Question Things are changing, need did vehicle

DaniCPST said:

People get off track in conversations and on a message board that is the norm...well its normal in life as well Also people getting off track will often times provide information you otherwise never would have knower thought to ask about so it can really be a good thing.

While *you* may have started the thread this is *our* message board and if you try to dictate what people are allowed to say in your threads you will find people no longer wanting to take their time to help you with your questions.

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I read that as a polite request. Not anywhere close to an attempt to dictate. She explained why she was looking at those particular vehicles and reitterated what information she was hoping for.

Melanie said:

You're right. You wouldn't be able to slide the seat with a seatbelt installed carseat. I suppose I should say that's my opinion, I haven't actually tried it in that vehicle. But it sounds like a similar set up to my old van and that's how it worked.

ETA: Now if it was LATCH installed, it might slide. Although that would depend on where the top tether is attached. If it's on the floor, you'd still be stuck in that spot. The top tether spot is actually something you may want to take a look at when you're looking at vehicles. It's much more convenient when it attaches to the back of the vehicle's seat. Some vehicle's have an attachment point in the floor or the cargo area.

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Thank you.

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DorothyoutofOz said:

OP here. Can I ask a favor of all of you? This is a vehicle suggestion thread, not a minivan debate. I am looking for constructive information on the following vehicles: Enclave, Flex, Odyssey, and Sienna. If I just do not like one of those, well, I will be looking at the Yukon XL, Sequoia and Expedition. We are a family of four with three medium-size dogs, so I am not looking at anything smaller. Would you mind terribly if we kept on-track? Thank you.

ETA: I drove a Pilot. Very nice vehicle, but I couldn't even fit the Micro double behind the third row. It piqued my interest in seeing the Odyssey, though...

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The Odyssey is going to have a number of advantages. It gets better fuel economy, in some cases much better, than any full size SUV and almost every midsize SUV.

Comparably equipped, it is often cheaper than the larger midsize SUVs and much cheaper than full size ones.

The interior room, overall interior length and cargo space are much bigger than any midsize SUV and all but the largest full size models.

Second row is fully adjustable and easily fits most 3-across carseat configurations. No midsize SUV compares and even some full size models are not as flexible here.

Third row is roomier than any midsize SUV and even some full size models. Ditto the space behind the third row, which, as in most minivans, includes a deep well that is very handy for cargo when the third row is in use.

More LATCH and top tethers than almost any SUV. Many SUVs give you the bare minimum, two LATCH and one extra top tether.

Sliding doors and low step in height make it much easier for kids to get in and out and also help in parking lots. The seats allow for easier access to the third row than most SUVs. I traded my Odyssey for a crossover. Sliding doors really are great with younger kids, and even older kids to avoid banging another car in the garage or parking lot.

If interior space is the main criteria, I think you will find only the biggest full size, truck-based SUVs (like Suburban) will compare to the Odyssey and other minivans. Smaller full size models like the Sequoia will not be as roomy. You get an idea of this on paper by looking at published specs, but if you see them in person it becomes clearer. Plus, as mentioned, the largest full size models will cost a lot more and get a lot less fuel economy, especially if you get 4WD. Their big advantage over a minivan is if you do heavy-duty towing or off-roading.

And, don't forget, the Odyssey has perfect crash test results all-around in every single IIHS and NHTSA 2011+ test. I'm not sure if any midsize SUVs can make that claim. Most full size models aren't tested by the IIHS and have minimal NHTSA test results. If crash avoidance is important, I find the Odyssey to handle as well or better than most midsize crossover SUVs and much better than truck-based full-size models I've driven. When it comes to handling, there's just no way around the physics of having a lower ground clearance, lower center of gravity and a modern, unibody chassis with independent suspensions.

I really enjoy my new midsize SUV, but it gives up a lot compared to the Odyssey in terms of seating flexibiity and interior room. The same is true of all the other midsize SUVs and some full size models, too.

You can play with various models and trim levels here, I just picked them quickly and didn't match up features as your preferences are likely different than mine. In particular, pay attention to 2nd and 3rd row legroom numbers and passenger/luggage volumes. I've chosen the smaller engines and 2WD when possible, but many people get the bigger engine options and 4WD that puts the price of the SUVs even higher and the fuel economy even lower.

http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trim...1D0,USC20FOS301C0,USC20GMS201B0,USC20TOS132A0

safeinthecar said:

I read that as a polite request. Not anywhere close to an attempt to dictate. She explained why she was looking at those particular vehicles and reitterated what information she was hoping for.

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It was a very polite request. And we are, of course, a very polite community and try to respect such requests, especially in the "upstairs" forums!

I said it upthread, but IMO the key to the OP's criteria will be the dog crates. 3 medium sized dog crates are going to be hard to get into any non-truck vehicle. For example, the Ody will take 2 large dog crates. There isn't all that much difference in the width of a large or medium crate (the difference is usually in the length and height).

bubbaray said:

I said it upthread, but IMO the key to the OP's criteria will be the dog crates. 3 medium sized dog crates are going to be hard to get into any non-truck vehicle. For example, the Ody will take 2 large dog crates. There isn't all that much difference in the width of a large or medium crate (the difference is usually in the length and height).

