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  1. #1
    Carseat Crazy cdncasper's Avatar
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    Question for you all

    My friend has a little girl (like 3 wks 8 1/2 lbs) that is in a graco snugride. I got to see for the first time ever the snuzzler http://www.kiddopotamus.com/p_snuzz.php and I am trying to figure out why most people say it is really bad. I was taught that aftermarket products are bad (I am a tech) but these things are very thin under the body and don't interfer with the harness at all. I know it hasn't been tested with the seat and the flame resistant part but wouldn't the receiving blankets be the same. So what is the difference between the snuzler and receiving blankets?

    April
    mommy to K, 5 years, 41.5 lbs, 44 inches, harnessed in a Britax Frontier CT


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  3. #2
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    Re: Question for you all

    You don't put a receiving blanket under the baby either

    Seriously...it comes between the baby and the harness which is just another amount of compression that will occur in an accident. And, as you pointed out, they have not been crash tested.

  4. #3
    Carseat Crazy cdncasper's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    I totally understand the compression issue but the snuzzler is no thicker than a fleece sweater or even a baby sleeper. Very thin. And why can we use receiving blankets to help with little heads when they are not crash tested either?

    April
    mommy to K, 5 years, 41.5 lbs, 44 inches, harnessed in a Britax Frontier CT


  5. #4
    CPS Technician cryswilkins's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    My baby was such a hot box that I could not imagine her being in one of those. She would have been soaked. But I am interested to hear others opinions on these.

    Crystal, CPST Mama to Zoe 11/30/2006 , Ollie 1/3/2010 , Eli 9/24/2012 and Baby Isabel 7/23/2015

  6. #5
    CPS Fanatic MsFacetious's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    I have a friend due any day now. When she asked me to come over a few days ago to help her put the Safeseat in all of their vehicles, she also asked me about the Kiddopotamus thingie. The one that has the head support, goes behind baby, then up on either side.

    I told her that aftermarket products are not ever suggested, that anything that goes behind baby is never okay. I showed her how to roll up recieving blankets on either side of baby if she was swamped by the seat. However if the harness was tight enough she would be just fine without it. She wouldn't be moving around or anything. The head support in the seat was fine, ect.

    She also asked me about toys hanging from the handle, I told her again that they are never suggested. HOWEVER that if she would hit baby in the head with it, I wouldn't object too strongly. She picked up the toy and hit herself in the head with it... lol. It was fine. Just a stuffed duck thing. If it comes down to that or screaming baby I told her it was okay.

    I just prefer to avoid any of that stuff. But if people are going to do it anyway I like to let them know the safest way, if that makes sense.
    Ali and Sadi born 2003 - 5 stepping
    Kai born July 2015 - Foonf and spare Scenera Next


  7. #6
    CPS Technician CDNTech's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Canadian seats are only allowed (I believe this is the number quoted to me) 4 mm of padding at the seat bight/bum area of the infant carseat. That snuzzler definitely adds more than that in this area and makes it not safe. As far as it being no thicker than a fleece sweater... I'm guessing the parent is not going to dress their children in a onesie in the winter, so then you have to contend with the fleece sweater AND the snuzzler.

    I just really do not think they are needed. If the harness is tight and the infant seat is installed at the correct angle, the babies head is not going anywhere. If she wants to make it a closer fit for baby (womb like environment), then use rolled receiving blankets on either side of baby... it is the only approved method.

    As techs we need to be really careful what we are suggesting/allowing parents to think is safe. I do not think it is a good idea to say "I don't see the harm in it"... are you willing to take on that liability should something happen to the baby because you told the mom it would be okay? Just some food for thought.
    Jen, Former CDN CRS Tech
    DS1 /02, Seatbelt in the driver's seat now!
    DS2 /05, Seatbelt

    DS3 /12, Britax Frontier/Parkway SG
    DD1 /15, Rfing Peg PVC

  8. #7
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by cdncasper View Post
    I totally understand the compression issue but the snuzzler is no thicker than a fleece sweater or even a baby sleeper. Very thin. And why can we use receiving blankets to help with little heads when they are not crash tested either?
    The receiving blankets are different then the snuzzer because they aren't under the baby they should be around the baby rolled up to add the support. Also the snuzzler may not look that thick but add that thickness and what the baby is wearing and it ends up in the long run to be too thick. The problem with things being under and behind babies is that it can give the parent/cargiver a false sense of tight harness straps . . . sort of like those mats for under carseats they can give an illusion that a seat is tight and in fact it really isn't. I just wouldn't risk it.

