Me too - Just got off the phone with Michelle

MsFacetious

New member
She called to tell me of this new release that only seats after 6/18 are affected. She said they still "meet" standards used before that. She said MEET not EXCEED which does concern me.

I told her that many people were suspcious of this and upset about it.
I told her that if we knew WHY the change was made that would help us a lot to make a decision.
I told her that this was causing a lot of bad press for Britax and that people were going with Sunshine Kids and Recaro instead.
I told her that now would be a great time for Britax to release the reason for the change. With this new article out about Cosco and Evenflo it would make Britax look really good. To come out and say no kids were hurt it's just an enhancement and this is WHY we are doing it. People would be a lot more understanding if they knew exactly why the change was made.

She did say she doesn't have that information but did say the side collapsing was not true. It really seems to be related to head excursion. I told her that it would make a huge difference to many parents if we were talking about a 6 inch difference vs a 1 inch difference. I know I would feel more comfortable using the Regent long belt path, no recline bar and tethered if I knew it was a one inch difference.

I told her that we buy Britax because they exceed safety standards not because they meet them. That if I wanted something that met standards I would buy Cosco.

She said if they release that information it will be on the website. I told her that other manufacters release that information so people are going with them instead because they feel they can trust them more. I reiterated that this was causing a lot of bad press and now would be a great time to come out and explain it.

My memory is bad so I may have forgotten some things I told her but I tried to address all of the things I had seen brought up on here. Knowing I wouldn't get any answers but knowing she would pass it on to management.

Still frustrated but I'll deal with it. At least she was nice and kept in touch with me.
 
ADS

nurse_reedle

New member
We seem to all be getting a call back this afternoon!

I was told a few minutes ago by Angie at Britax, that Michelle is at her desk. She has been there since noon making calls back to people. I am supposed to get called back "soon" since I have been waiting since last week.
 

gwenvet

New member
She called to tell me of this new release that only seats after 6/18 are affected. She said they still "meet" standards used before that. She said MEET not EXCEED which does concern me.

Sorry, I'm confused...which seats or installations only MEET and do not EXCEED safety standards?
 

MsFacetious

New member
Using the manual we got with our seats before 6/18 MEET standards. The short belt path 40-80lbs, long belt path 22-39lbs and recline bar mandatory apparently exceeds it. I'm not sure.

It just bothered me that Britax is supposed to exceed standards and she said it meets them the old way. If I wanted a seat that MET standards I wouldn't have bought Britax because I thought they exceeded them.
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
If I wanted a seat that MET standards I wouldn't have bought Britax because I thought they exceeded them.

I still don't get where this whole "exceeds standards" thing came from. I've only ever seen the phrasing, "Meets or exceeds" FMVSS blah, blah, blah.
 

AdventureMom

Senior Community Member
FYI, for those of you waiting for calls, I was at our local BRU today and asked the dept mgr about the new info. He said that he didn't know anything about the new info b/c he's been on the phone all day, trying to reach Britax. He said he has left messages, etc, with questions about the advisory, what to do with the other seats, questions from customers. And like mgrs of other stores, he has yet to get through to someone. I think they're absolutely swamped... Think of all the folks trying to reach them: many of the owners, plus the retailers, trying to get through with questions. I'd hate to be this Michelle person during all of this... :eek:
 
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snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I agree and personally think the changes are more about head excursion than anything else - the lbp creating an effect similar to the radian's safe stop. I also believe that the seats still meet FMVSS standards or else they wouldn't be telling people it did, plus if it wasn't meeting FMVSS standards, they would have to have a recall.. while this has the markings of a recall, the NHTSA hasn't been involved - meaning there isn't any known safety issues that have been brought forward. Who knows, maybe the regent even exceeded the FMVSS standards with the old instructions. There's just no way to know...

My own little theory is that britax is testing the regent to try and get it within head excursion limits for Canada. (We have lower head excursion allowances that have to be met for a seat to pass standards.) If this is the case, they should just tell everyone why the advisory was given. Just this past May Canada's law was changed to allow 65lb max weight limit for ff'ing seats and there was a thread awhile back asking about a rumor that the regent might become available in Canada. So far as I know , it's just a rumor - but if they are doing this testing, then it explains the advisory..

And also, if this is the case, and it is all about reducing head excursion, then it's understandable why the issued the advisory and the wordings of "enhancing" performance and everything.

I do think it sucks how it's been handled, and it still leaves parents in the same predicament - accept a good install knowing that the seat meets standards that way, or worry about not being able to get the enhanced safety benefits of the new instructions because the new installation instructions aren't compatible with the vehicle.

Unfortunately, without more information, many parents will feel the only choice is to either put their kids into boosters or replace the seat with another HWH. And the truth is, for all we know the regent with the old instructions exceeded standards and would continue to provide more safety to a child than a booster even when installed by the old directions.

