Sweden car seats.

lourdes · Apr 14, 2012

Doing some research about rear facing for a friend I found videos about Sweden car seats and I notice that when they
Install some car seats they don't install them touching the seat back, and they put more effort in the tightness of the rear facing latch than the seat belt, I didn't understand why, so I know that some of you here have this car seats and maybe can explain to me more about this car seat installation methods

xursusmaritimusx · Apr 14, 2012

scratch my thought, i thought you meant the back of the seat that the car seat is installed on.... not the front

lourdes · Apr 14, 2012

I was watching installation videos, some of them have the anti rebound bar but others like the multi tech or the combi didn't and still when installing it was not touching the vehicle seat back

newyorkDOC · Apr 14, 2012

The tethers are the rebound bar so to speak. If the seat braces, like the TWE, the front seat serves to prevent downward rotation. Same as the foot prop in the MT. The tethers prevent rebound towards the seat back and are absolutely essential to the proper function of the seat. I think they also play a design role in allowing the seats to be installed farther away from the seat back thus allowing RF to older ages (5/6 yo).

lourdes · Apr 15, 2012

Will the child be at risk of crouching the legs in a accident if it has the legs in the gap??????

penguingrooves · Apr 16, 2012

lourdes said:
Will the child be at risk of crouching the legs in a accident if it has the legs in the gap??????

gap?? when you refer to 'seat back,' do you mean the back of the front seat which is used for bracing seats (e.g., two-way elite or brio zento), or do you mean the back of the seat the carseat is installed in (i.e., back of the rear seat the child sees if RFing in the carseat)?

either way, i'm not sure what gap you are referring to because the multi-tech's front edge touches the back of the backseat. it may look like a gap because a multi-tech has a flippable plate at the bottom which extends a few inches from the front edge of the carseat. also, the rear tethers are pulled tightly, much tighter than simply taking the slack out like US tethering. i also can't imagine a child's legs getting into any potential gap because that space isn't that big or doesn't exist. but i would hope the anti-rebounding measures (bracing, tethering, etc) would prevent the carseat from slamming into the back of the rear seat like a murphy bed.

ketchupqueen · Apr 16, 2012

Ok, so there are a lot of Swedish seats. Some can be installed pulled away from the seat back; some cannot. Some have an anti-rebound bar. Some have a foot prop while some use bracing. Pretty much all utilize tethers.

The manuals I've read do usually instruct to install "tightly" without "excess slack" in the seatbelt (when I'm installing, I take that to mean less than 1" at the belt path!) and the seatbelt is locked (unlike some Australian seats which don't require locking at all...) either by an attached clip or a built-in lockoff, usually.

ALL slack is meant to be pulled out of the tethers- you're supposed to tighten them as much as you can. If a foot prop is present it must also be tightly pressed down.

But when you read the European standard you see that really, not much movement is allowed in any direction compared to many other world standards. So, you're not going to see the kind of rebound in a Swedish seat that you are in a US seat- they just aren't designed the same way and have different ways they utilize to dissipate forces. (Both standards are SAFE, they are just designed to work in different ways and to produce results measured by different criteria.)

lourdes · Apr 16, 2012

I am talking about the gap in the area were the kids feet are going to be, in the videos of different seats (including the multi tech) they left a gap between the back of the back seat and the bottom of the car seat, there are other seats that left a much bigger gap and in those seats I think my DD feet fit.

Are there any crash test videos from them???

_juune · Apr 16, 2012

lourdes said:
Are there any crash test videos from them???

Quite many videos, just search youtube. For example: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGIwNClo3To"]MultiTech[/ame], [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIeA4vsthaE"]TwoWay[/ame], [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFqENW_lroQ"]iziKid[/ame] [my daughter rides in a seat similar to the iziKid, and being 2.5 years old she can't really put her feet very far down the "gap"].

Kac · Apr 16, 2012

I'm not worried about broken legs on any RFing seat. I'd rather a child come out with a broken leg than a broken neck FFing. Plus, to my knowledge there aren't any documented cases of children breaking their legs RFing, but there are documentations of broken legs and necks FFing.

lourdes · Apr 16, 2012

Kac said:
I'm not worried about broken legs on any RFing seat. I'd rather a child come out with a broken leg than a broken neck FFing. Plus, to my knowledge there aren't any documented cases of children breaking their legs RFing, but there are documentations of broken legs and necks FFing.

I am not worried about a broken leg when they are bend but a couple of car seats had a bigger gap but what you said makes sense, if there aren't any documented cases of children breaking their legs RF then that's not a problem

lourdes · Apr 16, 2012

_juune said:
Quite many videos, just search youtube. For example: Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGIwNClo3To, Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIeA4vsthaE, Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFqENW_lroQ [my daughter rides in a seat similar to the iziKid, and being 2.5 years old she can't really put her feet very far down the "gap"].

Thanks for the videos! It makes more sense when you are watching it!

jeminijad · Apr 16, 2012

Kac said:
I'm not worried about broken legs on any RFing seat. I'd rather a child come out with a broken leg than a broken neck FFing. Plus, to my knowledge there aren't any documented cases of children breaking their legs RFing, but there are documentations of broken legs and necks FFing.

