Are many/any American carseat techs on board with rfing to hbb??

paintedbison

New member
I have been reading more info on forward facing harnessing and wondering what I think about the risk for injury.

We were recently rear ended. My 2.5 year old was rearfacing. My 7 year old was in a front harness. My 4.5 year old had recently broken his car seat (he pulled the foam out from under his head) and was riding in an extra high back booster we own. Of course I was totally freaked out when during the two day time span of looking for a new seat, we had him boostered instead of harnessed and were in an accident.

However, my harnessed 7 year old was the only one hurt at the scene. She was screaming with head and neck pain. It may have had more to do with the location of seats (she was the only one in the third row), but it has made me wonder.

Obviously, I know we are only one example of millions of people that are in wrecks. But, I guess it has made me take notice as I've read conflicting advice on harnessing vs. boostering.

I'm wondering at this point about moving my almost 5 year old back to rearfacing. I think he would fit in a rearfacing radian. And then going straight to a booster when he is 5ish. Any thoughts on this? Am I crazy to consider it? I was reading a lot of threads last night about Sweden, and it's got me thinking!
 
ADS

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I am not opposed on principle to RF-to-booster.

I am opposed on principle to importing illegal seats (except in a very few, very rare circumstances). And it's rare for American kids to RF in American seats to an age where I'd be comfortable with full-time boostering.

If it works, great, super. But I don't support it as an ideal, because I think we'll see a lot of 4yos in boosters, and I wouldn't want that.
 

christineka

New member
It is certainly possible with the radians and a small kid to rf until booster age. My dd is 7 and 39 pounds. She still fits rfing in a radian. My son did go from rfing in a radian to booster full time for about a month and he was great. I would consider leaving him that way if he could buckle himself and if it worked in my vehicle. Since he can buckle a 5 point harness and not a seatbelt, I choose the easy way out.
 

paintedbison

New member
I'm also not comfortable telling -- or implying -- that parents need to buy a Radian or a Foonf. A 40RF Scenera is a big purchase to some families.

If expense and availability of seats were not an issue, would you consider rf to hbb the better option? Or both equal?
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
I don't know which option I'd consider safer. My daughter is 5 years old and 37 pounds. She was rear facing until 4, then I let her choose to be forward facing. Would I have her rear facing to booster if she wanted? Sure. But my daughter is petite and would likely still fit in the Radian rear facing, then when she gains 3 more pounds, she'd likely be fine in a booster ( 5.5-6years and 40 pounds).
 

NannyMom

Well-known member
NannyMom said:
I don't know which option I'd consider safer. My daughter is 5 years old and 37 pounds. She was rear facing until 4, then I let her choose to be forward facing. Would I have her rear facing to booster if she wanted? Sure. But my daughter is petite and would likely still fit in the Radian rear facing, then when she gains 3 more pounds, she'd likely be fine in a booster ( 5.5-6years and 40 pounds).

I'm also curious as to why you didn't pit the 4 year old in the 7 year old's harness seat And put the 7 year old in the booster?
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
If expense and availability of seats were not an issue, would you consider rf to hbb the better option? Or both equal?

My kid wasn't ready for a booster until age 7.25. She's on the small side, but I don't think she would have fit comfortably rear-facing in even a Swedish seat. I am comfortable with RF-to-booster as an option for kids for whom it works. I don't think that it should be the ideal, or that forward-facing is dangerous.
 

LISmama810

Admin - CPS Technician
I think what you're really asking is about the relative safety of forward-facing harness vs booster, right? You're assuming that because your 7-year-old was harnessed and injured, and your 4-year-old was uninjured, that the booster is inherently safer?

We really have no way to know. There might be some situations where one is preferable to another, but there are no studies we can point to either way.

I personally feel it's best to keep children rear-facing as long as possible. At that point, if they are large enough and mature enough for a booster, that is a valid option, though not necessarily a better option than a forward-facing harness. I certainly wouldn't rush a child into a booster due to unfounded speculation that a harness is unsafe.

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt, and I hope your 7-year-old is feeling better!
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I'm not opposed to it when it works. There are kids it doesn't work for. We'd need cheaper bigger rf seats for me to be ok with it being the norm/recommendation. I am on board with kids rf to limits even if that means 6 or 7 for small kids but I'd never tell a family they HAVE to do that, and in fact let my own kids have some input on which way they ride after about 4.
 

tarynsmum

Senior Community Member
I think for the majority of kids it's just no feasible. As a tech, I would turn off 99% of parents immediately by suggesting it (because with the "regular" population getting a kid RF past 1 is an accomplishment). Could DD have done it? Yes, considering she fits in the Radian RF and is currently boostered half the time. Would I have? No, because it's really annoying to get her in and out of the seat when she's as tall as she is.

With DS following his growth path, he'll RF to at least 4. At that point I might put him FFing, but I KNOW he won't be ready for a booster.
 

soccer_widow

New member
For about a month or so, my DS1 was riding RF in our cars, and in a booster for carpool to school. Then, he outgrew the Radian RF by height(at age 5.5). He is now In a FF harness in our primary car, and booster in DH's car. He does great in the booster around town, but for longer drives he needs the harnessed seat.
 

nmb

New member
I personally feel it's best to keep children rear-facing as long as possible. At that point, if they are large enough and mature enough for a booster, that is a valid option, though not necessarily a better option than a forward-facing harness. I certainly wouldn't rush a child into a booster due to unfounded speculation that a harness is unsafe.

:yeahthatlove:

I think the kids at the highest risk of neck injury in a FF harness are those that are too little to be remotely safe in a booster -- the toddlers whose heads are still such a large percentage of their overall size and whose necks are still largely cartelage (sp?).

The same group that benefits the most from continuing to rear-face.



