Okay is anyone just P*SSED as much as I am?

jen_nah · Jul 9, 2007

Here I sit with a Regent manufactured last March installed LBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 44lb dd in dh truck. I can NOT for the life of me install this seat in this position using the SBP. The seatbelt stalk is to long even with 3 full twists. I can't move it as I have another Regent in the other outboard position installed with the SBP, recline bar & top tethered for my 42lb dd. So, I have to use SBP on both seat now.

So, Here I sit with a $280 seat that I can no longer use. I am MAD and I mean MAD. I just got off work and of course Britax closes at some stupid A$$ hours. Hello I am CST which means they close right in the middle of my work day. I can't call from work as I am working with patients.

So, Britax is now going to force me to put my petite dd who is about to outgrow her MA into a booster seat. This is beyond STUPID.

scatterbunny · Jul 9, 2007

I feel your pain. I guess I'm lucky in that I own a Husky, which apparently is different enough from the Regent to be okay using the LBP for heavier kids, but I cannot get a solid install using the SBP+recline bar in my Windstar, except in one position, due to rigid, plastic buckle stalks in the middle row and forward-of-the-bight buckle stalks in the third row. I'd be royally peeved if I had a Regent that now required SBP; Hayley would have to go outboard in the third row, which puts her too far from me for my liking, and too close to the side of the vehicle, and it blocks quite a bit of my view out the rear window. I want her in the middle row. And the Husky expires next year, so we'll need a Regent anyway, if I want to keep her harnessed as long as possible.

MsFacetious · Jul 9, 2007

Yes I am pissed off as well.

I now have two useless seats and I don't have the booster seat option. I have to get the Recaro seats, and probably Marathons to use in the meantime.

Britax needs to make this right or I will stop using them or suggesting them.

I alone have purchased 3 Marathon, 2 Wizards, 5 Boulevards, 2 Regents, 1 Companion, oh I forgot the 2 Parkways!!! Not to mention the countless others I have referred. I can think of $15,000 worth of seats I have bought or convinced people to buy from them.

So yeah, I'm pissed. Now I'm without useable seats and I can not afford to buy them right now. So what am I supposed to do?

They don't know... the supervisor is "Researching" it.

Victorious4 · Jul 9, 2007

FWIW, the rep I spoke to said the seat still passes the federal standards with the old instructions -- they're trying to "enhance" performance although performance is not lacking to begin with.... It's pretty stupid. But, if I were in your situation & you if don't think kiddo is ready for a booster, then I would continue using it with your current method of installation :shrug-shoulders: It might not be as great as if you could get it installed the way they want you to now, but if it's still passing the federal standard then I personally wouldn't switch my kid to a booster just yet

I'm not saying we should all disregard the change from Britax, but in certain situations a lesser evil is just that.

MsFacetious · Jul 9, 2007

But Tiffany.... here is the problem with doing that in my mind.

We are told that if we do not use the seat according to the manual, the warranty is void, correct?

So this means if Jen got into an accident and needed her seats replaced, her insurance could refuse to replace them because they weren't used correctly. OR if something happened to her child Britax could be free of liability because the seat wasn't used correctly.

Before I will be willing to go against the manual I want it in writing from Britax that it is okay to use the lbp for bigger kids or the spb for smaller kids. I want it in writing that it won't affect my warranty or my ability to sue someone should I need to.

If it was still acceptable then it should have said the "preferred" way to install is lbp for 22-40lbs and sbp for 40-80. But it ONLY gives those options in the new manual.

See my issue here?? We would be going against manufacters advice which is going against everything we tell people.

scatterbunny · Jul 9, 2007

But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure? I guess with all of this, I just want to know what they consider to be a "fine" performance, and what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

UlrikeDG · Jul 9, 2007

SingleMomTo2Girls said:
We are told that if we do not use the seat according to the manual, the warranty is void, correct?

So this means if Jen got into an accident and needed her seats replaced, her insurance could refuse to replace them because they weren't used correctly.

Voiding the warranty has nothing to do with collision insurance. It means if you damage the seat doing it wrong, the manufacturer doesn't have to replace/repair it.

Hypothetically, if your state has a "proper use" clause in their child restraint law, you could be ticketed for not following the instructions. However, it would be a BIZARRE set of circumstances that would lead to you getting a ticket for anything short of egregious misuse.

In today's society, juries award large settlements even to families of injured children whose seats were being grossly misused, so I doubt using the alternative belt path would have much, if any, affect on your ability to hold Britax liable in the unfortunate event of an injury- or mortality- causing crash.

For me, the biggest issues would be:
1) Does the "alternative" belt path truly provide adequate protection in a crash?
2) If it doesn't meet FMVSS, why are they saying it does?
3) If it does meet FMVSS, why, oh WHY are they making things so damned complicated with this recall, rather than simply stating, "We wanted to let you know that this way performs better, but both are acceptable?"

Victorious4 · Jul 9, 2007

scatterbunny said:
what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

Exactly. That's what they're not answering. She made it perfectly clear that it meets the standards as it was before, but couldn't/wouldn't say why they want to change it other than repeating that they want to enhance performance. This isn't an acceptable defense to me for why this happening, but without them explaining the difference in more detail I'm just not yet convinced that it's serious enough yet to warrant freaking out

I mean they can't even explain specifically why/how the Husky is so different yet they're adamant about being able to use the same old instructions for the Husky still (methinks they merely aren't testing the Husky anymore & if they're so concerned with their behinds then why would they say the Husky is safe without even knowing?) :scratcheshead: I'm personally less concerned with voiding warrantee than I am with keeping my kid buckled properly -- so I might not get a refund, but I wouldn't anyway now that there's an otherwise useless seat: if a kid cannot sit in a booster correctly, then I personally would make the parental choice to use the old method installation until/unless they explain precisely what the ____ is going on....

