European car seats with Impact Shield?

Shanrahan

New member
All, I am in the UK, about to repatriate to the US. I have twin 2-year olds who currently use Kiddy Energy Pro carseats. They have one every saftey award in Europe. Part of the reason is that they use an impact shield instead of a 5-pt harness. They also only use a seatbelt to be fixed, so you can install them in any car. (have a look, below)

http://www.kiddy.de/en/childrens-car-seats/9months-4years/kiddy-energy-pro.html

When we move home I would like to continue to use them, mostly because, since the seats come apart in 2 pieces, they are very easy to WASH! My son gets car sick all the time -- on every journey -- so this is critical to me. Seats with a 5-point harness are much harder to clean.

1) what risks to I run if I continue to use them in the US
2) Does anyone know of a similar option in the US, where cleaning is very simple?

Thanks!
 
ADS

tarynsmum

Senior Community Member
Kiddy is also coming to the US, and introducing the Kiddy World Plus, which looks incredibly similar to the seat you linked to. It's the first (and only) shield booster in the US. When are you moving back? The Kiddy World Plus is available for pre-order through Amazon now, with a release date of March 29th (though that may or may not get pushed back, who knows).

I'm not sure what the weight limit is on the Energy Pro, but the US one is only 40lbs. I'm seriously considering one for my DS, but I'm a little worried about the weight limit, personally. Also, my DS is still rear-facing (he'll be 3 in a couple weeks).
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
In most, if not all, states, it's illegal to use foreign car seats.

That said, the odds of an office noticing are slim, and most states have pretty laughable penalties for car seat violations.

I'm generally not a fan of people using imported seats, but I'm also not going to try too hard to talk people out of it.
 

lenats31

New member
How big are the boys?

If they are still very young, then I would leave them behind and get seats that face the rear of the car in the USA. The reason is the same as the one that is often mentioned here. Neckloads. They are still too high in this type of seat. This was proven in Germany a couple of months ago.. where a young child broke his neck while seated in a seat like these. Loads on the stomach is also mentioend as a risk factor.
 

christineka

New member
How big are the boys?

If they are still very young, then I would leave them behind and get seats that face the rear of the car in the USA. The reason is the same as the one that is often mentioned here. Neckloads. They are still too high in this type of seat. This was proven in Germany a couple of months ago.. where a young child broke his neck while seated in a seat like these. Loads on the stomach is also mentioend as a risk factor.

Can you post a link to this please? I want to read.
 

lenats31

New member
Can you post a link to this please? I want to read.

whish it was written in English. It isn´t. It´s in German.

What passes with flying colours and what doesn´t depends on what is tested and meassured. Neck loads are lower in impact cushion seats but not below the limit for dangerous injuries. But the loads on the stomach and the inner organs are higher.

But a nice exsample of the stomach loads, can be found in what boosters are made to protect. The lapbelt should be placed across the hips and not on the stomach so that the inner organs are much less likely to suffer any injuries. Injuries t the stomach can have serious to fatal consequenses for a child. 5 point harnessed seats protect the stomach very well. I have no comparison between the two types of seats tough.

So there are more reasons to keep a child in a rearfacing seat than most think. They restrain the children much more effectively and they protect the entire child extreemly well even in most rearimpacts accidents,which often happen at low speed.
 

sailingdaddy

New member
posts 18-19 + the long reply from Kiddy

At just 40 km/h + internal injuries to the stomach
http://www.facebook.com/kiddy.de/posts/265119420198037


Also take time to read the post after Kiddys reply, where Alexandra Schreiner writes about Pre-Impact-Braking. This whole post is very good.

Pre-Impact-Braking is a large contributor to why RF seats outperform FF seats also in side-impact collisions, in real-world scenarios.

Personally I would never let my kids ride in ANY FF seat under the age of 4, but I think these new shield seats are especially dangerous because they try to position themselves as an alternative to rear-facing, and parents are misled into believing its as safe (or almost) as RF for 2-year-olds for example.


/Marcus
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
sailingdaddy said:
Also take time to read the post after Kiddys reply, where Alexandra Schreiner writes about Pre-Impact-Braking. This whole post is very good.

Pre-Impact-Braking is a large contributor to why RF seats outperform FF seats also in side-impact collisions, in real-world scenarios.

Personally I would never let my kids ride in ANY FF seat under the age of 4, but I think these new shield seats are especially dangerous because they try to position themselves as an alternative to rear-facing, and parents are misled into believing its as safe (or almost) as RF for 2-year-olds for example.

