Argued with the pediatrician...

carseatfreak · Mar 13, 2012

Had our 2 year checkup today. Girls are 22 lbs and 24 lbs. He told me they could be forward facing now. :-( Right in front of dh... I argued and said I thought they were safer staying rf to the max weight of their seat. He spouted off some statistic about them being safer in a frontal collision which accounts for 85% of accidents (when rf) but no safer in a side impact. Dh hasn't 'went there' since we left so hoping he heard me kid and clear tell the ped my goal was at least three!

tam_shops · Mar 13, 2012

I am so sorry! I would be so ticked! And, it becomes a bit of a *grey* area b/c the doc is following the AAP 2yo part, but not the Max of Height/Weight of seat.

I'd be like a dog w/ a bone on this w/ dh, he'd know better than to *go* there with me. I've shown him the utube crash videos and lucky for me, he agrees!

As for the doc. I'd print off the AAP info and then highlight the Max height/weight part and then tell him if he is going to give out random information, he should at least follow what his governing body tells him to do, not give his own statistics that are irrelevant when it's been established that ERF is safer and RF vs FF doesn't (or does it??) matter for a side impact accident...

I'm so sorry!

tam

Brianna · Mar 13, 2012

Doc was following AAP recs.

All children 2 years or older, or those younger than 2 years who have outgrown the rear-facing weight or height limit for their car safety seat, should use a Forward-Facing Car Safety Seat with a harness for as long as possible, up to the highest weight or height allowed their car safety seat’s manufacturer.

http://www.healthychildren.org/Engl...ar-Safety-Seats-Information-for-Families.aspx
I would send him the NHTSA flier in the mail http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic Injury Control/Articles/Associated Files/4StepsFlyer.pdf and hope that he chooses to follow NHTSA recs instead of AAP recs.

carseatfreak · Mar 13, 2012

Brianna said:
Doc was following AAP recs.

http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/Pages/Car-Safety-Seats-Information-for-Families.aspx
I would send him the NHTSA flier in the mail http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Traffic%20Injury%20Control/Articles/Associated%20Files/4StepsFlyer.pdf and hope that he chooses to follow NHTSA recs instead of AAP recs.

Yep that's what he is following. He gave us a handout with that same text. I think dh knows how strongly I feel and won't make it an issue...but it just puts that doubt in him that maybe its not a huge deal. And...I just got him to agree to two new radians for our everyday vehicle last night for a multitude of reasons...width and leg room being my top two. He didnt say anything on the drive home tho...I was surprised.

VoodooChile · Mar 13, 2012

Ugh, sorry!
I have ds's 3 year next month, and I wonder if he'll bring it up. I had him in there at 2 1/2 (since we'd just moved here, I'd wanted to get him established with the practice), and the doc said I could turn him, but didn't try to talk statistics or anything. I just said I wasn't interested in ff him. If I had to guess off the top of my head, he probably asks at 3 year checks (maybe to remind parents not to move 3 year olds to boosters), and I'm willing to bet I'm his only parent with a rf 3 year old.

Pixels · Mar 13, 2012

carseatfreak said:
Had our 2 year checkup today. Girls are 22 lbs and 24 lbs. He told me they could be forward facing now. :-( Right in front of dh... I argued and said I thought they were safer staying rf to the max weight of their seat. He spouted off some statistic about them being safer in a frontal collision which accounts for 85% of accidents (when rf) but no safer in a side impact. Dh hasn't 'went there' since we left so hoping he heard me kid and clear tell the ped my goal was at least three!

Frontal impacts are the most common. Side impacts are less common but more deadly when they do happen. Rear facing is 532% safer in a side impact than forward facing. The majority of the benefit of rear facing is in side impacts.

Jennifer mom to my 7 · Mar 13, 2012

carseatfreak said:
Had our 2 year checkup today. Girls are 22 lbs and 24 lbs. He told me they could be forward facing now. :-( Right in front of dh... I argued and said I thought they were safer staying rf to the max weight of their seat. He spouted off some statistic about them being safer in a frontal collision which accounts for 85% of accidents (when rf) but no safer in a side impact. Dh hasn't 'went there' since we left so hoping he heard me kid and clear tell the ped my goal was at least three!

Someone help

I can't find the study to find the exact statistics. Please correct me if I am wrong.

See, but he is wrong about the conclusion of this study. It was in a side impact that they were safER in a rf seat. There was statistically no difference in a front impact or rear impact.

Carrie_R · Mar 13, 2012

Yes. It's the major domestic study that that conclusion is in... On my phone but google should locate it for you easily. IIRC it's 5.32%, aggregate, for ALL types of crashes and higher than that for side impact alone. Frontal are more common, but side are more deadly...

