To booster or not to booster.

NannyMom · Feb 15, 2012

Why is it so hard? "Every step is a step down in safety". NHTSA (or is it AAP? I don't remember) says children 4-7 should be in a harness. We've "always" said 4 AND 40 is a minimum for boosters. And we say, some 5 year olds have the booster maturity and if they do they are safe in a booster. Swedes go straight from RF to a booster at age 5 because they feel it's safer than 5pt harness FF. WHY is this so hard? Can I just bury my head in the sand and pretend I'm one of those parents that doesn't know all this stuff?

I have a booster for LK in my van. Sofi's been REALLY wanting to use it. I admit to letting her use it for a few short drives to school (less than 5 mins up the road). We couldn't buckle the Cybex next to the Maestro, so I took the Maestro out (expecting the new RXT, which ended up being a floor model I won't use). But DH has been doing most of the driving of Sofi in his car, so it doesn't matter. There was a fight between LK and Sofi yesterday about who was riding in the Cybex and who was riding 3rd row in the FR85 (both wanted the Cybex).

Part of me wants to just go ahead and let Sofi use a booster in the van, unless we're going on a REALLY long ride (2+ hr drive this saturday). But then part of me screams SHE's NOT 40 POUNDS YET!!!!

:dizzy::dizzy:

KaysKidz · Feb 15, 2012

At the rate my ds is growing, he will be 7 before he's 40lbs. He's the kind of kid 30lbs minimums were designed for. He'll be 5 in May and is barely 31lbs. I would be SHOCKED if he were 40lbs by 7. I'm not making him wait until he's 7 to ride in a booster.

At your dd's age/size, I would have no issue with her having a booster for p/t use. JMHO.

christineka · Feb 15, 2012

My dd is 7 and almost 40 pounds. I'd have no problems at all putting her in a booster full time, except that it's a pain and she has a hard time buckling. I let her ride in the booster in any other vehicle.

My just turned 5 year old sits great in the booster, but I feel he is too young for full time and again, he can't buckle himself and boosters are an extra pain, so he rides in the booster on occasion.

I like age 6 as a minimum for full-time use, regardless of weight as long as the child meets the minimums of the seat.

creideamh · Feb 15, 2012

Honestly? I'm with the Swedes on the RF to booster dealio (although I also understand the Euro shield boosters, i.e. Kiddy.) At Sofi's age, I too would be just fine with p/t boostering her. Is it REALLY a step down if she fits the belt properly and stays in place so the seatbelt protects in all the right spots? I really doubt it.
S could still RF in the Radians (tiny little thing, torso size of most 3-4 y/os and she's 6.5), but she's one of those rare, mature kids who stays in place no matter what. I have no qualms whatsoever with her riding in a booster full-time.

ElfJewel · Feb 15, 2012

Jamie will be 6 next month, and is only 37 lbs. She has been 34-36 lbs for 2 years. She is in a harness with me (RF or FF) and in a booster with everyone else (sometimes with me too). She sits better than K does and I don't worry about her as long as the belt fits.

skylinphoto · Feb 16, 2012

Cybex has a min weight of 33lbs I believe.
My 36-37lb 5.5 yr old rides in his cybex booster full time and does fantastic.

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joolsplus3 · Feb 16, 2012

Swedes have no proof that harnessing is NOT safer, though. Every year that passes, we have more and more kids harnessed longer, and the death rate goes down in this country, so where's the evidence that harnessing is unsafe? Boostering is 'safe enough' for kids 5 and over, but it's still possible we'll find out that harnessing kids older is safEST. We are waiting on the data, and Sweden isn't doing much to prove or disprove their theory.
Anyway, for Sofi, a booster is probably a very safe choice if the belts fit and she sits properly. Leah's back and forth between a backless and a harness these days, depending on who else is in the car and what she's wearing.

Little Ps Mama · Feb 16, 2012

**removed, wrong thread**

NannyMom · Feb 16, 2012

well she was 39.5 pounds at the allergist today. gotta weigh her at home again.

Carrie_R · Feb 16, 2012

joolsplus3 said:
...and Sweden isn't doing much to prove or disprove their theory...

But with a death rate as low as theirs is, (something absurdly low, like 7 kids in 5 years, right?) is the burden really on them to "prove" the merits of their system via study? IMO, while it may not be superior, I think that rate prices that their system isn't "broken," at least. (Of course, there are other factors, so I suppose it's as much about their system as a whole as it is their restraint choices.)

