How many of us have own/do own or have encountered a short strapped Radian?

mommamea · Nov 7, 2007

By their very small strict definition of defect, it's not. IF you define defect to mean that they had specifications that said produce X car straps, and they produced Y straps, that's a "manufacturing" defect. To design X straps and produce X straps is not... but if those straps don't do what the design *goals* (height and weight) then that's a design defect.

For example: An architect could design a house, and say "hey people are about 6 feet tall, so I'll make the ceilings 6 feet high"... the builder builds 6 feet high ceilings for the home owner, the builder did not make a "defective" product... but who the **** is a 6 foot ceiling going to work for? The architect is at fault, or the designer that decided that those short straps would work for a 49" child - it's a design defect... but SK doesn't care about the design defect, they just care that's it's not a manufacturing defect. The builder just says "The architect said 6 foot ceilings would be fine!"... and he's off the hook??

But if I can't live in the house, or if I can't use the straps for my 42" child, then I still contend that there is a defect, just farther up the chain.

MommaMea

hipmaman said:
Not according to Russ' latest email to me because it was not a manufacture defects.

hipmaman · Nov 7, 2007

mommamea said:
By their very small strict definition of defect, it's not. IF you define defect to mean that they had specifications that said produce X car straps, and they produced Y straps, that's a "manufacturing" defect. To design X straps and produce X straps is not... but if those straps don't do what the design *goals* (height and weight) then that's a design defect.

Oh, I don't think he was playing right and wrong terminology. He does not seem to admit any defect at all.

Btw, not that it matters or that I want to take the discussion off topic... I think it is a manufacture defect instead of design defect. The design is still the same for 48 lbs and 65 lbs, only a certain batches happened to have manufactured with the same straps but shorter. Isn't that manufacture defect?

snowbird25ca · Nov 7, 2007

hipmaman said:
Not according to Russ' latest email to me because it was not a manufacture defects.

I was not going to air emails between him and I, but I'm beyond being discreet for his sake...

Thank you for your email. The Radian48 harness straps are not a 'manufacturing defect'. The original lenght of the Radian48 straps were based on anthropometric data for average sized children 5 to 48 lbs in weight, as well as measurements from the ATD's (anthropomorphic test dummies) used in crash testing. While the decision was made to increase the length of the harness straps for higher capacity occupants, some of the Radian48 seats manufactured in August, 2006 were made with the original length harness straps. Our Canadian distrbutor is working to accommodate the preference of some people who prefer the longer strap length.

Feeding me the same crap as in the letter PJM sent.

and let's add to that that there is no 5yr old 48b dummy... And it's likely the 6yr old AMD woudn't fit a short strapped seat. I'd actually love to see the 6yr old AMD in a short strapped seat just to see... of course that's not the kind of thing any of us have access to.

CDNTech · Nov 7, 2007

I honestly don't think it matters if it was supposed to be short strapped or not in the first place... if the seat does not fit your child and your child is within the parameters you should be getting a replacement.

I would personally be taking it back to the store and exchanging it for a non-short strapped one... skip SKJP and all the hassle that way.

I also wanted to point out that not every seat fits every child. This whole my child won't fit is not just the Radian's issue. My 5 year old outgrew his Marathon while technically still within the parameters. He was 43" and the seat goes to 47 or 49", but he was too tall and can not use it anymore... is that a defect?

snowbird25ca · Nov 7, 2007

hipmaman said:
Oh, I don't think he was playing right and wrong terminology. He does not seem to admit any defect at all.

Btw, not that it matters or that I want to take the discussion off topic... I think it is a manufacture defect instead of design defect. The design is still the same for 48 lbs and 65 lbs, only a certain batches happened to have manufactured with the same straps but shorter. Isn't that manufacture defect?

I'm in agreement that it's a manufacture defect - if it was truly the design, then all seats manufactured up to a certain date would've had "X" length straps and starting the new date all seats would've come with "Y" length.

And as far as I'm concerned, he really needs to address how he figures the short strap harnesses fit the 6yr old AMD. Because if a kiddo is outgrowing the seat at 43lb and 41", that is a long ways away from the limits of the seat that it was supposedly "designed" for. And if it doesn't fit the 6yr old AMD, how does he explain that one? That would be either a definite design defect & call into question all the crash testing done on their end, or else they put the wrong length harness on, and that's a manufacturing defect.

One way or the other, the seats are defective coming from the factory. And not all of the seats sold in that time period came with the same problem. July has regular length straps. Sept has regular length straps. The 65lb legislation didn't take effect until May 1st and wasn't announced until may 5? It was in the pipes for a long time, but still...

Russ has told numerous people, myself included, that a few seats were accidentally shipped with shorter harnesses. So how do they move from an "accidentally shipped with shorter harnesses" to a "purposeful design but we'll fix it if you have a problem with a tall skinny kid fitting the straps." (provided you jump through hoops a through z perfectly and remember to dot your i's and cross your t's)

mommamea · Nov 7, 2007

Exactly!!! That's my point. If the seat doesn't fit a child that it's supposed to, then the company needs to do something, regardless of how you or they define it.

