2012 Mini Van Confusion!

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

Hi All,

We are breaking down and looking into getting a mini van. We are looking for an overall safe van that works well with car seat installs. We checked out the 2012 Ody and Sienna a few days ago. We were really liking the Odyssey until I was reading online about their transmission problems that have been going on for years. They even have a website about it http://www.odysseytransmission.com/ Now we are back to being very confused.

What I liked best about the Ody is the middle seat in the second row (8 seater). It looks so substantial and even has latch. Since we only have one kid at the moment, I want his seat as central as possible for safety reasons, and this looked perfect. Oh well.

The Sienna's second row middle seat (8 seater) did not look as substantial, did not have latch. Can you honestly really install a car seat in it safely? The salesman said I could use the outer latch connectors from the side seats to install in the middle, but that sounds completely wrong to me. So I do not think he knows what he is talking about (correct me if I am wrong about that). Would a seatbelt install work?

What would you suggest for us? Is there another van that is as safe and would suit our needs? Would waiting for the 2013 models help us in any way (will Sienna's 8th seat come with latch next year)?

Thanks!!

QuassEE · Dec 30, 2011

IME? It seems like all cars over the last 12 or so years have crappy transmissions. My idea was to buy standards, and then last week I found out that my son's car (a manual transmission) needs a rebuild because of the syncros. My 2011 Odyssey stutters between 2nd and 3rd in this weird dead zone of transmission sleepiness. I had a Mazda Tribute and the tranny went months after I sold it to friends, two years ago. My XC90 differential went earlier this year. My 1989 Landcruiser is going strong..go figure.

It's just one of those things you need to plan for, these days. Put $3000 aside (more if you get a BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, etc) for that rainy day. It will come. It doesn't seem to matter what you're buying these days, I just think that the Odyssey got a little bit more of a reputation because of the clearly flawed transmissions in that 2nd generation vehicle. The Volvo XC90 T6 is notorious for this, too, which is what I had...It wouldn't scare me away from buying another XC90, though, because otherwise it's a great car.

Fortunately some manufacturers are providing parts for free if you complain loudly enough, but you'll still be on the hook for labour.

-N.

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

Thanks for your response QuassEE. It's so terrible to spend so much money on something that you know is going to break! I am upset to hear your 2011 Ody is already showing signs of a faulty transmission. At how many miles did this start? The trouble is we would really be pushing to the top of our budget already... So it's tough to imagine needing more money for repairs like that. And to think the transmission could break so early is disturbing.

I really really like everything else about the ody, so it is very frustrating!

tl01 · Dec 30, 2011

I agree with Quasee. My 2011 ody does a strange thing like hers with the tranny... But I agree that trannies are just cheaper nowadays. I think the fancy computers in then messes them up to. That said, our odyies have a totally different tranny than the ones everyone is worried about since we have the 6 speed. Honda eventually worked out the tranny issue in the previous generation. I can tell that most every car... Rental or my own has tranny issues. I'd buy the extended warranty Honda care. You can negotiate the price and if you don't live in Florida or California you can buy it through a particular dealer who sells it for an amazing price.

QuassEE · Dec 30, 2011

Mine started to stutter at about 30,000km. It doesn't actually concern me--it's a lease, and when my lease is up I'll turn it in and get something else. We may actually even be turning it in early because we're moving. Honda's problem after I turn it in, not mine.

-N.

Freekel · Dec 30, 2011

I have a 2009 that I bought new and it has 34,000 miles on it and I have never had a problem with mine. Isn't it under warranty for awhile anyway?

tl01 · Dec 30, 2011

I have had two 2011 odyssies with the 6 speed tranny and they both have had the same issue. I also am not worried at all. Both started at around 6k miles. Honda thinks it is the torque converter and is working on it... A Honda America rep I met with says that Honda acknowledges this issue and is working on a solution. He said he noticed it on a company car he drove. If there's a serious, widespread issue Honda will fix it out of warranty too as they have in the past.

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

tl01 said:
I I'd buy the extended warranty Honda care. You can negotiate the price and if you don't live in Florida or California you can buy it through a particular dealer who sells it for an amazing price.

I do not live in Fl or CA. Who is the dealer that sells it for an amazing price?

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

QuassEE said:
Mine started to stutter at about 30,000km. It doesn't actually concern me--it's a lease, and when my lease is up I'll turn it in and get something else. We may actually even be turning it in early because we're moving. Honda's problem after I turn it in, not mine.

-N.

I have never leased a car before - but in a situation like this it must feel better knowing it is leased. Maybe that is something we should consider as well... I don't want to end up buying a lemon and having it be my problem. It's not like we have the money to throw another vehicle to replace the ody if it fails us. Any tips about leasing?

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

tl01 said:
I have had two 2011 odyssies with the 6 speed tranny and they both have had the same issue. I also am not worried at all. Both started at around 6k miles. Honda thinks it is the torque converter and is working on it... A Honda America rep I met with says that Honda acknowledges this issue and is working on a solution. He said he noticed it on a company car he drove. If there's a serious, widespread issue Honda will fix it out of warranty too as they have in the past.

Interesting that they know there is a problem. Maybe we should wait a year before buying (or even leasing?). Although, from that website it looks like they have been having transmission problems for over a decade on Odies. If they have not figured it out by now, make me wonder if they will ever get it right/know how to fix it. I am sure it's not ALL the cars, but it seems to be a large number of them that suffer from this.

