FYI: Britax and Bracing

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soygurl

Active member
I'm quite sure they used to allow bracing, but since so many vehicles disallow bracing due to advanced airbags, I'm not surprised their policy has changed. :shrug-shoulders:

ETA: I'm glad you posted this though! I think it's really unfortunate how often old, assumed, and just plain wrong information gets passed out around here. :( It's often like a game of telephone, and personally, I'm rather sick of it. I think i
It's really imporant that we stick to the basics when giving out advice. Like RTFM (read the f...unctional manual)! If someone has a question about a special situation, or need clarification about something, then we should tell them to call the manufacturer, and insist on speaking with someone who actually knows what they're talking about! This forum is a fantastic resourse and community, but I think we need to (mostly) stick to things like offering suggestion for which seat to purchase for specific stuations, giving RF/FF/booste info, and helping with basic installation issues. :twocents:
 
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christineka

New member
I'm quite sure they used to allow bracing, but since so many vehicles disallow bracing due to advanced airbags, I'm not surprised their policy has changed. :shrug-shoulders:

She said light touching was only okay if allowed by the vehicle.
 

MaeganEmily

New member
Where did the information about bracing come from in the first place? I can't find anything about touching/bracing at all in the Marathon manual.
 

cryswilkins

New member
I think that you were aloud to brace the old style Britax seats. I don't have a manual handy though.

Sent from my iPhone, please excuse my typos.
 

christineka

New member
I asked about both the new and classic style convertibles. Here is the email:

BRACING is VERY different than touching! BRACING is not permitted. Touching is acceptable IF the vehicle manufacturer does not have any specific directions – but many are prohibiting any contact with front passenger and some either.

A BRITAX seat can be installed correctly with vehicle seat moved all the way forward – once installed correctly – the vehicle seat can be moved back until contact is made to allow room for that front passenger. The front vehicle seat should not be used to provide installation support and security (BRACING).

I will follow up with Consumer Services to make sure the difference is clearly understood.
 

soygurl

Active member
I asked about both the new and classic style convertibles. Here is the email:
BRACING is VERY different than touching! BRACING is not permitted. Touching is acceptable IF the vehicle manufacturer does not have any specific directions – but many are prohibiting any contact with front passenger and some either.

A BRITAX seat can be installed correctly with vehicle seat moved all the way forward – once installed correctly – the vehicle seat can be moved back until contact is made to allow room for that front passenger. The front vehicle seat should not be used to provide installation support and security (BRACING).

I will follow up with Consumer Services to make sure the difference is clearly understood.
Thanks, that's very interesting.

Personally, I was never under the impression that "bracing" was done to "provide installation support and security" (other than the theoretical benefit of preventing over-rotation in a collision). By that I mean, I've never heard anyone suggest that an unacceptable install could/should be "corrected" by "bracing" with the front seat. Along the same lines, I've never thought that "bracing" should be used to adjust the angle of a child restraint. In my understanding, "bracing" simply referred to firm pressure from the front vehicle seat, AFTER the child restraint was correctly installed. "Bracing" would have the seats touching hard enough that a piece of paper could NOT easily be pulled between the seats. Usually, there's one "click" difference in adjusting the front vehicle seat, from "lightly touching" to "bracing" (in my mind) but either way, the vehicle seat would be moved after correctly installing the child restraint.

Maybe other people use the term "bracing" differently than me...??? :confused:
 

creideamh

Well-known member
I think of it the same way, Kelsie.
So it is NOT ok to install correctly, push the seat back into the necessary position, and have it more than "piece of paper through" tightness? So confused. If that's the case, I'm glad I put the S65e3 in my mom's car (yes I just made that acronym up) and sold the RA50... there's no WAY I could get that thing in the Forester without bracing... and my mom is only like 5'2".
 

CrazyBoysMamma

New member
Thanks, that's very interesting.

Personally, I was never under the impression that "bracing" was done to "provide installation support and security" (other than the theoretical benefit of preventing over-rotation in a collision). By that I mean, I've never heard anyone suggest that an unacceptable install could/should be "corrected" by "bracing" with the front seat. Along the same lines, I've never thought that "bracing" should be used to adjust the angle of a child restraint. In my understanding, "bracing" simply referred to firm pressure from the front vehicle seat, AFTER the child restraint was correctly installed. "Bracing" would have the seats touching hard enough that a piece of paper could NOT easily be pulled between the seats. Usually, there's one "click" difference in adjusting the front vehicle seat, from "lightly touching" to "bracing" (in my mind) but either way, the vehicle seat would be moved after correctly installing the child restraint.

Maybe other people use the term "bracing" differently than me...??? :confused:

This was my understanding as well...now I'm confused, what is "gentle touching" vs. touching, vs...I guess what I thought "bracing" was? :confused:
 

Shanora

Well-known member
My though was the same. Brace the seat, but it could NOT adjust the angle or move the car seat out of position it was installed in.
 

cso1997

Active member
If someone has a question about a special situation, or need clarification about something, then we should tell them to call the manufacturer, and insist on speaking with someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

Unfortunately, that is often impossible. Even being a tech, when I call a manufacturer, it is very difficult, if not impossible to get through customer service. There are only a few techs that are allowed to speak to someone "in the know". Sounds good in theory though. Doesn't really work in the real world.