I hope that more people have success with exchanges, it just annoying that the data won't get back to the company (cause most exchanges just go in the trash!)

I'm so glad that everyone's help me get mine exchanged. I'm glad we all care so much (do you know how many people have just told me to put DS1 in a booster/seat belt)... He's 3 years old!!!!

Keep up the good work ladies!

aidensmom02 said:
I honestly don't think it matters if it was supposed to be short strapped or not in the first place... if the seat does not fit your child and your child is within the parameters you should be getting a replacement.

I would personally be taking it back to the store and exchanging it for a non-short strapped one... skip SKJP and all the hassle that way.

hipmaman · Nov 7, 2007

aidensmom02 said:
I would personally be taking it back to the store and exchanging it for a non-short strapped one... skip SKJP and all the hassle that way.

I would if I could, but all CTs about 30 minute radius of me are all out.

snowbird25ca · Nov 7, 2007

aidensmom02 said:
I also wanted to point out that not every seat fits every child. This whole my child won't fit is not just the Radian's issue. My 5 year old outgrew his Marathon while technically still within the parameters. He was 43" and the seat goes to 47 or 49", but he was too tall and can not use it anymore... is that a defect?

While a good point, I suspect that the seat was outgrown by slot height and not because the straps wouldn't fit around him despite the slot being above his shoulder.

CDNTech · Nov 7, 2007

snowbird25ca said:
While a good point, I suspect that the seat was outgrown by slot height and not because the straps wouldn't fit around him despite the slot being above his shoulder.

Actually at 36lbs and 43" tall, the strap length was pretty much at the end... I think I had about two inches of play left in it when *not* wearing a jacket... and yes, he definitely outgrew it by slot height thanks to that long torso.

I need to go measure our Radian's strap lengths... I'm curious to know what the length is on a normal one now since the leftover strap we have on the Radian is close to two feet long.

mommamea · Nov 7, 2007

snowbird25ca said:
I'm in agreement that it's a manufacture defect - if it was truly the design, then all seats manufactured up to a certain date would've had "X" length straps and starting the new date all seats would've come with "Y" length.

To be clear, I DO think it's a manufacturing defect. I can just see how a marketing department can write the document that says it's "not a defect" (I've spent WAAAY too much of my life with market-droids, so I know how those documents get written... they don't want to admit ANYTHING).

snowbird25ca said:
Russ has told numerous people, myself included, that a few seats were accidentally shipped with shorter harnesses. So how do they move from an "accidentally shipped with shorter harnesses" to a "purposeful design but we'll fix it if you have a problem with a tall skinny kid fitting the straps." (provided you jump through hoops a through z perfectly and remember to dot your i's and cross your t's)

A change in story is NOT a good thing.

God, talk about hoops... the instructions for sending it back are crazy...

"
Car seat return must follow all procedures below:

- Return must be sent ‘Freight Paid’. ‘Freight collect’ returns will be refused.
- Return must be sent by UPS, Fed Ex etc… with delivery verification
- Return must be packaged in a suitable manner to avoid damage in transit
- Car seat must include all the original components and cover
- Car seat must have the serial number sticker affixed and in legible
condition clearly showing Model #, Date of mfg and serial number
- Car seat must be in usable condition with no signs of abuse or any damage
rendering it unusable
- Return must include copy of signed and properly completed RA form 48A
- Return must include original purchase receipt clearly showing name of
purchaser, date of purchase, name of seller, and price paid.

Important: Any returned car seat not meeting all of the above criteria will not be processed and will not be sent back.
"

So I have to PAY to send it (and do what with my 3 year old in the mean time?), and if I'm wrong, they don't even promise to send me back MY bought and paid for car seat!!!! :hitselfonhead:

And hipmaman: I wish I could afford to mail you one from the CT's in our area. We have lots!:doh:

Jewels · Nov 7, 2007

mommamea said:
From the word doc:
"We apologize for any confusion or inconvenience experienced with your Radian seat. We understand that your Radian seat may have been mistakenly advertised as a ’65 lb capacity’ seat, when it is really a 48 lb capacity seat. <editorial - I knew nothing about this>

Transport Canada recently increased the allowable capacity of harnessed child restraints to a 65 lb occupant. Anticipating this, Sunshine Kids phased into the Radian design longer harness straps and during a transition in manufacturing, some of the Radian48 models still had the original designed shorter harness straps installed. Please note, there is absolutely no compromise regarding the safety of Radian48 models with the original length straps. These seats can be identified by their 6 digit harness lot ID number (either 452280, 487599, 436235 or 493361) printed on a label sewn into the end of the car seat shoulder harness strap. <editorial - so they admit it!>

The Radian was NEVER advertised as the Radian48. The box my Radian came in says it is a Radian65. Why would they make a seat for sale in the US and then put shorter straps on it for CDN resale

That just doesn't make sense. Plus my DEC06 DOM Radian has really long straps.

