Question Non-minivan that will fit 3 Frontier85s?

Hi,
I'm new to this forum. Does anyone know of a full-size sedan or crossover/SUV that will fit 3 Britax Frontiers (without SICT)? We have 3 young kids in FF car seats. DH and I have an 8-passenger Seinna, which we use to transport all 3. Our second car, a '98 Oldsmobile, can only transport two kiddos, and is on its last legs. We'd like to replace the Olds with a non-minivan that could transport all 3 kids. Twice a month DH has a long drive (7 hours round trip) and would prefer either a full-size car or a crossover/SUV that gets decent gas mileage for that type of vehicle. Does anyone have any suggestions? Our kids have super-long torsos and are off-the-charts tall for their ages (4 1/2, 2 1/2 and 2 1/2). We'd like to keep them in 5 point-harnesses as long as possible, and right now the Frontier 85 is the only seat that will keep our oldest in a 5 point harness. (At 50 inches tall, her torso is too long for any of the Radian/Diono seats.) Her younger brothers are on the same growth trajectory, so I would prefer to buy them Frontiers when we get the new car. We keep our cars for a decade, so we will probably buy a 2012 model. I want to make sure the new car/SUV has 3 tether anchors. And if one or two of the Frontiers are going in the 3rd row, ideally I'd like decent access to that row since we still tighten the harness of our DD's Frontier.
(In our '09 8-passenger Sienna, we removed one of the second-row seats, opening up an aisle to the 3rd row where DD's Frontier is installed. So we're willing to remove a seat if the second row will still fit 2 tethered Frontiers.)
Thanks, in advance, for your advice!
Cheers,
Trish

I'm so glad to hear I don't have the only 4.5 year old who's too tall for a radian! Most people think I'm making it up lol! We, unfortunately, don't have a car that fits a frontier, so she's boostered, although she does perfectly so I'm not worried at all.

Are your two year olds FF or RF? They really should be RF if at all possible. My 2.5 year old has at least a year left RF in her radian and she's tall as well.

As far as cars, if you're trying to fit 3 frontiers you're almost definitely going to need to look at a 3rd row vehicle (especially if you plan to later use them in booster mode as buckling will be an issue 3 across). Since you're not looking for a full size car I would look at the mazda 5 and 3 row toyota Rav4. Both have limited leg room in the third row, but enough for kids and will be better on gas than a minivan or full size SUV. Not positive on the tether anchor situation on a rav4, though.

Was also going to suggest Mazda 5...we own one and couldn't be happier. Some think of it more like a van but it drives more like a car and gets better mileage generally. I am in love with mine. We went through similar thought process when we bought it. Really wanted a smaller car/vehicle that got better mileage as we live further away from town but needed the option to transport at least 3 kiddos on occasion. We only have one child currently but we transport cousins/other kids a lot and will hopefully add to our family within the next year or two too.

Anyway, looking into larger cars that would accommodate more kids/seats we found that by the time you get something bigger your gas mileage is often compromised anyway. We love the versatility the Mazda 5 offers us and for a "van" or whatever you want to call it the gas mileage is pretty darn good

I know someone who has 3-across Frontiers in the 2nd row of her Expedition. Unsure on year, or if they are FR85 or FR80s.

The problem you will have in many small and midsize SUVs is the third row legroom for any child in a seat like the Frontier. For example, if you have two F85s in the second row and one in the third, some manufacturers state you must move the second row seats all the way back. That may leave no room at all for feet in the third row for a seat like the F85 that hangs over the edge of the vehicle seat.

Other models don't provide top tethers for the third row. The Toyota Highlander and Mazda CX-9 come to mind offhand.

What about the 2012 Honda Pilot? It has a nice array of top tethers and its among the bigger midsize SUVs and should provide adequate (but not generous) legroom in the second and third row when adjusted for the F85s. In 2WD trim, its among the better models in its class for fuel economy, too.

http://carseatblog.com/14535/2012-honda-pilot-review-kids-carseats-safety/

The problem here will be access to the third row with two F85 in the second row. The GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave and Chevy Traverse have a 7-passenger option with an aisle in the middle of the second row. There's one top tether in the center of the third row. That might be a possibility, too.

http://carseatblog.com/12309/2011-and-2012-buick-enclave-kids-safety-review/

I have been looking at crossovers that will accommodate people or carseats in the third row. Aside from the vehicles previously recommended, I would suggest looking at the Ford Flex. I don't have a FR85, so I can't say how installation is. But, I will say that I feel like it has the roomiest third row. I was looking at 6-passenger models, which have LATCH in the second row captains' chairs and third row passenger seat. I wish it got a little better fuel economy, but its still top of my crossover list right now. Another member on here has one. Hopefully she'll see this and can give you more info.