  9. #8
    Carseat Crazy cdncasper's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    I told her both as a friend and a tech that it isn't allowed due to compression and that if she were to take the baby out of the seat, take the snuzzler out, put the baby back in and if she needed to tighten the harness than the snuzzler is too thick. I suggested the receiving blankets but that is up to her if she decides to use them or not. I can tell people what is safe but it is up to them to make the decision on what they do.

    April
    mommy to K, 5 years, 41.5 lbs, 44 inches, harnessed in a Britax Frontier CT


  10. #9
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by cdncasper View Post
    I can tell people what is safe but it is up to them to make the decision on what they do.
    Yes but sometimes explaining why something isn't safe helps them understand a bit better with why it isn't ok.

    Good for you telling her it wasn't safe though Lets hope she listens.

  11. #10
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Question for you all

    My issue with Snuzzler type things is that while they may not be very thick just laying in the car seat, I worry they will get scrunched up putting a wiggly baby in. Even maneuvering a tiny baby into the car seat is hard, especially at first, and I know I used to have a hard time just getting their clothes out of the way. So while it may be flat to start with, it will be under the baby and will be hard to tell if it is folded up in places. 1 layer of fleece might not be bad but several waded up layers is definitely a compression hazard. Honestly, I think they sound like more trouble than they are worth...
    Last edited by LeeLi; 07-12-2007 at 11:58 PM. Reason: Typo

  12. #11
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Question for you all

    If you look at the ad, it states that this thing has been crash tested. It states that for a safe harness fit, there is no padding behind the baby. Granted, I doubt is has been crash tested with every seat that it may possibly be used in.

    Their website says that many of their "carseat accessories have ungone rigorous crash tests."

  13. #12
    CPS Technician CDNTech's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    If you look at the ad, it states that this thing has been crash tested. It states that for a safe harness fit, there is no padding behind the baby. Granted, it hasn't been crash tested with every seat that it may possibly be used in.

    I wonder if we can find actually data from their crash testing.
    NO aftermarket product is crashtested with the seats to the Federal Standards. They may have personally tested the seat, but I can gaurantee it was not crash tested to the appropriate standards... just knowing how the government tests seats, there is no possible way it was crash tested the same way the government tests seats.
    Jen, Former CDN CRS Tech
    DS1 /02, Seatbelt in the driver's seat now!
    DS2 /05, Seatbelt

    DS3 /12, Britax Frontier/Parkway SG
    DD1 /15, Rfing Peg PVC

  14. #13
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    If you look at the ad, it states that this thing has been crash tested. It states that for a safe harness fit, there is no padding behind the baby. Granted, I doubt is has been crash tested with every seat that it may possibly be used in.

    Their website says that many of their "carseat accessories have ungone rigorous crash tests."
    That means nothing. It wasn't test according to federal specifications.

  15. #14
    Car-Seat.Org Zealot skaterbabs's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    If you look at the ad, it states that this thing has been crash tested. It states that for a safe harness fit, there is no padding behind the baby. Granted, I doubt is has been crash tested with every seat that it may possibly be used in.

    Their website says that many of their "carseat accessories have ungone rigorous crash tests."

    They could throw it against the wall and call it crash tested.
    Rebekah Branch, CPST from May 2005 until June 2011
    Mom to CJ (7/96, seatbelt), Gregory (4/98, seatbelt), & Joyjoy (10/03, misc. booster seats)
    "That which you create in beauty and goodness and truth lives on."
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  16. #15
    Senior Community Member MySillyKids's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by skaterbabscpst View Post
    They could throw it against the wall and call it crash tested.


    (i wanted to say that LOL!)

  17. #16
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    If you look at the ad, it states that this thing has been crash tested. It states that for a safe harness fit, there is no padding behind the baby. Granted, it hasn't been crash tested with every seat that it may possibly be used in.

    I wonder if we can find actually data from their crash testing.
    Sometimes the slots in the aftermarket products don't line up properly with the harness slots, so it changes the way the straps fit the child's shoulders. It is also an extra layer between the seat and the child, which you shouldn't do because it can compress and leave slack in the harness. Even though this looks thin I would still not use it or recomend it as it VOID's the carseat warranty because they are an aftermarket product. In states where the carseat laws are "proper use" then it is illegal to use products like these as carseat manufactures don't allow the use of aftermarket products.