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If that is the main issue, I would be surprised to learn that anything other than the largest SUVs like Suburban (or Yukon XL) would have more useable interior volume or length than the Odyssey. Or is it just a matter of how they fit into the available interior space or the width/height of the rear opening or something?

Comparators like the Cars.com one I linked give a rough idea of this on paper. Obviously, if you have specific cargo or passenger needs, trying your own crates, carseats or passengers in person is the way to go.

CPSDarren said:

If that is the main issue, I would be surprised to learn that anything other than the largest SUVs like Suburban (or Yukon XL) would have more useable interior volume or length than the Odyssey. Or is it just a matter of how they fit into the available interior space or the width of the rear opening or something?

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Yes. Its hard to describe until you've tried to fit more than one dog crate into a vehicle. Most vehicles have rounded openings, whereas crates are angular objects. If its a tight fit, the shape of the opening makes a big difference.

My DH put 2 large wire crates into our neighbors 2005 Ody and it was a tight fit. Very tight. I just asked him and he is pretty sure that 3 smaller crates wouldn't fit. Its hard to say without working with the specific crates, KWIM?

OP should definitely take the actual crates with her when she tests out vehicles.

JMHO

Here is an example of what I'm talking about -- see photo 22 of 34 here:
http://www.ford.com/crossovers/flex/gallery/photos/

The rear opening of the Flex looks big -- until you start noticing how the bottom corners of the opening are angled off. And that it actually isn't all that high if you are trying to fit a box into it. The Ody has waaaaay more space for the opening itself.

The other nice feature of the Ody for loading dogs is that it is low to the ground so OP may not need a ramp -- if the crates will all fit.

If she has to stack the crates, she'll need a ramp or will have to lift the top dog. This is commonly seen at dog shows. I have seen crates stacked in a GM Safari. I also know that at least 2, possibly 3 (can't recall) large wire crates fit in a Suburban, I know a breeder who has one of those (she used to have a Safari).

I'm not going to quote you both, but thanks a bunch, Darren and Bubbaray! Very useful info.

A test drive takes a bit of planning since the dealerships are more than an hour away. I'm just trying to eliminate vehicles that clearly won't work and not overlook one that might.

Thanks, again. Very helpful!

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Anyone know a website that measures the opening dimensions of the rear hatch for the larger SUVs and minivans? Otherwise, if this is a deciding factor, trying it in person will likely rule out a lot of the options.

The other issue is the width between the wheel wells -- the Flex photo shows that factor as well (the Flex is quite narrow between the wheel wells).

Crates are a PITA to get into vehicles. Much easier to deal with their dimensions in a truck!

Most helpful. Thanks!!!

I do love the idea of the Flex and will probably still go look at one.

I appreciate everyone who has pointed out specific features in the vehicles to be sure I pay attention to in terms of cargo and seating flexibility. This will really help test drive day run more efficiently.

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Another feature to look for specifically with respect to transporting dogs in crates is air vents in the 3rd row/cargo area. If you live where it is even remotely warm, even short trips get pretty warm for the dogs if you don't have AC in the rear. I live in the Vancouver BC area (ie., not particularly warm) and it would get pretty warm (and stinky!) for the dog without vents, even for 15 min trips.

Just another feature to add to your list....

bubbaray said:

Another feature to look for specifically with respect to transporting dogs in crates is air vents in the 3rd row/cargo area. If you live where it is even remotely warm, even short trips get pretty warm for the dogs if you don't have AC in the rear. I live in the Vancouver BC area (ie., not particularly warm) and it would get pretty warm (and stinky!) for the dog without vents, even for 15 min trips.

Just another feature to add to your list....

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Already had that on my checklist. Very important for third-row riders of the human and pet variety!

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If you end up not being able to fit the crates into your top choice vehicle, you could look at other crates.

These types of crates might open up more options for you than a standard wire crate or plastic airline crate because both also allow you to load from the side:

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=20LG

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=0X69

Of course, they are soft-sided crates so whether they would contain a dog in a crash, who knows. I think a wire crate would collapse in a crash anyway. In terms of crash-worthiness for use in a cargo area (or truck bed), my money is on the FAA approved crates. I personally use crates less for crash protection and more to contain the dog (and hair) in the vehicle. YMMV.

Anywhoodle, if you can load from either the front/back or side, that allows you to configure the crates oriented front to back AND sideways. I'm actually considering getting one of the above crates to use in my RAV4. I can fit a crate sideways in the RAV4, but don't have enough room to open and close the end door, so can't actually get the dog IN the crate (and in case someone suggests loading the dog and lifting the crate in the vehicle, um, yeah -- that would be about 150lbs, and an unhappy sliding dog). The zippers door or garage style doors above look pretty funky!