Manufacturers are a huge part of the problem because they allow/turn the other cheek to their customer service reps giving out horribly inaccurate information. People bring that information onto the internet and rumors start flying.

In EMS, there is a saying "if you didn't write it down, then it didn't happen". The same should apply to car seats. If the manufacturer can't be bothered to put it in the manual then who knows if it is true or not. Just because some manufacturer rep said it, doesn't automatically make it true. Just a sticky situation all around.
 

bubbaray

New member
cso1997 said:
In EMS, there is a saying "if you didn't write it down, then it didn't happen". The same should apply to car seats. If the manufacturer can't be bothered to put it in the manual then who knows if it is true or not. Just because some manufacturer rep said it, doesn't automatically make it true. Just a sticky situation all around.


:yeahthat:

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org
 

soygurl

Active member
Good point cso1997! I totally agree. But it doesn't help the situation, when we (this forum, as a community in general) spread those rumors with wild abandon. When someone calls a manufacturer and gets some crazy info from a CS rep, we should all try not to take it as fact, and tell everyone who asks with a similar question/issue. If we keep sending people back to the manufacturer, then I think it would probably lessen the likelyhood of the same crazy info getting given out to everyone. And maybe the manufacturers will get sick of all the same questions, and might start improving their manuals! :rolleyes:
 
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cso1997

Active member
Good point cso1997! I totally agree. But it doesn't help the situation when we (this forum, as a community in general) spread those rumors with wild abandon. When someone calls a manufacturer and gets some crazy info from a CS rep, we should all try not to take it as fact, and tell everyone who asks with a similar question/issue. If we keep sending people back to the manufacturer, then I think it probably lessens the likelyhood of the same crazy info getting given out to everyone. And maybe the manufacturers will get sick of the same questions, and will start improving their manuals! :rolleyes:

That right there would help a lot!! We all need to be more skeptical of CS information (or misinformation...ha ha) and be fully upfront that the information was hear say and not in the manual.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Thanks, that's very interesting.

Personally, I was never under the impression that "bracing" was done to "provide installation support and security" (other than the theoretical benefit of preventing over-rotation in a collision). By that I mean, I've never heard anyone suggest that an unacceptable install could/should be "corrected" by "bracing" with the front seat. Along the same lines, I've never thought that "bracing" should be used to adjust the angle of a child restraint. In my understanding, "bracing" simply referred to firm pressure from the front vehicle seat, AFTER the child restraint was correctly installed. "Bracing" would have the seats touching hard enough that a piece of paper could NOT easily be pulled between the seats. Usually, there's one "click" difference in adjusting the front vehicle seat, from "lightly touching" to "bracing" (in my mind) but either way, the vehicle seat would be moved after correctly installing the child restraint.

Maybe other people use the term "bracing" differently than me...??? :confused:

This is my understanding as well. I think this issue is a mostly matter of semantics.

A rear-facing carseat should be correctly installed initially, including front-to-back movement and angle. If not prohibited by the carseat or vehicle owner's manual, the vehicle seat in front may then be moved backward until it just barely contacts the carseat, but does not affect its angle or installation. Britax generally allows such contact, again provided the vehicle manual does not prohibit it.

This could provide a theoretical benefit of reducing downward rotation. There is some disagreement as to whether any theoretical reduction would actually be significant, as the vehicle seatback likely moves in a crash along with the carseat.
 

christineka

New member
The Diono version of bracing is much more. You can install the radian, then push the front seat into the radian until it just lifts up, then forward just enough to make it go down.

I've read a million times that diono and britax are the only manufacturers that allow bracing. Now recently I've seen that dorel allows the seat to lightly touch the one in front. With the clarification of britax's bracing would that mean that dorel seats can brace?
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
The Diono version of bracing is much more. You can install the radian, then push the front seat into the radian until it just lifts up, then forward just enough to make it go down.

If allowed in the manual, then obviously follow any manufacturer's guidelines present.

I've read a million times that diono and britax are the only manufacturers that allow bracing. Now recently I've seen that dorel allows the seat to lightly touch the one in front. With the clarification of britax's bracing would that mean that dorel seats can brace?

I can't speak for manufacturers and of course it may vary by individual products also. Even so, I would be comfortable having my own rear-facing carseats contact (meaning barely touch) the vehicle seat, unless it was prohibited by an owner's manual or manufacturer's online FAQ or something.
 

jjordan

Moderator
The Diono version of bracing is much more. You can install the radian, then push the front seat into the radian until it just lifts up, then forward just enough to make it go down.

I've read a million times that diono and britax are the only manufacturers that allow bracing. Now recently I've seen that dorel allows the seat to lightly touch the one in front. With the clarification of britax's bracing would that mean that dorel seats can brace?

Is that Diono version of bracing in the Diono manual? The only "official" statement I've heard (this was back when it was still Sunshine Kids) is that you can install the restraint rear facing, then move the seat in front of it back UNTIL the front seat touches the child restraint. This was something they posted on FB back in the day. They said that it should not cause the restraint to lift up off the seat, but they definitely didn't say what you're describing above.
 

Pixels

New member
No, what they said on FB on the now-defunct SKJP page was that you could use the front seat to push the Radian more upright as long as the base remained in full contact with the vehicle seat.
 

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