    There is no testing laws for after-market products, for all we know the it was thrown against the wall and that was called "testing" The only thing that should be used in carseats is what came with the seat as the manufacturer would have tested it with that seat.

  18. #17
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
    Sometimes the slots in the aftermarket products don't line up properly with the harness slots, so it changes the way the straps fit the child's shoulders. It is also an extra layer between the seat and the child, which you shouldn't do because it can compress and leave slack in the harness. Even though this looks thin I would still not use it or recomend it as it VOID's the carseat warranty because they are an aftermarket product. In states where the carseat laws are "proper use" then it is illegal to use products like these as carseat manufactures don't allow the use of aftermarket products.

    There is no testing laws for after-market products, for all we know the it was thrown against the wall and that was called "testing" The only thing that should be used in carseats is what came with the seat as the manufacturer would have tested it with that seat.
    I know all of this.That's why I want to see specific data about their testing. They state:

    " Many of our car seat accessories have undergone rigorous crash tests by accredited United States agencies to ensure that the product conforms to FMVSS 213 standards. These products have been crash tested to the standard of FMVSS 213 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard). The FMVSS 213 crash test is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the National Highway Transportation Administration (NHTSA). Other products have been crash tested pursuant to Federal Standard 209. This rule tests the strength and safety of seat belt assemblages and is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the Department of Transportation (DOT). Kiddopotamus car seat accessories are designed with thin materials behind the harnessed portion of the baby so that the harness straps can be kept as snug as possible."

  19. #18
    CPS Technician CDNTech's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    I know all of this.That's why I want to see specific data about their testing. They state:

    " Many of our car seat accessories have undergone rigorous crash tests by accredited United States agencies to ensure that the product conforms to FMVSS 213 standards. These products have been crash tested to the standard of FMVSS 213 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard). The FMVSS 213 crash test is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the National Highway Transportation Administration (NHTSA). Other products have been crash tested pursuant to Federal Standard 209. This rule tests the strength and safety of seat belt assemblages and is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the Department of Transportation (DOT). Kiddopotamus car seat accessories are designed with thin materials behind the harnessed portion of the baby so that the harness straps can be kept as snug as possible."
    I highly doubt they meet the standards since you are only allowed 4 mm of padding between the seat shell and the babies bum... something tells me that the seat padding is 4mm.
    Jen, Former CDN CRS Tech
    DS1 /02, Seatbelt in the driver's seat now!
    DS2 /05, Seatbelt

    DS3 /12, Britax Frontier/Parkway SG
    DD1 /15, Rfing Peg PVC

  20. #19
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Question for you all

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyGirls View Post
    I know all of this.That's why I want to see specific data about their testing. They state:

    " Many of our car seat accessories have undergone rigorous crash tests by accredited United States agencies to ensure that the product conforms to FMVSS 213 standards. These products have been crash tested to the standard of FMVSS 213 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard). The FMVSS 213 crash test is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the National Highway Transportation Administration (NHTSA). Other products have been crash tested pursuant to Federal Standard 209. This rule tests the strength and safety of seat belt assemblages and is promulgated pursuant to the rule making authority of the Department of Transportation (DOT). Kiddopotamus car seat accessories are designed with thin materials behind the harnessed portion of the baby so that the harness straps can be kept as snug as possible."
    Here is another thread about this.
    And here is a great quote about the testing and wording that the company uses:
    Quote Originally Posted by o_mom View Post
    Here is what they say (wording is very important):

    "Tests performed on infant car seats with the Bundle Me® installed found that the car seats complied with the Restraint System Integrity and Occupant Excursion portions of the FMVSS 213 requirements."

    They are NOT saying that the Bundle Me passes FMVSS 213. They are claiming that they tested at least two seats with the Bundle Me installed and that those seats pass FMVSS 213 when used with the Bundle Me. Now, we have no idea what seats were tested and how many ways they were tested (every strap position, etc.) and so on, so it is still an unknown what will happen in your carseat the way you install it.

    I personally have never seen a need for one in a carseat and we get some mighty cold temps here at times.

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