Right from Russ' fingers

cdncasper · Aug 2, 2007

This is an email I got from Russ when I asked why we had to use the RF boot and what the expiry date of the Radian is.

April,

The rear-facing foot really does simplify RF installation immensely and eliminates the guess work. While you may understand angles etc… Most consumers do not. And so, By using the foot, the RF angle will be correct..

The expire date on Radian is 8 yrs.

Russ

So basically the says people are stupid when it comes to installing carseats RF. I just wish it was adjustable since it seems so reclined in my van.

cryswilkins · Aug 2, 2007

So do you have to use it? It is sort of implied that it is not required

Judi · Aug 2, 2007

He has stated before that it has to be used.

singingpond · Aug 3, 2007

Judi said:
He has stated before that it has to be used.

He has also said that SK's testing showed the Radian performing fine RF without the boot, BUT that the boot is still required nonetheless...

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=19632&page=2

see post #30 on the above thread.

I wish they would change the official recommendation.

Katrin

ThreeBeans · Aug 3, 2007

Yeah, they need to deal with that. There is no 'one' angle that is acceptable. It's a fairly wide range, and they need to make the seat work with a variety of different cars. It simply does not fit in my car and allow the front passenger to ride safely.

I'm going to admit something

I made a parental decision

After I got Russ' email that said that the boot didn't change safety results in testing at all, and it was basically there for stupid people, I took it off and installed with a rolled towel. It adjusted the recline several inches. DD is happier. The seat in front is no longer biting the dashboard. And it is actually in more solidly than it was with the damn fricken boot

I would never recommend it to someone else, and I definitely won't take it to my tech class like that

, but I'm comfortable with my decision otherwise.

singingpond · Aug 3, 2007

ThreeBeans said:
Yeah, they need to deal with that. There is no 'one' angle that is acceptable. It's a fairly wide range, and they need to make the seat work with a variety of different cars. It simply does not fit in my car and allow the front passenger to ride safely.

I'm going to admit something

I made a parental decision

After I got Russ' email that said that the boot didn't change safety results in testing at all, and it was basically there for stupid people, I took it off and installed with a rolled towel. It adjusted the recline several inches. DD is happier. The seat in front is no longer biting the dashboard. And it is actually in more solidly than it was with the damn fricken boot

I would never recommend it to someone else, and I definitely won't take it to my tech class like that , but I'm comfortable with my decision otherwise.

Aha, you did go ahead and try it (I know you originally posted that email from Russ, and that you were thinking of trying the RF install without boot). It worked well in my car too, giving a quick solid install behind the driver's seat (as I posted a few weeks ago), and with a much better recline angle for my 2 1/2 y.o. With the RF boot on the seat, I simply cannot use the Radian RF in either outboard position.

I haven't come to the parental decision point yet with this issue, since I will be moving 4 m.o. DD into the center-installed Radian (good angle for her with the boot on the seat), and moving her brother outboard into a Wizard (which we are allowed to install more upright, thank goodness). However, down the road, I think this issue will be resurfacing, the next time we have to shuffle seats around.

Maybe if enough of us nag Russ/SK, they will consider a change?? If I had been officially allowed to install the Radian RF without the boot, I would have bought a second Radian two weeks ago. Instead, I ended up doing lots of shuffling of seats and occupants, and bought a Marathon instead. You'd think that SK would prefer the first option

.

Incidentally, I notice that you are still here, so that must mean baby isn't making an appearance just yet

... Not sure if you're getting impatient, but I can sympathize -- my DD came two weeks after due date, and the waiting, and the false alarms, got pretty tedious (especially since the in-laws were in residence for most of that time, waiting to 'spring into action' -- they're very nice helpful people, but still...).

Katrin

Misty-Bug · Aug 3, 2007

I don't think he was calling people stupid. I think it is more for those that don't know what you all know. So I can use a pool noodle or towel? and it doesn't jeapordize the safety of teh seat?

ThreeBeans · Aug 3, 2007

Misty-Bug said:
I don't think he was calling people stupid. I think it is more for those that don't know what you all know. So I can use a pool noodle or towel? and it doesn't jeapordize the safety of teh seat?

No. He was very clear that you MUST use the boot.

Misty-Bug · Aug 3, 2007

ThreeBeans said:
No. He was very clear that you MUST use the boot.

alright but you can call me stupid if you want........
I HAVE to use it? Now I am wondering about getting this seat. Sigh. Why are some using the towel rolled up though? Wouldn't the boot make it reclined too much? My son is 15 months. SOrry my brain just is not comprehending. I am having one of those days. My kid is cranky. Maybe I am stupid! LOL!!

ThreeBeans · Aug 3, 2007

Misty-Bug said:
alright but you can call me stupid if you want........
I HAVE to use it? Now I am wondering about getting this seat. Sigh. Why are some using the towel rolled up though? Wouldn't the boot make it reclined too much? My son is 15 months. SOrry my brain just is not comprehending. I am having one of those days. My kid is cranky. Maybe I am stupid! LOL!!

I am using a rolled up towel because I am a bad-ass rebel

That doesn't make it right

I am clearly voiding the warranty of the seat by doing it.

Misty-Bug · Aug 3, 2007

ThreeBeans said:
I am using a rolled up towel because I am a bad-ass rebel

That doesn't make it right

I am clearly voiding the warranty of the seat by doing it.

would it still be a seat worth purchasing? I need the smaller profile and the higher seat limit. I am not sure if we will use it RFing or not, depends on when I purchase it. Does the foot make it TOO reclined. Cooper likes it a little reclined cause any further forward and his head drops. thanks

ThreeBeans · Aug 3, 2007

The problem I ran into was that between the angle my seat all ready has and the limited space, there was no way to install it rear-facing without the seat in front completely scrunched up the dashboard.