While I'm not disputing that broken legs are superior to broken necks, I really dislike the argument that there aren't documented cases of broken legs rear facing.

There is no centralized database of car seat injuries. Medical records are private, and no one is even collecting exactly what kind of restraint kids were riding in and matching them up with the injuries. There could be dozens of broken legs due to RFing out there that we would have just no way of knowing about.

LISmama810 · Apr 16, 2012

In a crash, the seat is going to move toward the front of the car, and so will the child's legs. If there's not already a gap, one will be created. The child's legs will likely wind up in the air, so i'd consider it a moot point.

lourdes · Apr 16, 2012

LISmama810 said:
In a crash, the seat is going to move toward the front of the car, and so will the child's legs. If there's not already a gap, one will be created. The child's legs will likely wind up in the air, so i'd consider it a moot point.

Yes but what about rear ends and side impact?

ketchupqueen · Apr 16, 2012

I wanted to point out that European seats are statutorily tested for rear- and side-impacts (and the rear-impact test must be with a kind of worst-case scenario loose install-footprop not fully braced etc.) If there was a potential problem they would have a chance to see it...

There ARE documented cases of broken legs while rear-facing, but none CAUSED by rear-facing-that is, typically in those crashes it is predictable that the crash would have been unsurvivable if the occupant had been forward-facing (often the injury is due to object intrusion, etc.)

glockchick · Apr 16, 2012

ketchupqueen said:
I wanted to point out that European seats are statutorily tested for rear- and side-impacts (and the rear-impact test must be with a kind of worst-case scenario loose install-footprop not fully braced etc.) If there was a potential problem they would have a chance to see it...

There ARE documented cases of broken legs while rear-facing, but none CAUSED by rear-facing-that is, typically in those crashes it is predictable that the crash would have been unsurvivable if the occupant had been forward-facing (often the injury is due to object intrusion, etc.)

You are making me want sweedish seats for my youngest 3......

lourdes · Apr 16, 2012

ketchupqueen said:
I wanted to point out that European seats are statutorily tested for rear- and side-impacts (and the rear-impact test must be with a kind of worst-case scenario loose install-footprop not fully braced etc.) If there was a potential problem they would have a chance to see it...

There ARE documented cases of broken legs while rear-facing, but none CAUSED by rear-facing-that is, typically in those crashes it is predictable that the crash would have been unsurvivable if the occupant had been forward-facing (often the injury is due to object intrusion, etc.)

I don't know if I am not doing the research right but all the videos that I was able to find are frontal crashes, the only side impact it was from Diono, I am not against this seats, I am just curious about them, and the more I learn about them the more I want one but it's not an option right now. I might consider one for whenever I have baby #2 but I have to meet the Foonf first.

How much will cost a Sweden seat with shipping? Are they doing anything to have this seats available in the US, and legal??

SignCuer · Apr 16, 2012

lourdes said:
I don't know if I am not doing the research right but all the videos that I was able to find are frontal crashes, the only side impact it was from Diono, I am not against this seats, I am just curious about them, and the more I learn about them the more I want one but it's not an option right now. I might consider one for whenever I have baby #2 but I have to meet the Foonf first.

How much will cost a Sweden seat with shipping? Are they doing anything to have this seats available in the US, and legal??

I seriously doubt it... we r way behind from the Swedes and just catching up with 40-45 RFing seats...

I have always wanted Sweden seats, but I doubt that will happen until me and Jason are willing to drop that kind of money if and when we have kids. However, Foonf is almot the simliar price as the TWEs which I want bcause I'm not too crazy about headrests. (My RNs all are 80s) and lower profile.. so dunno.

The seats are about $450-$600 to ship one here..I believe.

ketchupqueen · Apr 16, 2012

lourdes said:
I don't know if I am not doing the research right but all the videos that I was able to find are frontal crashes, the only side impact it was from Diono, I am not against this seats, I am just curious about them, and the more I learn about them the more I want one but it's not an option right now. I might consider one for whenever I have baby #2 but I have to meet the Foonf first.

Most of the videos you will find are not actual compliance testing anyway. They are tests done by third-party organizations and may or may not be done to the standards set statutorially. Just FYI. Compliance testing videos are not usually going to end up online...

How much will cost a Sweden seat with shipping? Are they doing anything to have this seats available in the US, and legal??

Well, in some cases you can get a medical waiver when no seat available here meets a child's medical needs. Other than that, no- and they're not going to any time soon. We don't have a floor on our test bench. Unless we get a completely different bench/testing standard, it just wouldn't work- and frankly that's not going to happen any time soon. Change in testing and standards happens slowly and incrementally. We have lots of safe seats on the market. I urge all parents considering a Swedish seat in the US to really take a look at whether it's warranted in their situation. Sometimes the answer will be yes, sometimes the answer will be that there is a US seat on the market that will serve the same need. The standards are so differently written that while both standards are safe it's virtually impossible for seats to meet both without alteration (with the exception of boosters.) That doesn't mean that kids aren't safe in US seats (or are safer in US seats than in European seats, or vice versa.)

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