I was just coming in from my car (Flex) and remembered something. The one thing I'm extremely disappointed in is how long the tires have lasted. My tires need to be replaced and it only has 25k miles. The tread has worn evenly, the factory just puts crappy tires on it. There isn't a tread wear warranty on them so I'm getting ready to fork out $800 on a year and a half old vehicle. Can you tell I'm irked? I'm not sure how you would research other manufactures. Our honda car has the same mileage and isn't anywhere near needing tires. My dad's Honda truck just got tires at 80k miles. I seem to remember my last Ford (94) needing tires early too.

bubbaray said:

If you end up not being able to fit the crates into your top choice vehicle, you could look at other crates.

These types of crates might open up more options for you than a standard wire crate or plastic airline crate because both also allow you to load from the side:

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=20LG

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=0X69

Of course, they are soft-sided crates so whether they would contain a dog in a crash, who knows. I think a wire crate would collapse in a crash anyway. In terms of crash-worthiness for use in a cargo area (or truck bed), my money is on the FAA approved crates. I personally use crates less for crash protection and more to contain the dog (and hair) in the vehicle. YMMV.

Anywhoodle, if you can load from either the front/back or side, that allows you to configure the crates oriented front to back AND sideways. I'm actually considering getting one of the above crates to use in my RAV4. I can fit a crate sideways in the RAV4, but don't have enough room to open and close the end door, so can't actually get the dog IN the crate (and in case someone suggests loading the dog and lifting the crate in the vehicle, um, yeah -- that would be about 150lbs, and an unhappy sliding dog). The zippers door or garage style doors above look pretty funky!

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I could always harness instead of crate *if* I end up with something that won't easily accommodate crates. Not my preference, but an alternative. Thanks for the crate links, too.

Melanie said:

I was just coming in from my car (Flex) and remembered something. The one thing I'm extremely disappointed in is how long the tires have lasted. My tires need to be replaced and it only has 25k miles. The tread has worn evenly, the factory just puts crappy tires on it. There isn't a tread wear warranty on them so I'm getting ready to fork out $800 on a year and a half old vehicle. Can you tell I'm irked? I'm not sure how you would research other manufactures. Our honda car has the same mileage and isn't anywhere near needing tires. My dad's Honda truck just got tires at 80k miles. I seem to remember my last Ford (94) needing tires early too.

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My mom's Taurus always had problems with the tires, iirc. Thx for the heads up!

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My 2005 Ody needed new tires after a year too (about 25,000 kms). It is very common now that OEM tires are crap and wear quickly.

I just saw this thread and haven't read all the posts but want to comment on Odyssey tires. We love our Ody. It's an '06 Touring (7 seater). It holds an incredible amount with the 3rd row folded down. DH has always had a truck but unless he is getting something messy, he often uses the van to transport things. We don't have dogs though so I don't know about crates. Tires are something to watch out for with used Odys. Ours came with PAX run flat tires standard. This was the only option for a few years on the EXL and Touring models. They suck. Yes, if they "go flat" you can drive 50 miles, but where do you drive to? Only a few places actually have the equipment to remove these tires from the rim. You don't have a spare. Apparently they normally just send a pre mounted one to replace it which might take days. Not fun. Worse yet, these tires cost about $350 EACH and wear out very FAST, as in 25,000-35,000 miles. They are also hard and made it a fairly rough ride and the steering wheel would shake which we discovered is a common complaint with them. We replaced the rims and tires with normal ones for around $1200 and love them and now it's perfect. It's just something to consider and watch for. Do a search on de-pax odyssey on google and you will find lots of info.

MommyShannon said:

I just saw this thread and haven't read all the posts but want to comment on Odyssey tires. We love our Ody. It's an '06 Touring (7 seater). It holds an incredible amount with the 3rd row folded down. DH has always had a truck but unless he is getting something messy, he often uses the van to transport things. We don't have dogs though so I don't know about crates. Tires are something to watch out for with used Odys. Ours came with PAX run flat tires standard. This was the only option for a few years on the EXL and Touring models. They suck. Yes, if they "go flat" you can drive 50 miles, but where do you drive to? Only a few places actually have the equipment to remove these tires from the rim. You don't have a spare. Apparently they normally just send a pre mounted one to replace it which might take days. Not fun. Worse yet, these tires cost about $350 EACH and wear out very FAST, as in 25,000-35,000 miles. They are also hard and made it a fairly rough ride and the steering wheel would shake which we discovered is a common complaint with them. We replaced the rims and tires with normal ones for around $1200 and love them and now it's perfect. It's just something to consider and watch for. Do a search on de-pax odyssey on google and you will find lots of info.

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Thx! Someone had mentioned this about the Sienna, but I am glad to know to to watch for it when we look at the Odyssey, too.

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If anyone else with an Enclave/Traverse/Acadia can share your experiences, I would appreciate it.

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