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I have a 2006 Pilot, and while I don't have 3 Frontiers to try it out to be sure, I do have a ton of space in there. The only seat I couldn't fit was a rf ETA in the 3rd row, and I didn't really try terribly hard.
There are headrests and tether anchors in ALL 2nd and 3rd row seating positions.

Thanks, everybody, for your great advice. I shared it all with DH. I thought he was going to be drawn to the Mazda5 given its smaller footprint, great gas mileage, sliding doors and the way the seats are configured. But he is worried the engine doesn't have enough horsepower for accellerating onto a highway driving with all our kids and gear. I drove a Plymouth Neon for many years before we had kids, so that Mazda engine looks plenty powerful to me. But I do understand his concern.
So now he's leaning toward the Flex or the Pilot.
VoodooChile - how do you get to the third row of your Pilot? Is it possible to remove one of the vehicle seats permanently! Or so you have to fold it forward every time? I assume you can't have a car seat installed in the seat that moves to allow access to the third row, right? Does Honda offer a version of the Pilot with two captain's chairs and a space between them? We'll still be tightening DD's harness in the third row, so I'm eager to hear whether it's easy to access the third row with two large seats like FR85s in the second row. I'll make sure DH brings our two FR85s when he test drives it, but it would be helpful to know what to expect. (The seat configuration function on the Honda website won't work on my iPad.)
DorothyoutofOz -do you think it would be easy to tighten the harness of a FR85 in the third row of a flex with 6 passenger seating and no middle console? I love the retro look of the Flex. And given how tall my kiddos are already, that roomy third row would serve us well when they're teenagers.
Beetlemama - my 2.5 yr olds are FFing now. I had hoped to RF them longer, but DS1 is built like a linebacker and reached the 35 lb. limit of his Advocate just as he turned 2. We thought about replacing the seat with the version that would RF to 40 lbs, but the Britax hotline rep told me the shells on the newer versions are shorter and DS1 would likely have outgrown it for height in a few months. I didn't know about the Dionos with the 45 lb. RF limit back then. We tried keeping DS2 (who is just as tall but several pounds lighter) RF while his twin was FFing next to him but that didn't last long. There was a lot of kicking and howling until they were both FFing. Big sigh.

Twins+One said:

Thanks, everybody, for your great advice. I shared it all with DH. I thought he was going to be drawn to the Mazda5 given its smaller footprint, great gas mileage, sliding doors and the way the seats are configured. But he is worried the engine doesn't have enough horsepower for accellerating onto a highway driving with all our kids and gear. I drove a Plymouth Neon for many years before we had kids, so that Mazda engine looks plenty powerful to me. But I do understand his concern.
So now he's leaning toward the Flex or the Pilot.

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Have him test drive one before he completely nixes it. Might surprise him a lot.

I drove a Mazda 3 a few years back as a rental. That's the small sedan version -- equal to Golf/Focus size category.
3 full sized adults + 1 child + approx 200lbs of luggage.
Automatic.

My ultimate test point is the 405/I-90 interchange headed from the Renton direction in WA. Chaotic short exit-only offramp on to a very very steep long hill with heavy westward high traffic merge and quick lane changes to avoid 3 mandatory exit-only lanes.


Many cars I've driven wept, crept, and barely made it through this ordeal. Not the Mazda 3, completely loaded down with people and full weight of luggage/gear. It was awesome on accelleration & dexterity. I really was impressed with it.

I suspect the Mazda 5 would exceed the peppy strength of its smaller bretheren. The brand, over here in Germany is excellent for 'larger' families. I see the Mazda 5 quite often loaded down with people, gear on roof or towing campers (lighterweight in Europe), easily cruising along at the higher common speeds. Maybe because most standard transmissions, but I doubt that much difference is there with the horsepower & torque options vs the US.

So really, I think if that's what your dh is worried about, horsepower, -- have him test it out. Then you'll both know for sure.

