Dorel compliance dates and model #s

Pixelated · Jan 24, 2012

Just got off the phone with a VERY helpful Dorel cs rep.:thumbsup:

It is my pleasure to share the following useful information. It's only about the 18th time I've asked for it, in various ways

Scenera -
*compliant as of Jan 13/2011 for model # 22101
*compliant as of Dec 7/2011 for model #22118 (black I think)
*compliant as of Dec 8/2011 for model #22118 Margo colour (pink?)
- physical change on some was no cup holder anymore as the change in shell shape prevented the cup from fitting/working there

OnSide Air
*compliant as of Jan 7/2011 for model# 22142
*compliant as of Feb 7/2011 for model# 22141
*all other model #s are compliant

High Rise -
*compliant as of 9/26/2011

Designer 22s -
*appear to be compliant; no date was listed for this one as she thought the existing D22 was already compliant...and no label change required? So perhaps anything requiring the handle up (this is my guess, cs rep agreed)

Pronto -
*compliant as of Oct 6/2011 for limelight
*compliant as of Dec 7/2011 for pink
*compliant as of Oct 11/2011 for irondale

Summit -
*compliant as of Aug 8/2011 for model #22559
*compliant as of Oct 7/2011 for model #22806 (glenso colour)
*compliant as of Nov 10/2011 for model #22806 (Vancouver colour)

selinajean · Jan 24, 2012

Thank you so much!

The "starter" that is in the travel system is different than the D22, correct? Any word on that? If not, I will add to this once I hear back from the cs rep that I just spoke to.

canadiangie · Jan 24, 2012

Yay for transparency! Kudos to Dorel for offering this up.

I hope you don't mind I copied your post and put it into my notes.

I'm going back to rep you now.

. Eta: I've given out too much, so I'll make a note to rep you in the next few days. It's the least I can offer for your dedication to this.

Pixelated · Jan 24, 2012

canadiangie said:
I hope you don't mind I copied your post and put it into my notes.

Not at all. Send it far and wide - and correct any typos in the 'colour' names, I'm not very familiar with them.

Pixelated · Jan 24, 2012

selinajean said:
Thank you so much!

The "starter" that is in the travel system is different than the D22, correct? Any word on that? If not, I will add to this once I hear back from the cs rep that I just spoke to.

She had no info on the infant seats at all.

selinajean · Jan 24, 2012

Josh at Dorel just called me back. The model of infant seat from the "sprint" travel system that I called about is NOT compliant. He said that they don't have a date on this one and it has to be dealt with on a case to case basis. When I explained that this system was advertised in the national Zellers flyer this week (it's not just my store having issues!) he said, "oh man, one minute" and put me on hold again. I think they are starting to understand that someone high up at this store is not taking the issue seriously.

Back off of hold, he is going to talk to the product manager and dig in to this some more. He doesn't know if there is a 2012 complinat version of this system at all so they need to do some research and will get back to me.

snowbird25ca · Jan 24, 2012

At least the manufacturers themselves are going to check in to things if the retailers are failing to do so. The tone of the last reps comment implies to me that he's concerned about it as well.

And as they should be - ultimately they are their seats being sold...

selinajean · Jan 24, 2012

snowbird25ca said:
At least the manufacturers themselves are going to check in to things if the retailers are failing to do so. The tone of the last reps comment implies to me that he's concerned about it as well.

And as they should be - ultimately they are their seats being sold...

He kept saying that the store can't legally be selling them, and that the Dorel warehouses themselves were cleared out. I think I finally got the point across that something is wrong in the Zellers system. A stop sale is NOT coming up when people are buying these items, they are still getting shipments from somewhere within HBC and they are advertising this seat nationwide. This is a BIG issue. (I also mentioned that Dorel's customers deserve to get the latest and the greatest, not last year's technology. They are currently being offered seats which can't legally be sold.) I wouldn't be surprised if they (DJG) have a legal obligation to do something about this.

canadiangie · Jan 24, 2012

Pixelated said:
Not at all. Send it far and wide - and correct any typos in the 'colour' names, I'm not very familiar with them.

I won't send it to anyone. Just for my own use.

snowbird25ca · Jan 24, 2012

selinajean said:
He kept saying that the store can't legally be selling them, and that the Dorel warehouses themselves were cleared out. I think I finally got the point across that something is wrong in the Zellers system. A stop sale is NOT coming up when people are buying these items, they are still getting shipments from somewhere within HBC and they are advertising this seat nationwide. This is a BIG issue. (I also mentioned that Dorel's customers deserve to get the latest and the greatest, not last year's technology. They are currently being offered seats which can't legally be sold.) I wouldn't be surprised if they (DJG) have a legal obligation to do something about this.

And this is the reason why people who have called to ask about if a specific seats for sale is compliant have been told that any seat for sale is compliant. The manufacturers have all gone through the process of clearing warehouses etc etc - as far they're concerned, every retailer out there got the same memo as them and has taken the info they've provided to them and isn't selling the non-compliant seats.