/Marcus

I haven't read the links yet but will take a look when I have the chance. The Kiddy rep told me (and others here) that FF in their seat is as safe (or safer? I don't remember now) as RF for a kid over 1. I was so shocked that I asked her to repeat it.
 

mykidsmylife

Well-known member
So from what I am reading, it is stating that these numbers come from improper installation of the KIDDY.

Kiddy considers a child sleeping and laying their head on the shield to be out of position and this could be dangerous in a collision...


Here is a response from Kiddy,



Comparison of child restraint systems:

Every child who sits "out of position" may be protected by any child restraint system is well, no matter whether it is a rear-facing, braces or impact shield system. If the child is asleep and lying on the impact shield or harness when it tilts forward, it is "out of position." Now, if the random strikes, and there is a serious accident, no manufacturer can avoid no matter what system this probability and provide 100% protection. No manufacturer can simulate such cases a sleeping position. The only way to avoid over-front sink, would lie in a connection of the head on the seat, which in turn would have serious consequences in a frontal collision. It is also true. And adults injure themselves seriously when they put their feet on the dashboard and therefore "out of position" sit so bad and terrible this case, the paralysis of the child and the parents, is, one must be knowingly, that the child has survived thanks to a kiddy seat of the accident at all. Even if this risk of "out of position" to be smaller, perhaps with a rear-facing system (even where there are "out of position" options), a rear-facing system contains two additional for the child at least as harmful threats: namely, the risk of misuse, because the installation is very complicated, and therefore can occur much more mistakes, which the child can be extremely fatal. In addition, there are no rear-facing system for the child seats from a year ago, which is a very good test results in particular in the side impact protection. But it is now even statistically proven that the worst injuries occur in a side crash, as the crush zone is much smaller. Kiddy has sold his 45-year history, hundreds of thousands of child seats. The described case of you is the only known case of severe injury in a child restraint seat. We take this as a manufacturer of single case very seriously and work very closely with the University of Hanover, to recreate the circumstances and analyzed in order to improve our products even further. As already mentioned you have to be glad that the child has survived at all given the severity of the accident. It took them but no broken neck, but a cervical injury. love kiddy fans. Dear Alexandra, too kiddy has previously built a long time and a lot of rear-facing seats and sold. As we but the catch-body system considered above all for the better system to keep (better side impact protection, significantly lower misuse risks, faster installation in the vehicle), we have stopped production of these seats. Since we find it, however great the way you you for Parental interest in the car and committed, we invite you, especially you Michaela, a very warm welcome to further discussions in our factory, so you can make yourself a picture of the very high technical level of our children's development office. An appointment you can arrange any time with Patrick Findeiß under number 09281 / 708,058th love Michaela, regarding your next question of pollution we share with you further, that all of the market kiddy car seats, the current European emission regulations, which sucked in the . REACH are set. More information, you will receive you with your visit to our factory.


The other posters are talking a lot about rear-facing and Swedish statistics etc....
 

tarynsmum

Senior Community Member
I refuse to believe that a *properly installed* rear-facing seat is less safe than a shield booster (Kiddy or otherwise). It just doesn't make sense, physics-wise. In this instance, Kiddy isn't comparing apples to apples. I can see how there are decreased neck loads in a 5pt harness vs a shield booster, but I absolutely cannot wrap my head around how a 2 year old (for example) would be safer in a shield booster than rear-facing seat (provided they were both installed and used correctly.).
 

lenats31

New member
I haven't read the links yet but will take a look when I have the chance. The Kiddy rep told me (and others here) that FF in their seat is as safe (or safer? I don't remember now) as RF for a kid over 1. I was so shocked that I asked her to repeat it.

I guess there is nothing that can stop them from advertising for their products no matter what they must say in order to get a sale
 

lenats31

New member
I refuse to believe that a *properly installed* rear-facing seat is less safe than a shield booster (Kiddy or otherwise). It just doesn't make sense, physics-wise. In this instance, Kiddy isn't comparing apples to apples. I can see how there are decreased neck loads in a 5pt harness vs a shield booster, but I absolutely cannot wrap my head around how a 2 year old (for example) would be safer in a shield booster than rear-facing seat (provided they were both installed and used correctly.).

There are other risk factor to be considered before you go ahead and buy a shield seat. injuries to the stomach is just one of them.
One more is mentioned on the debate with Kiddy
 

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