I would have him do a test drive on the Mazda 5 also....I do think that's a valid concern but he may be surprised. It has "zoom zoom" or whatever don't ask me what that's all about but it does make it....peppy? LOL. We live out of town and are on the 65 mph 2-lane all the time; the last 2 wks. I've had 3-4 kids in there all the time plus myself, stroller, bags, etc. and no problems with acceleration.

Also, I was reading over your op again and noted that you wanted 3 tether anchors...I am pretty positive that all seating positions have anchors for top tethers...but in my 2006 only the middle row has lower LATCH anchors. Sounds like that may be a non-issue for you though since seats have to be installed with a seat belt once kids hit the weight limit for LATCH but just thought I'd mention it.

Mazda 5 can also tend to "eat" the rear tires too...the rear wheels have a negative camber angle (the top of the tire ends up turned in more toward the vehicle than the bottom) and that causes the inside of the tire to wear faster. Just something to be aware of.

Overall even with the downfalls I am in love with this car. DH's little Saturn sedan is on it's last leg; it was a salvage title and has some engine issues (leaking oil, possible cracked gasket, etc.) and I am very seriously contemplating getting a newer Mazda 5 when that dies and passing the older one down for him to drive. We just love its versatility and fuel economy that much We'll see.

thanks, Jenna and Morganthe! I'll share your experiences and encourage him to reconsider the Mazda5.

Twins+One said:

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DorothyoutofOz -do you think it would be easy to tighten the harness of a FR85 in the third row of a flex with 6 passenger seating and no middle console? I love the retro look of the Flex. And given how tall my kiddos are already, that roomy third row would serve us well when they're teenagers...

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I just don't know the answer to this as the Flexes I've test driven have had the center console. If we get one, we want the configuration you mention. I was disappointed they didn't have one without a console for me to actually crawl in and out of, but, apparently, most people prefer consoles. I want the center aisle as a walkway since we will have the kids seats installed in the captains' chairs, and I don't want to have to move everything around everytime we have an extra passenger.

You might also look at the 7-passenger version. DH prefers captains' chairs, and I really only needed two additional seating positions. So, I have mostly looked at the 6-passenger version. However, I did crawl through the 7-passenger model. The main difference, to me, was that the bench is fixed. It doesn't slide fore and aft on tracks. The sides still flip forward for third row access.

One other thing I just remembered- After I had my carseats installed, I wanted to sit in the third row to check room. I folded one of the third row seats down and just climbed in through the hatch.

The best advice I have gotten on this vehicle shopping journey is to take my family and all of my seats to every vehicle I was seriously considering. I've had my kids, carseats, friends and family members in and out of several vehicles. It really helped weed out what would and wouldn't work for us.

Good luck!

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Twins+One said:

T
VoodooChile - how do you get to the third row of your Pilot? Is it possible to remove one of the vehicle seats permanently! Or so you have to fold it forward every time? I assume you can't have a car seat installed in the seat that moves to allow access to the third row, right? Does Honda offer a version of the Pilot with two captain's chairs and a space between them? We'll still be tightening DD's harness in the third row, so I'm eager to hear whether it's easy to access the third row with two large seats like FR85s in the second row. I'll make sure DH brings our two FR85s when he test drives it, but it would be helpful to know what to expect. (The seat configuration function on the Honda website won't work on my iPad.)

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I can answer this part of your question. The Pilot does not have a option for captains chairs. The seat doesn't tumble forward though, it slides and is really easy to do. We are looking at a 2012 and both my older kids can do it very easily on their own. We had a neighbor's dd (who is 4 1/2) try it for us and she can slide it back, though she wasn't able to get out of the back by herself.

I'll also say that we really liked the Mazda 5. It isn't quite enough room for us, since it wouldn't fit our dogs. We are actually discussing selling the Ford Fusion we have a replacing it with a Mazda 5 since I will likely go back to work in a year or 2 and DH and I will have the kids equally during the week.

Mommyto2 - that's interesting that the Pilot seat slides rather than folds. Do you know if it's possible to have a tetehred car seat installed in the 2nd row seat that slides forward? In other words, is the tether anchor on the seat itself or on the floor?

DorothyoutofOz - Thanks. There are a bunch of Ford dealers around us, so I'll call around to see if one has a 6 passenger version without the console before DH goes to look at it.

The suggestion about bringing the seats and the kids is a good one. It will be a zoo with all of us there, but I'd rather figure out what potenetial problems exist before plunking down that kind of moolah.