I have not heard anything about Sienna's having trans issues... I just don't know how it would work with the car seat. Any one have insight into my Sienna questions about the 2nd row middle install? I could get over the style preferences/fuel eff for the Ody if the car seat situation was to my liking in the Sienna.

mkmama · Dec 30, 2011

If your heart isnt set on a new vehicle, you might look at 2005-2010 Toyota Sienna's...they had a much larger 8th seat that IS totally useable for either car seat or an adult (and does have LATCH). Im not sure about tranny problems in those overall, but ours just rolled over 100,000 miles and no problems yet.

As for using one of the outer anchors from each outside seat...that is called LATCH borrowing, and is generally disallowed. There are a few vehicles that allow it (not certain if Honda is one of them or not), but not many. However, the child car seat manufacturer must also allow it, which again, not many do. So in some cases it is allowed, but typically is not...requires the right combination of car and car seat.

tl01 · Dec 30, 2011

elyrayday said:
Interesting that they know there is a problem. Maybe we should wait a year before buying (or even leasing?). Although, from that website it looks like they have been having transmission problems for over a decade on Odies. If they have not figured it out by now, make me wonder if they will ever get it right/know how to fix it. I am sure it's not ALL the cars, but it seems to be a large number of them that suffer from this.

I have not heard anything about Sienna's having trans issues... I just don't know how it would work with the car seat. Any one have insight into my Sienna questions about the 2nd row middle install? I could get over the style preferences/fuel eff for the Ody if the car seat situation was to my liking in the Sienna.

All cara have their own issues. I know the new sienna has issues with the sliding doors. I personally wouldn't hesitate to buy an ody if it is the car you prefer. I leased my first 2011 ody and bought my second. I have a 6 year 120k mile warranty on it. The fact that Honda acknowledges the issue means they will likely come up with a solution.

One dealer with great prices is bernardi Honda. I'll try to find the name of the other one.

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

After reading all these responses, I am thinking we have 3 option:

1) Lease the 2012 Ody
2) Buy the 2012 Ody with the Honda plan
3) Buy a used Sienna 2010 or earlier (Hubby is really anti-used car for some reason. I might be able to change his mind, bit not sure)
4) Do nothing - wait and see if our 2nd car can live long enough to see an Ody with no trans issues or new Sienna with better LATCH and 8th seat

Any suggestions what we should do? We have a one year old and plan to have another in the coming couple of years. Our income is very low for the next 3.5 years, then we should see a very significant increase (hub is finishing up training then and will get a "real" job). We have some savings, but not so much that we are comfortable purchasing a pricey car if there will be pricey repairs.

I also have some general questions about leasing - who pays for maintenance (oil change, flat tires, etc all the way up), if something big breaks (let's say the tranny) what happens then, are insurance rates higher or lower than if you purchase, do you pay sales tax, and are things like state registration costs the same as if you own? Finally, how do you know if you are getting a good lease price?

elyrayday · Dec 30, 2011

Wow, I was just trying to read about how leasing works and it is very confusing! Yikes. May not be my best option since I can not even understand how it works.

jjordan · Dec 30, 2011

Honestly, with only one kid and a low income for the next 3.5 years, I'd stick with whatever vehicle you have now, assuming it runs, and wait and buy something new later. There is certainly no rush to get a big, new, expensive vehicle with only one child.

tl01 · Dec 30, 2011

elyrayday said:
Wow, I was just trying to read about how leasing works and it is very confusing! Yikes. May not be my best option since I can not even understand how it works.

I'm happy to explain how leasing works... Or me know where you get confused...

sfaqt18 · Dec 30, 2011

I want to know about leasing too! I'm wary of it but looking into it.

tl01 · Dec 30, 2011

I posted about leasing in the other leasing thread.

elyrayday · Dec 31, 2011

tl01 said:
I posted about leasing in the other leasing thread.

Cool. Thanks. I will check it out.

elyrayday · Dec 31, 2011

jjordan said:
Honestly, with only one kid and a low income for the next 3.5 years, I'd stick with whatever vehicle you have now, assuming it runs, and wait and buy something new later. There is certainly no rush to get a big, new, expensive vehicle with only one child.

Yeah, I hear you. Our reasons for trying so hard to find the right vehicle come from a few different places.

One is straight up safety - our vehicles are 10 and 15 years old, so we have been doing without lots of the newer safety features, including side airbags (I SO wish I had those!).

Second is having a baby probably make everyone feel this, but along the lines of what is above is this new sense of responsibility and the desire to (over?) protect.

Third is my hub's car is a volvo at 100k but 15 yrs old. It has been giving us trouble, broke down stranding him on the highway once already, and it is unclear if we can even keep it passing inspections. Our state is very strict and has been making out life so difficult trying to pass. Even once we pass, we have to do it all again in 2 years. Anyway, a volvo we feel like this car could run forever or could totally bomb out on us any moment.

Forth, we are going to frequently be driving up to grandma's house, about 3.5 hours each way. Would be nice to know we are not going to break down.

The final part is the hardest. We don't know the best vehicle for us or the best way to get our hands on it (lease/buy new/buy old). Since we do not have much money these days and it will be like that for a few more years, whatever we do needs to be able to accommodate any changes to our family as it grows, since buying another car will be out of the question.

That's our thinking laid out. But yeah, maybe we are being overly cautious etc. I just do not know.

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