Pixels · Mar 13, 2012

It's 532% (5.32 times) safer for side impacts, and approximately 2x as safe overall but I don't remember the precise aggregate number.

Pixels · Mar 13, 2012

It's not the source study itself, but this is an official AAP publication. The original study is cited, if pedi wants to look it up. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/121/3/619.full.pdf

"One significant change in counseling is now emerging that may greatly improve the safety of infants and young children. A recent analysis of the protection provided in rear-facing compared with forward-facing car safety seats has revealed that children under the age of 2 years are 75% less likely to die or sustain serious injury when they are in a rear-facing seat.2 This finding was true regardless of direction of the crash, even those crashes with side impact, which typically are the most severe.

Although the study could not provide data dividing the ages by individual months, it is notable that rear-facing car safety seats were more effective than forward-facing car safety seats for both infants under 1 year and children aged 12 to 23 months. The odds of severe injury for forward-facing infants under 12 months of age were 1.79 times higher than for rear-facing infants; for children 12 to 23 months old, the odds were 5.32 times higher."

emphasis mine

carseatfreak · Mar 13, 2012

Wow! Thanks for all the resources. To be honest...I've never dabbled too much in the research side. I have heard the statistics...heard that it's safer from all the experts here! I could have misunderstood him...and maybe he said rear facing does have advantages in a side collision...but that frontal collisions make up 85% of accidents so it's not as likely (IDK!!!). Either way...my below-average in weight 2 year olds are obviously safer rear facing and I know there is research to support that (even if my dr says I can turn them). I can't belive how much safer though...532%!!! Awesome to hear and support my decision.

Thanks everyone!

Haley.h87 · Mar 13, 2012

I'm sorry your Pediatrician argued with you over that! I do have to say that is one of the VERY many things we LOVE about our Pediatrician. She is amazing! I think having a CPST for a daughter might help

.

creideamh · Mar 13, 2012

Haley.h87 said:
I'm sorry your Pediatrician argued with you over that! I do have to say that is one of the VERY many things we LOVE about our Pediatrician. She is amazing! I think having a CPST for a daughter might help .

Hehehe

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

henrietta · Mar 13, 2012

tam_shops said:
I am so sorry! I would be so ticked! And, it becomes a bit of a *grey* area b/c the doc is following the AAP 2yo part, but not the Max of Height/Weight of seat.

I'd be like a dog w/ a bone on this w/ dh, he'd know better than to *go* there with me. I've shown him the utube crash videos and lucky for me, he agrees!

As for the doc. I'd print off the AAP info and then highlight the Max height/weight part and then tell him if he is going to give out random information, he should at least follow what his governing body tells him to do, not give his own statistics that are irrelevant when it's been established that ERF is safer and RF vs FF doesn't (or does it??) matter for a side impact accident...

I'm so sorry!

tam

Actually, rearfacing DOES matter in a side impact. It's proven to be much safer. I don't have links, but I'm sure another tech here will.

henrietta

actuallyamanda · Mar 13, 2012

I really hate it when doctors tell parents crap like that! Alot of parents will believe it just because they believe everything that comes out of their mouth. Yeh, I get that he's a pediatrician and all, which makes him a specialist at general medicine regarding a child. It doesnt make him a carseat technician or even a good parent for that matter!

I wonder if there are any studies showing how many doctors have their own kids rfing past the minimum limits? Do most of the doctors that give out bad carseat advice not have kids of their own?

carseatfreak · Mar 13, 2012

tam_shops said:
I am so sorry! I would be so ticked! And, it becomes a bit of a *grey* area b/c the doc is following the AAP 2yo part, but not the Max of Height/Weight of seat.

I am not going to walk away from our ped over it. Ignoring whatever statistics he was trying to preach to me...he was following the AAP guideline with the '2 year old' statement. I know a lot of peds around here don't go into much carseat discussion at all so I am somewhat impressed he addresses it and tries to avoid any gross wrong-doing. He did tell my 8 year old at her recent checkup that she needed to be in a booster still for a couple of years. It is just frustrating to not have him preaching the same that I had been telling the hubby.

CPST_Augie · Mar 14, 2012

At least he's saying two? My niece's ped told my sister to turn her at one. My sister told him that she was going to stay rear-facing because she'd heard it was safer and he replied with "That's not really true."

Luckily, my sister's reaction was to tell me and say "I'm not turning her, I figure you'll tell me when she has to." (She rear-faced to the max weight in her MR 65.)

Argued with the pediatrician...

carseatfreak

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