some of my classmates, that's okay, I never wanted to. I am a good tech, and I'm a good educator........because someone said the thing that I just couldn't ignore.
............

If the instructors take this thing we do seriously,if they reach the students, the students will become good techs. If they don't, most won't........ Everyone is supposed to care as much as I do right?

Well it's been a hard fall, realizing that everyone doesn't. It took a lot of time and a lot of perspective to be able to see that the the only difference between that instructor and I, is that someone took the time to give me a reason to care. Someone got through to me. My job is not just to check seats, or teach classes. My job is to figure out how to GET THROUGH to as many people as I can.

..............
The people who haunt this board are here because they feel the same way. But it is important to realize that not everyone does. Helping that to change is part of the job.
Kimberly


Exactly. Maybe one day the people doing this who do not wish to do it will step up and realize we're not just anal retentives with agendas to push. :(

every event I worked seemed to be run as a get 'em in and get 'em out deal.

Every time I tried to talk about extended rearfacing or suggest that the booster probably wasn't the best option for the 40lb 2.5 yr old (or 30 lb 4 yr old), I was brushed off or overruled.

************

Sadly, that has been my experience as well. Unfortunately, my county no longer has ANY official checks. Some of the community has stepped up and has the state come in, but that doesn't address a fraction of the needs I see.
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
I have no issues with the a CPST that took the new or old cirriculum. I will have issues with either if they are giving out bad information to a parent. There are always those techs that have been strong armed into taking the class and don't want to be there. Those are the ones we need to worry about the most. That doesn't matter what cirriculum they have taken.

My only issue with the new cirriculum is them removing the "best practice". I am glad they are pushing more on education of the parents but at the end of the day if the parent still can't install their seat there is still a problem. These new techs do need more hands on b/c that is where you learn properly installation and all the ticks. I personally think any new tech needs time under their belt before they are just thrown out there to help parents. I know I needed all the experiance I could get when I first started and I knew how to install a carseat properly before I got certified from seeing CPST in the past. Just think of those new techs that have never touched a carseat before that class. SCARY!

So, No I don't think any differently on which cirriculum a tech has taken it all about the tech and their willingness to want to keep learning & make a differance. That is what makes a good tech.
 

CRS

Senior Community Member
My only issue with the new cirriculum is them removing the "best practice".

Maybe it just depends on what instructor you get? Mine drummed it in to our heads best practice, best practice, best practice. Best practice is keeping kids RF for as long as possible, keeping kids harnessed for as long as possible (yes even in HWH seats), best practice is keeping kids in boosters till 4fft 9". It was DRUMMED in to our heads :)
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
Maybe it just depends on what instructor you get? Mine drummed it in to our heads best practice, best practice, best practice. Best practice is keeping kids RF for as long as possible, keeping kids harnessed for as long as possible (yes even in HWH seats), best practice is keeping kids in boosters till 4fft 9". It was DRUMMED in to our heads :)

Yes, That is true it depends on the instructors you get and yes we too drum it in but that may not be the case anymore. I mean look at what happened to Melissa with her instructors. They tried to hang her out to dry on rf tethering her Britax seats. Prime example that "best practice" shouldn't have been removed from the cirriculum period. There is a high chance that from here on out these instructors will only go by the book and not teach "best practice".

Also remember you can't really go off your experiance due to who was "your" instructor.
 

CRS

Senior Community Member
Also remember you can't really go off your experiance due to who was "your" instructor.

Why? There were three instructors there and a instructor candidate, they all pretty much said the same thing.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
There is a high chance that from here on out these instructors will only go by the book and not teach "best practice".

Also remember you can't really go off your experiance due to who was "your" instructor.


Exactly. I had an instructor tell me he hated the new recertification requirements because in his opinion the "average technician" didn't need to know ANY of these things. they ONLY (in his opinion) needed the barest minimums. He does not recommend Best Practice, and only does the legal minimum.
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
Why? There were three instructors there and a instructor candidate, they all pretty much said the same thing.

Bonnie,

I am not trying to debate you here. I am merely saying your main instructor is pretty big in the CPS world. Do you really think those other instructors are going to go against his line of thinking?

I am merely saying they shouldn't have removed the "best practice" out of the cirriculum. Not saying this is going to make new techs bad techs at all. I am just saying this could lead to some new techs not getting the information they should get. Does that make them a bad tech. NO! As long as they follow the manufacture instructions. NO WAY are they bad techs.

Again, It's all in the instructors and who is or is not going to go against the new cirriculum. There are going to be some that choice to not go against it and some that will add what they feel these new techs should know to help educate the parents better.
 

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