I'm glad that the guy finally understood what you were saying. I don't think they have any kind of legal obligation because they have no control over their product once it is in their "customer's" hand - in this case the customer being the retailer. They can't be held legally liable when they have taken measures that makes them believe the non-compliant seats aren't available. If they could, it would give a retailer a lot of power that they shouldn't have...

Keeanh · Jan 24, 2012

Awesome Jen! Thanks.

selinajean · Jan 24, 2012

snowbird25ca said:
And this is the reason why people who have called to ask about if a specific seats for sale is compliant have been told that any seat for sale is compliant. The manufacturers have all gone through the process of clearing warehouses etc etc - as far they're concerned, every retailer out there got the same memo as them and has taken the info they've provided to them and isn't selling the non-compliant seats.

I'm glad that the guy finally understood what you were saying. I don't think they have any kind of legal obligation because they have no control over their product once it is in their "customer's" hand - in this case the customer being the retailer. They can't be held legally liable when they have taken measures that makes them believe the non-compliant seats aren't available. If they could, it would give a retailer a lot of power that they shouldn't have...

No, but now they are aware that the seats are being sold illegally and also advertised in a nation-wide flyer. I didn't mean that they would be held liable but perhaps they have an obligation to get on the horn with HC about this and file a report. Maybe, just maybe, HC will take action if the manufacturer complains. (Wishful thinking, I know.)

Pixelated · Jan 25, 2012

Trudy mentioned elsewhere that the bar code shape has changed between new and old seats, at least on the Scenera. So here are two, same model number, different DOMs. The newer one is compliant.

selinajean · Feb 1, 2012

The confusion continues. Despite this list, our Zellers continues to stand firm that their seats are compliant. I typed out an email to Dorel 2 days ago as I wanted to have this in writing. In the email I included this list and asked them to confirm the information and make any changes that are needed. Well, their team leader just called me and he says that he has no clue where this list came from as he does not have any such thing. I asked him if the list that retailers were sent could be released for public use and he informed me that the customer service team does not even have access to this. :thumbsdown: Further, he checked a couple of the model numbers and dates on the list and said that they are way off. He said that some of their seats were actually compliant back in 2007, before they even knew anything about the changes that were coming. AND he said that the seat that I called about last week is in fact compliant, even though I was told on the phone that it isn't. I think my head might explode.

Pixelated said:
Just got off the phone with a VERY helpful Dorel cs rep.:thumbsup:

It is my pleasure to share the following useful information. It's only about the 18th time I've asked for it, in various ways

Scenera -
*compliant as of Jan 13/2011 for model # 22101
*compliant as of Dec 7/2011 for model #22118 (black I think)
*compliant as of Dec 8/2011 for model #22118 Margo colour (pink?)
- physical change on some was no cup holder anymore as the change in shell shape prevented the cup from fitting/working there

OnSide Air
*compliant as of Jan 7/2011 for model# 22142
*compliant as of Feb 7/2011 for model# 22141
*all other model #s are compliant

High Rise -
*compliant as of 9/26/2011

Designer 22s -
*appear to be compliant; no date was listed for this one as she thought the existing D22 was already compliant...and no label change required? So perhaps anything requiring the handle up (this is my guess, cs rep agreed)

Pronto -
*compliant as of Oct 6/2011 for limelight
*compliant as of Dec 7/2011 for pink
*compliant as of Oct 11/2011 for irondale

Summit -
*compliant as of Aug 8/2011 for model #22559
*compliant as of Oct 7/2011 for model #22806 (glenso colour)
*compliant as of Nov 10/2011 for model #22806 (Vancouver colour)

Brianna · Feb 1, 2012

What a run-around... I would ask them to type up everything they said to you verbally and e-mail it to you, then forward it to Dorel. I'm not sure what your wiretapping laws are like- could you record any future conversations and play it back for Dorel/ Health Canada?

Keeanh · Feb 1, 2012

Oh nice.

Did Dorel even test all their seats?

I don't know who's making a bigger mess of this. Health Canada by bringing compliance into this (rather than just saying "you can't sell expired seats"). Or Dorel by not changing their model #s. Ugh. What a mess.

On a related note, there's this tall, young guy with short wavy hair at Zellers who gave me a couple "looks" when I was in the car seat aisle. Wondering if he's the manager

. They're totally annoyed with us, Selina.

selinajean · Feb 1, 2012

Brianna said:
What a run-around... I would ask them to type up everything they said to you verbally and e-mail it to you, then forward it to Dorel. I'm not sure what your wiretapping laws are like- could you record any future conversations and play it back for Dorel/ Health Canada?

That was Dorel that I spoke to. They are the ones that are saying this list that Jen was provided with is incerrect and that we have to call about each individual seat with model number and DOM. They can not give us general info about any of the seats. :thumbsdown:

Keeanh said:
Oh nice.