Your daughter's neck pain could have been caused (or worsened) by the harness.
Or it could have been just caused by her position.
The only way to know would be to recreate the exact wreck with her in a booster instead.


The only accident I've been in since my son was born was when he was 1.5 yrs old. He was RF; my husband in the back passenger seat next to him; I was driving. We were rear-ended, low speeds. My husband had a sore/stiff neck and shoulders for about a week, started the a day or two after the accident, not the day of. I had no such issues. Obviously, both wearing 3-point belts.... We were sitting in different places; the belts came from opposite sides. (DS started laughing immediately after the accident, he thought it was great).
 

carseatcoach

Carseat Crankypants
I personally feel it's best to keep children rear-facing as long as possible. At that point, if they are large enough and mature enough for a booster, that is a valid option, though not necessarily a better option than a forward-facing harness. I certainly wouldn't rush a child into a booster due to unfounded speculation that a harness is unsafe.

Exactly.

You ask what would we think if price and availability were not issues, but the fact is that there are going to be kids who are not ready for boosters who are too big to rear-face, even if Radians cost $60 or Multi-Techs were legal in the US. RF to booster is a safe option if the child is truly booster-ready. Forward-facing harnesses are also a very safe option. I don't know which is "better": honestly, I think they are both very very safe when properly used, and any difference would truly be negligible (and booster might be better in some crashes and harness in others, making it even more difficult to fairly compare).

My biggest fear about idealizing RF-to-booster is boostering kids who are not truly ready.
 

tarynsmum

Senior Community Member
I think for the majority of kids it's just no feasible. As a tech, I would turn off 99% of parents immediately by suggesting it (because with the "regular" population getting a kid RF past 1 is an accomplishment). Could DD have done it? Yes, considering she fits in the Radian RF and is currently boostered half the time. Would I have? No, because it's really annoying to get her in and out of the seat when she's as tall as she is.

With DS following his growth path, he'll RF to at least 4. At that point I might put him FFing, but I KNOW he won't be ready for a booster.
 

Kac

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I'm not opposed, but I'm also not comfortable with a child in a booster until 6ish, so the child would have to fit RFing until then.

I'm way more comfortable with a child who has outgrown a RFing seat to be harnessed than to be boostered unless they are over 6.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
To answer your title question, yes - I can say that if all other pieces were equal, and it was truly feasible, my preference would be rf to booster. It's what I hope to do with my own kids, rf to six and then flip, but who knows if it will happen. My reasoning is really just a personal preference thing; based on everything I've seen/heard/read I am very very pro-eeeerf and I am very comfortable with boostering (most) kids around kindergarten age, while I am a smidge squeamish about ff harness neck loads.

That said... I agree with the others that it's really not something that is feasible for the vast majority of American children. I have ff harnessed kids in my vehicle who are booster-trained, and who still fit rf'ing, for various reasons - and I know that they are all very, very safe. I don't think ff harnessing is inherently dangerous, by any stretch, and for many kids it is without question the best option. I had a 44.8 lb 3yr11mo charge, and there was no question in my mind that ff harnessing was the best option. The smidge of uncertainty I feel about neck loads is far outweighed by the benefit of proper positioning for kids too young or immature for a booster.

As for your DS, if you feel most comfortable turning him back around for a while, there is nothing wrong with that. Then you'll have the RN as a FF option if he's not booster-ready when you choose to turn him. But getting him a well-fitting combo seat is a great choice, too, and probably cheaper in the long run.
 

Pixels

New member
My preference is to RF as long as possible (within reason), then FF harness as long as possible (within reason), then booster as long as possible (within reason), per the recommendations of the AAP and NHTSA. I do not believe that FF harnessing is unsafe in any way.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I'm not particularly opposed to RF-to-Booster if a child rear-faces to age 6 and 40 lbs, but I don't think it's what I would choose to do even if I could. If my 6 year old were still small enough to RF, I would prefer a harness.

We don't really have any data to prove that one is safer overall than the other. It seems mostly like it depends on the type of accident.

I have a hard time thinking of any reason why being in a harness or a booster would make a lick of difference in a straight-forward rear-end accident. My gut feeling is that your 7 year old was hurt because she was the closest one to the point of impact. Ride-down time and crumpling cars divide crash forces and being a little further away can make a HUGE difference in how much impact is felt.

I understand there may be some advantages in the form of decreased neck load for a child in a booster in a head-on collision. On the other hand, are these advantages made up for by increased head excursion (risk of hitting head on the seat in front of the child) compared to a tethered, harnessed car seat? I don't know. I suspect that a properly used booster may have a slight advantage in this situation.

The worst accident I've been in was an end-over-end vaulting accident. For that type of accident, involving multiple impacts from various directions (front, top, sides), I am more comfortable with a 5-point harness. This is why NASCAR drivers wear full harnesses; these are the types of accidents that they get into, more often than full-frontal head-on collision types.

I also have a suspicion that a harness may have the advantage in a side-impact collision, though that's really just a barely educated guess.

I understand head-on collisions are more common, but vaulting and roll-over accidents are more deadly, as are side-impact crashes.

In the absence of any clear data pointing to anything else, I intend to follow NHTSA's guidelines (at least in the primary vehicle), which include keeping a child harnessed through age seven unless the child has outgrown the limits of his or her harnessed restraint. I may change my mind by the time I have a seven year old again, but for now that's my plan.
 

Ninetales

New member
I'm not opposed to the concept if the child is truly ready to sit properly in a booster at the time of transition.

But because our seats don't accommodate it it's not something I would push for or probably even bring up. My own child will be lucky to make it to 2 RFing at her weight. I can't afford a higher weight limit seat so and that leaves FFing in a harness as her only option.
 

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