*I might just go pull it out of the vehicle and measure them so we can compare.

CDNTech · Nov 7, 2007

Okay... I got out the regular strapped Radian I have and measured the harness... it is 36" long... which means it is approximately 5" longer than the short strapped ones.

I'm pretty sure my tall, skinny child (36lbs, 45") would *just* fit into a short strapped Radian based on where the yoke is when the harness is tightened. He is still 1.5" away from the top slots. I'm not sure what normal sized child would actually fit into a short strapped Radian.

Jewels · Nov 7, 2007

mommamea said:
Important: Any returned car seat not meeting all of the above criteria will not be processed and will not be sent back.

So they are going to steal your seat

That doesn't sound right. I think something needs to be done here.

mommamea · Nov 7, 2007

Jewels said:
The Radian was NEVER advertised as the Radian48. The box my Radian came in says it is a Radian65. Why would they make a seat for sale in the US and then put shorter straps on it for CDN resale That just doesn't make sense. Plus my DEC06 DOM Radian has really long straps.

*I might just go pull it out of the vehicle and measure them so we can compare.

I know. Confusing isn't it?

I would love to swap measurements with you! But the difference was immediate when I went back to the store. When the straps are pulled ALL the way through on my old one the clips barely reach to the side of the seat. The new one they hang over by inches... I actually used to wonder what the velcro was for, cause my straps didn't go out much farther than the little velcro squares... now I get it!

canadianmom2three · Nov 7, 2007

At the absolute limits of his short strapped Radian, my DS was 45lbs, 45" tall and with a maybe 15.5" torso...he was fine when it was on the second from top slots, but as soon as I put it up to the top (cause he had gone over the others) that was when it got really tight...he had to wear only thin t-shirts, no fleecy sweaters!!! I tried a couple months ago to jam him into it, cause we were flying down to Florida and I wanted to bring the Radian but I didn't want to have to un-install the good one from our van and then re-install it back into the van at the end of a long vacation, and there was NO WAY he fit into that thing. At that point he was wavering right between 48-50lbs depending on the day's food intake, and had not been acurately measured for height in a long time, but was EVEN with the top slots (so guessing about 17" torso. Technically he was RIGHT at the upper limits for Canadian use by weight, and still had a bit for height (assuming use beyond the top slots) and there was absolutely no way he would fit into the seat.....

snowbird25ca · Nov 7, 2007

mommamea said:
God, talk about hoops... the instructions for sending it back are crazy...

"
Car seat return must follow all procedures below:

- Return must be sent ‘Freight Paid’. ‘Freight collect’ returns will be refused.
- Return must be sent by UPS, Fed Ex etc… with delivery verification
- Return must be packaged in a suitable manner to avoid damage in transit
- Car seat must include all the original components and cover
- Car seat must have the serial number sticker affixed and in legible
condition clearly showing Model #, Date of mfg and serial number
- Car seat must be in usable condition with no signs of abuse or any damage
rendering it unusable
- Return must include copy of signed and properly completed RA form 48A
- Return must include original purchase receipt clearly showing name of
purchaser, date of purchase, name of seller, and price paid.

Important: Any returned car seat not meeting all of the above criteria will not be processed and will not be sent back.
"

bolded points are ones that concern me most..not counting the paying shipping part... How do they define usable? What if the cover is stained? I understand them not wanting to replace a seat that the owner already can't use because they've damaged it, but what all are they looking for?

And how many CT's do you know of that put all that info on the receipt. (Unless you've bought online...) That requirement basically means that everyone who has bought a seat at CT can't meet all the requirements to have the return processed. :thumbsdown:

canadianmom2three · Nov 7, 2007

REally, There is no way they should be getting away with that...as if all the rest of it isn't enough if you don't meet the requirements sorry, you don't even get your seat back

:thumbsdown:

hipmaman · Nov 7, 2007

mommamea said:
And hipmaman: I wish I could afford to mail you one from the CT's in our area. We have lots!:doh:

Where are you located? I might have to get my relatives in several cities onto the Radian-hunting fun

Thanks.

canadianmom2three · Nov 7, 2007

I have been trying so hard to stay away from CT - I do NOT need another seat - but I see online ours is supposed to have stock. Maybe it is a sign that I should go buy it...if it is a long strap one left, it might make an excellent Xmas gift for someone

canadianmom2three · Nov 7, 2007

It's actually showing up at all kinds of stores near me, maybe it is a bit misleading, although it says they've updated on Nov. 6th.....I may just have to check it out tomorrow

How many of us have own/do own or have encountered a short strapped Radian?

How many short strapped Radian's are there in Canada?

I own/owned a short strapped Radian

I saw a display Radian that was short strapped

I know someone who owns/have owned one(who is not on this board and will not be answering this poll)

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