Did Dorel even test all their seats?

I don't know who's making a bigger mess of this. Health Canada by bringing compliance into this (rather than just saying "you can't sell expired seats"). Or Dorel by not changing their model #s. Ugh. What a mess.

On a related note, there's this tall, young guy with short wavy hair at Zellers who gave me a couple "looks" when I was in the car seat aisle. Wondering if he's the manager . They're totally annoyed with us, Selina.

The manager isn't young compared to us so I'm not sure what his problem was. I'm done with this, I don't have time to chase after seat numbers any more. The Z handle evenflo is off the shelf and that is the one seat that I know wasn't compliant. The rest of them may or may not be and I am certainly not going to call Dorel with a list of details from 20 seats.

snowbird25ca · Feb 1, 2012

selinajean said:
That was Dorel that I spoke to. They are the ones that are saying this list that Jen was provided with is incerrect and that we have to call about each individual seat with model number and DOM. They can not give us general info about any of the seats. :thumbsdown:

The manager isn't young compared to us so I'm not sure what his problem was. I'm done with this, I don't have time to chase after seat numbers any more. The Z handle evenflo is off the shelf and that is the one seat that I know wasn't compliant. The rest of them may or may not be and I am certainly not going to call Dorel with a list of details from 20 seats.

Well, I would say that that list is actually pretty accurate in regard to some of the things that I know. For instance, I know that the Vancouver cover of the Summit is compliant - it's a BRU exclusive I believe.

I've sent an email to confirm that I'm right about this, but to the best of my knowledge, a seat that was made before the standards were even discussed cannot be compliant because it wasn't certified to those standards - it was never ever tested that way. You can't take a current model, crash test it to a new standard, and say that your seat that was made 5 years ago must pass because the one being made today passes. (This paragraph could be subject to change if I'm wrong in my understanding - just as a heads up - but I"ll note if it's been changed.)

That being said, I don't blame you for being done with it. I can tell you that CPSAC is currently trying to assemble a list of each manufacturer and when their seats became compliant - a list that can be "officially" released. It will take time, but it's being worked on anyways.

I wonder if that customer service rep you spoke to today was shocked that the info was public and so just denied the accuracy of it? There are models missing from that list, so it wasn't complete - but from what was listed, it matched with what I already knew. So I think you just got someone who really didn't know what they were talking about when you called today. Gotta love customer service reps huh?

selinajean · Feb 1, 2012

snowbird25ca said:
Well, I would say that that list is actually pretty accurate in regard to some of the things that I know. For instance, I know that the Vancouver cover of the Summit is compliant - it's a BRU exclusive I believe.

I've sent an email to confirm that I'm right about this, but to the best of my knowledge, a seat that was made before the standards were even discussed cannot be compliant because it wasn't certified to those standards - it was never ever tested that way. You can't take a current model, crash test it to a new standard, and say that your seat that was made 5 years ago must pass because the one being made today passes. (This paragraph could be subject to change if I'm wrong in my understanding - just as a heads up - but I"ll note if it's been changed.)

That being said, I don't blame you for being done with it. I can tell you that CPSAC is currently trying to assemble a list of each manufacturer and when their seats became compliant - a list that can be "officially" released. It will take time, but it's being worked on anyways.

I wonder if that customer service rep you spoke to today was shocked that the info was public and so just denied the accuracy of it? There are models missing from that list, so it wasn't complete - but from what was listed, it matched with what I already knew. So I think you just got someone who really didn't know what they were talking about when you called today. Gotta love customer service reps huh?

His title was Bilingual Canada Team Leader, which leads me to believe that he should have all of the info that is available to CS reps. Trudy, can you send me your email address and I will forward you the small amount of info that was in the message? (I just sent it to Jen too) He gave me the info about the 2007 seats, and the denial of the list over the phone (of course) but at least you will have his contact info.

Pixelated · Feb 1, 2012

snowbird25ca said:
I wonder if that customer service rep you spoke to today was shocked that the info was public and so just denied the accuracy of it? There are models missing from that list, so it wasn't complete - but from what was listed, it matched with what I already knew. So I think you just got someone who really didn't know what they were talking about when you called today. Gotta love customer service reps huh?

The List, as the CS rep was reading it to me, WAS complete...I just didn't ask about everything. I didn't record the models #s etc on the models that have obvious physical changes or labeling changes, like the upper FF weight limit on the Complete Air and 3-in-1s for example. I couldn't think quickly enough to get any other models though! I wish I had. I wish I'd asked if she would email or fax it to me (but not having a fax machine would have made that challenging). The way she was looking for it, talking about it, and reading it off to me sure made it sound legit. And she's literally just received it within the hour. Maybe its existence was pulled once the word got out that she 'mistakenly' released it?

Dorel compliance dates and model #s

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