Anyways, regarding Sofi, in my vehicle I probably would not opt to booster her. I personally feel that on kids of slight build, giving their petite skeletons more time to develop/harden can only be a benefit to them. I am not against early boostering in every situation - I booster trained a charge just after his fourth birthday for family reasons - but in the cases of these petite kiddos, it does give me pause. (A friend's little girl is about 35 lbs and will be six next month... When baby bro outgrows his SR he'll need her RN and I am conflicted about what to recommend for just this reason. It makes me shudder to think of her tiny frame being protected by only the seatbelt. I just feel like there's almost not enough to her hips to prevent submarining.)

All of that said, despite the fact that I would choose a harness, I don't think it's necessary neglectful to put her in a booster. If it fits her well and she meets the minimums, she's probably ok.

Baylor · Feb 16, 2012

I think their success rate has less to do with the hwh vs booster debate as it does rear facing til 5.

auto correct hates me

Brianna · Feb 16, 2012

Carrie_R said:
But with a death rate as low as theirs is, (something absurdly low, like 7 kids in 5 years, right?)

The US and Canada would have lower deaths per year if the populations were as small as Sweden too. I think it would be more fair to compare child deaths in vehicle crashes as a percentage of the child population of each country, rather than as a gross number. The population of Sweden is a fraction of the US, here is a graph comparing the 3 countries

christineka · Feb 16, 2012

Brianna said:
The US and Canada would have lower deaths per year if the populations were as small as Sweden too. I think it would be more fair to compare child deaths in vehicle crashes as a percentage of the child population of each country, rather than as a gross number. The population of Sweden is a fraction of the US, here is a graph comparing the 3 countries

Yes. They also have much stricter laws for drivers. It's more difficult to get a driver's license and they are very serious about infractions such as dui.

Carrie_R · Feb 16, 2012

Yes, hence this statement...

Carrie_R said:
IMO, while it may not be superior, I think that rate prices that their system isn't "broken," at least. (Of course, there are other factors, so I suppose it's as much about their system as a whole as it is their restraint choices.)

Kac, you have a valid point about the numbers. However, although I don't have access to the figures at the moment, but I believe it is significantly lower, even %-wise. I will try to dig them up a bit later.

emtb79 · Feb 16, 2012

Is it Saturday ye? All of my kids are harnessed in my big van.

Lemonade · Feb 16, 2012

I have a kid in a similar situation. He's 6 and about 37# (naked) and 44". Still harnessed in the FR. He actually looks good in the SGL (yes, I know it's got a 40# minimum!). I tried him in the cybex but it just didn't look as good. He's overall well behaved, but a tad wiggly.
He's also rarely in the car because we walk him to school. So it's maybe only a handful of times a week. I know I need to 'let go' at some point, but I'm not sure when. He's so due for a growth spurt. He had grown 3lbs and 3 inches between 3 and 4, and 4 and 5, but only 1.5lbs and 1.5" between 5 and 6. So part of me is waiting for a spurt. Maybe in the spring?

NannyMom · Feb 16, 2012

Well, Sofi weighed in at 39.5 pounds today at the allergist. I'll weigh her at a friends house tomorrow to see if it holds up. I'd be surprised thought because in sept she was only 35!

Belle's Mamma · Feb 18, 2012

Brianna said:
The US and Canada would have lower deaths per year if the populations were as small as Sweden too. I think it would be more fair to compare child deaths in vehicle crashes as a percentage of the child population of each country, rather than as a gross number. The population of Sweden is a fraction of the US, here is a graph comparing the 3 countries

In 2007 he US had about 33x the population of Sweden (301.5 million in the US vs 9.1481 million in Sweden).

6,683 children between the ages of 0 and 19 died in the US in motor vehicle collisions.

By those figures, 203 children within that 0-19 cohort would die in motor vehicle collisions in that year to be on par with the US.

Is the Swedish MVC rate on par with the US childhood MVC rate? I don't know, I can't find it right now and I'm too tired to keep looking but it's a start. If anyone can find better stats particularly with the under 15 set (darn driver's licences) that would rock.

We don't have all of the data we need to draw definitive conclusions on harnessing vs boostering ( and don't I wish we did...esp. now that my 5 yo is close to ending her RFing "career") and probably never will.

finn · Feb 19, 2012

I thought most Swedes only rf until 4, then boostered full-time after that?

Ds was & has been 40lbs since he was 4. We started booster training him when he turned ff at 4. He is now 5 & rides in a booster full-time in everyones car & does brilliantly in it & he is a full on wiggly, must run everywhere kid. I think in some cases it's better to catch them & teach them when they're young, that way when they get older & more defiant the rules are all ready ingrained lol

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MommyShannon · Feb 19, 2012

This looks really good. http://www.kindersicherheit.de/repcard2e.pdf It's old though and I'm on my phone so I just glanced at some charts. It does show that Sweden had the lowest death rate for children under 15 in vehicles even in the mid 90s. Maybe somebody will have better luck finding a newer version of this.

To booster or not to booster.

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