It's different in everyone's car, obviously. If you can do a middle seat install, it probably won't matter anyway

CDNTech · Aug 3, 2007

This is the Radian installed in my van... according to SouthPawBoston's angle recline program, it is installed at a 31 degree angle and that is after I have tightened the tether a bit. So, it is entirely possible to have a more upright angle on this seat using the boot... it really depends what vehicle it is going in and how sloped the vehicle seats are.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1139/980637850_c62386b558.jpg?v=0

There is just enough room for me to sit completely comfortable in the passenger seat in front of it, so I wouldn't want to use this seat for a newborn in the captains chairs of my van... reclining it to the appropriate 45 degree angle would leave me no room left in the front seat.

snowbird25ca · Aug 3, 2007

Misty-Bug said:
would it still be a seat worth purchasing? I need the smaller profile and the higher seat limit. I am not sure if we will use it RFing or not, depends on when I purchase it. Does the foot make it TOO reclined. Cooper likes it a little reclined cause any further forward and his head drops. thanks

It really depends on the angle of your vehicle seat cushions as they slope towards the seat bite, and how compressible your cushions are. Flat firm seats pretty much make the seat at a 45 degree angle without any way to get it more upright. OTOH, seats with an angle, or easily compressible seats, can get the radian pretty upright even with the rf'ing boot on.

We have angled seats that are moderately compressible, and I had to use the rf tether to get a sufficient angle for my ds, and I actually tightened it down quite a way to get it reclined enough for him at 5.5mos. We took it back to have money to get a SS1 for him, but will be buying another radian when he outgrows the SS1. I haven't decided yet if it will be used rf'ing or ff'ing though.

Some people don't like the seat rf'ing because of the boot, I am still a fan of the Radian, and given the limited options we have for HWH seats here in Canada, I have no hesitation in recommending it to people. I do have some tricks for installing it and also for getting a more upright install rf'ing though, so perhaps I worry less about the angle and incompatibility thing. (Kudos to Jen btw, she installed the radian in my truck using one of the tricks in the center position, when I thought it couldn't get an acceptable install there. Turns out it could get in there rock solid. And now I have another way to try to get the seat in when it seems like it won't work.

)

CDNTech · Aug 3, 2007

snowbird25ca said:
(Kudos to Jen btw, she installed the radian in my truck using one of the tricks in the center position, when I thought it couldn't get an acceptable install there. Turns out it could get in there rock solid. And now I have another way to try to get the seat in when it seems like it won't work. )

Thanks Trudy! Where's the blushing icon?:thanx!:

Misty-Bug · Aug 3, 2007

ok. I think I will still keep this seat on my list. Which contains just one. LOL. He may be RFing in it for a bit. For some reason I am still hesitant about using the RFing tether. not sure exactly why but it just seems odd to me. I wish I had one of you near me!!

ThreeBeans · Aug 3, 2007

Misty-Bug said:
ok. I think I will still keep this seat on my list. Which contains just one. LOL. He may be RFing in it for a bit. For some reason I am still hesitant about using the RFing tether. not sure exactly why but it just seems odd to me. I wish I had one of you near me!!

Are you not confident of how to use it

It's pretty easy

Misty-Bug · Aug 3, 2007

ThreeBeans said:
Are you not confident of how to use it

It's pretty easy

I was just worried after reading this that I may not get a good install with it RFing. I need a smaller profile seat then my AOE. So no I am not confident on how to use it but I also don't have it yet. If that makes sense

cdncasper · Aug 3, 2007

snowbird25ca said:
Some people don't like the seat rf'ing because of the boot, I am still a fan of the Radian, and given the limited options we have for HWH seats here in Canada, I have no hesitation in recommending it to people. I do have some tricks for installing it and also for getting a more upright install rf'ing though, so perhaps I worry less about the angle and incompatibility thing. (Kudos to Jen btw, she installed the radian in my truck using one of the tricks in the center position, when I thought it couldn't get an acceptable install there. Turns out it could get in there rock solid. And now I have another way to try to get the seat in when it seems like it won't work. )

So what are your tricks?

CDNTech · Aug 3, 2007

cdncasper said:
So what are your tricks?

I'll never tell, mu ha ha ha. :evil grin:

Just kidding.

In Trudy's case, she had a switchable retractor. Installing the seat meant buckling it in and locking the seatbelt. Pull the shoulder belt portion through the velcro opening and pulling straight up and slightly in towards the seat you can get all the slack out of the lap portion as you are kneeling in the seat. Once all the slack is out, feed all the remaining shoulder portion of the seatbelt back into the retractor.

Test for movement... it's probably still loose. Carefully unbuckle the seatbelt and feed some of it back into the retractor (2 - 3 clicks at a time). Have one person sit/kneel/bounce on the seat... especially on the side you are trying to buckle in and have a 2nd person work on buckling it back up. Test for movment... if you still have too much movement, repeat. This trick works every time for Switchable belts with any child restraint I've come across.

Being able to pull the shoulder portion of the seatbelt in towards the carseat and up really helps you to get a rock solid install the first time. The Radian makes it super easy with the velcro openings right there. With the AO and it's clones you can pull part of the seat cover off the side of the seat and use the hole in the belt path. It's a great trick to have in your arsenal and really easy to show parents how to get a tight install the first time with minimal fuss.

Right from Russ' fingers

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