It'll be interesting to see how Britax gets themselves out of this pickle. :whistle: All of this back and forth is bound to leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths - and a lot of confusion as to which set of instructions to trust. They really need to release more information... that's the only way most owners will feel ok with continuing to use the regent with old instructions.

I feel bad for all of you dealing with this.
 

ajweeks

New member
Are the min. US guidelines for head excursion with or without the tether? What about for a child over 50 lbs.? If you have the seat tethered, even with the LBP and no recline bar for a heavier child, would that still maybe exceed the standard due to the tether?

Is head excursion more of a problem with the Regent versus the Radian because it is so heavy? The Radian sits really upright and it has great head excursion numbers whereas the Regent has to be reclined.
 

AdventureMom

Senior Community Member
Are the min. US guidelines for head excursion with or without the tether? What about for a child over 50 lbs.? If you have the seat tethered, even with the LBP and no recline bar for a heavier child, would that still maybe exceed the standard due to the tether?

The head excursion limits are 32" non-tethered and 28" tethered. There is not a different standard for different sized children, but I'm sure it's hard to reduce the head excursion as a child gets taller and heavier...

ETA: This does concern me with a seat such as the Regent. However, what are the options? Putting a child in a BPB that's not ready? I think Russ did say that the Radian exceeds the standards even untethered. I guess that's another option. Sorry - just thinking out loud...! ;)
 

ajweeks

New member
What is head excursion for a BPB? What if a child is ok sitting in a booster and is heavier and older?

My son is good sitting in a booster and prefers it, but doesn't argue too much about a 5pt. harness. I'm wondering if I should sell my Regent and get a Radian to harness him until he is over 6 and then pass the seat down to DD.
 

Kellyr2

New member
See, i figure that by having a child in a 5 pt harness instead of a booster, we're already "exceeding." I do assume (techs, chime in!) that head excursion is less with a 5 pt. It just seems like it would be, even though the seat itself pushes them further forward. So, I figure if my seat only "meets" the head excursion limits, it's still better than a booster that meets or barely exceeds them. But that logic could be incredibly flawed.
 

AdventureMom

Senior Community Member
What is head excursion for a BPB? What if a child is ok sitting in a booster and is heavier and older?

My son is good sitting in a booster and prefers it, but doesn't argue too much about a 5pt. harness. I'm wondering if I should sell my Regent and get a Radian to harness him until he is over 6 and then pass the seat down to DD.

Interesting thought! Here's a link to ponder that shows plain ol' lap/shoulder belt had less head excursion than a booster (I just scanned the article, but it appears that being lower to the seat may be a factor...?): http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-11/childsafety/append_3.htm

A big issue I see with boosters and lap/shoulder belts is that head excursion will be much greater *if* the child isn't sitting in the right position at time of impact... which is why I want my active, wiggly DS in a 5-pt harness for awhile longer.
 
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stayinhomewithmy6

Senior Community Member
I still don't get where this whole "exceeds standards" thing came from. I've only ever seen the phrasing, "Meets or exceeds" FMVSS blah, blah, blah.

If you look at the Regent description on Britax's website, it does specifically say "exceeds US safety standards".
http://www.britaxusa.net/products/detail_regent.aspx

I don't even own a Regent, but I had to look it up just to see because I've always only seen the wording "Meets or Exceeds", but the Regent must really exceed the standards if Britax has worded it this way.
 

Morganthe

New member
If you look at the Regent description on Britax's website, it does specifically say "exceeds US safety standards".
http://www.britaxusa.net/products/detail_regent.aspx

I don't even own a Regent, but I had to look it up just to see because I've always only seen the wording "Meets or Exceeds", but the Regent must really exceed the standards if Britax has worded it this way.

The original box that the Regent arrives in has it clearly marked "Exceeds Safety Standards."

But again... by how much and which standards, it doesn't say. :shrug-shoulders:
 
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ajnashmom

New member
http://www.britaxusa.net/support/documents/REG_ConsumerAdvisory_QA2.pdf

I dont know if this was already posted. It says July 9th... but I think they added to it that it is okay not to do the enhancement... So they put it in writing... I am still left scratching my head.
I feel like I spent a lot for this seat and to have to add things here and there... adhesive tape and stickers kind of bothers me. They have also posted the instructions on how to add the enhancements... but c'mon, it is a really expensive seat.. adhesive tape and stickers??? Classy.
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
The original box that the Regent arrives in has it clearly marked "Exceeds Safety Standards."

But again... by how much and which standards, it doesn't say. :shrug-shoulders:

Exactly. 1/4" less than the maximum head excursion? "Exceeds" standards. Doesn't fall apart until .5 MPH above the minimum? "Exceeds" standards.
 

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