Twins+One said:

Mommyto2 - that's interesting that the Pilot seat slides rather than folds. Do you know if it's possible to have a tetehred car seat installed in the 2nd row seat that slides forward? In other words, is the tether anchor on the seat itself or on the floor?

DorothyoutofOz - Thanks. There are a bunch of Ford dealers around us, so I'll call around to see if one has a 6 passenger version without the console before DH goes to look at it.

The suggestion about bringing the seats and the kids is a good one. It will be a zoo with all of us there, but I'd rather figure out what potenetial problems exist before plunking down that kind of moolah.

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The tether is on the seat. The seat slides forward then the seatback folds down. With a backless booster there for dd1 the seat slid and folded fine. I plan on trying a harnessed seat there when I am able to go with one of my big kids, I would like to see if they are able to squeeze into the back without the seatback folded (just slid forward) It looks like there would be enough room. We wouldn't need a seat there on a regular basis but I am still curious.

One of the moms at DS's preschool has three frontiers in the second row of her Nisson Armada. Not sure how they are installed, but she was parked next to me loading her triplets.

Twins+One said:

...

The suggestion about bringing the seats and the kids is a good one. It will be a zoo with all of us there, but I'd rather figure out what potenetial problems exist before plunking down that kind of moolah.

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Members here suggested it to me, and, while it is somewhat of a spectacle, it is very helpful. Some vehicles I thought would work just did not accommodate people and carseats in the places I will be needing them. I need to go back once more to experiment with loading the cargo area. We have three dogs that will go places with us occasionally, and I need to be sure I can fit our family, luggage and dog crates. The dealership told me last time they had never seen someone with such a specific idea about how things needed to work.

BTW- I told the salesperson bringing the car up that I needed to take time to install carseats, and they pulled up right beside my vehicle to make it easier.

ETA- Oh, and I brought aquadoodles and little snacks and let the kids play in my vehicle with whoever I had along as a helper. That way, they were supervised and corraled while I installed seats. HTH

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I drive an Acura MDX which seems a little smaller than the Pilot but close! I have 2 Britax Marathons in the middle seats and I think having 3 frontiers would be a possibility! I keep the rear seats folded down flat to support my unhealthy stroller addiction/collection. LOVE my MDX, but dying for a minivan as my daughter is unable to walk and sliding doors would be SO MUCH easier to get her in and out!!!!

Mazda5 definately! We love ours!

If you can install the Frontiers in the 2nd row with LATCH then you can slide them forward to give more legroom to the 3rd passenger. If installed with the seatbelt, the 2nd row seats need to be pushed all the way back which leaves no legroom for the 3rd row. Or you can put 2 Frontiers in the 3rd row, one in the 2nd row, and leave the other 2nd row seat flipped or pushed forward so you have easy access to the 3rd row for buckling.

I have a 2010 Flex. I've had lots of combos of all car seats and car seats and adult sized people in it. It's worked very well for our family.

There's now way 3 Frontiers will work across the 2nd row bench. 3 across combos can work with 1 Frontier, but 3 are way too wide. I haven't been able to get a Frontier in the middle 2nd row spot. The seatbelt isn't long enough for lbp. I didn't get a good install sbp, but I didn't try very hard since it wasn't an ideal spot for me anyway.

Double check the top tether spots on the 2012. I know they did a slight redesign so just maybe they changed them. Top tethers are located on the vehicle seat back, near the bottom. (2010) 2nd row has 3 with bench, 2 with captains chairs and third row has 1. So unless the 2012 added the additional third row tether, you'll need to put 2 kids in the second row. AFAIK, the 2nd row console is standard. But I think I remember seeing something about people removing them...like it's just a couple bolts to unscrew. That would be ideal though because your 3rd row kid could walk through to get to the back. Loading through the hatch is another option. It's surprisingly easy. Just leave 1 third row seat folded down. I'm short and I can easily step into the cargo area to load and buckle kids.

You can also buckle the third row kid from the back door. I step on the bottom door frame area and reach over the second row child.

I really like our Flex. A lot of things are standard that are options on other vehicles. It's a good mini-van alternative.

The Mazda 5 is a completely different vehicle, but may also be a good option for you. It won't be as roomy and probably not as deluxe. But it gets better gas mileage and the price is lower.