Victorious4 · Jul 9, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
For me, the biggest issues would be:
1) Does the "alternative" belt path truly provide adequate protection in a crash?
2) If it doesn't meet FMVSS, why are they saying it does?
3) If it does meet FMVSS, why, oh WHY are they making things so damned complicated with this recall, rather than simply stating, "We wanted to let you know that this way performs better, but both are acceptable?"

YES, yes & yes!

They gave me the run-around when I asked these questions, just kept repeating that kids have been safe the last 2 years because it still meets the standard with the old installation method, but they want to "enhance performance". Answering my question with the same words that I asked for clarification on :doh: Which is why part of my thinks it's all hogwash & if a kid is truly not ready for a booster then I'd keep using the old method *if* the new method is impossible to achieve -- either way is incorrect....

SafeandSecureBaby · Jul 9, 2007

Britax is going to be one of the last people sued, if at all, in a child injury from a car crash. You would have to show that the seat somehow under performed, or did not perform as intended to even begin thinking about suing Britax. The other driver is the better target in a lawsuit, or some road condition that caused the collision. It is important to remember that just because our children are in car seats, doesn't mean that they won't get hurt in a collision. It just means that they are less likely to be seriously injured. Not all car collisions are survivable and many will result in injury no matter how well prepared we are. Just my :twocents: on our law suit happy society.

jen_nah · Jul 9, 2007

Well I can say this "THEY WILL BE BUYING MY BRAND NEW SEAT BACK!" I will not have a seat that I can no longer use per their new instructions just sitting in my garage. I will just put Kaylee in dh truck for the time being or move her MA back and forth if need be and order a Recaro instead.

LuvBug · Jul 9, 2007

scatterbunny said:
But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure? I guess with all of this, I just want to know what they consider to be a "fine" performance, and what makes this new way "better" but the old way "fine", too.

exactly

MsFacetious · Jul 9, 2007

jen_nah said:
Well I can say this "THEY WILL BE BUYING MY BRAND NEW SEAT BACK!" I will not have a seat that I can no longer use per their new instructions just sitting in my garage. I will just put Kaylee in dh truck for the time being or move her MA back and forth if need be and order a Recaro instead.

My opinion exactly. Except that I don't have spare seats and I can't even use the Regents according to the new instructions. They are not compatible with any vehicle I can currently drive.

So I need Britax to explain to me what I'm supposed to do. And I want it in writing that the other way is equally safe. That way if it DOES fail in an accident I CAN sue them. Just like when you ask for a letter from the insurance company saying they will be responsible if they don't replace a seat and if fails in the next crash. I know you wouldn't actually sue Britax, but this is the type of thinking I have.

I'm very non confrontational. I'm just saying that I want the options there should I need them. Therefor I want it in writing that this is just as safe. I can't afford to replace these seats right now, I'll be lucky to afford the Recaros in a couple months. They need to help me because I've shelled out the money to keep my kids safe in seats that were compatible with my vehicle. Now that they have changed the rules and they aren't compatible anymore, they need to help me find a solution.

jen_nah · Jul 9, 2007

I am SCREWED all around. I just went out and was actually able to get the Regent in my Tahoe in the pass. outboard caption chair using SBP, recline bar & tt. I got a good install but I am very worried about the placement of my recline bar. I can get it in in either 2 spots. One it is sitting right on top of the lower anchors or the other is right in the seat bit.

But, No I can NOT get my MA installed in dh truck in the driver outboard or center not matter what I do. The center is a lap belt only but that long belt stalk and going under the LATCH bar I can't even get it simi tight. I am talking 5-6" side to side movement. In the outboard I can get it in tight but the belt buckle tongue is sitting right on the LATCH bar. This is with 3 full twists. It's that dang LATCH bar that is the issue.

I have pictures of the Regent in my truck to get your opinion on recline bar placements. Give me a few minutes to get them uploaded & posted.

arly1983 · Jul 9, 2007

Totally pi$$ed!

Except I feel really sorry for Jenny because I have 3 lbs in which to decide on a replacement and I am going to be able to use my Regent in my van with the new installation.

"They gave me the run-around when I asked these questions, just kept repeating that kids have been safe the last 2 years because it still meets the standard"

"But aren't federal standards only for seats up to 65 pounds? So essentially, Britax just assures us that the seat performs fine for kids over that weight, but we don't know for sure?"

How can they be saying it meets "standards" when there aren't any?

I am, ummmm, thinking very interesting thoughts....

sb518 · Jul 9, 2007

If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

arly1983 · Jul 9, 2007

tumblebug518 said:
If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

Until the product update kit is received, consumers should take the following action to
ensure their Regent is installed properly for enhanced performance:
Installation Method
Child’s
Weight LATCH Lap-Shoulder Belt Lap Belt
22 – 40 lbs Until update kit with new
LATCH connector is
received, use the
alternative long beltrouting
method of
installation for either lapshoulder
belt or lap-belt.
Use long belt-routing
method of
installation. Top
tether recommended
and recline bar
required.
Use long belt-routing
method of installation.
Top tether
recommended and
recline bar required.
40 – 80 lbs Use LATCH in short beltrouting
installation. Top
tether is recommended
and recline bar is
required between
40 – 50 lbs. Top tether
and recline bar are
required over 50 lbs.
Always check your
vehicle manufacturers’
guidelines for maximum
LATCH anchor weight
limits.
Use short belt-routing
installation method.
Top tether and
recline bar required.
Use short belt-routing
installation method.
Top tether is
recommended and
recline bar is required
between
40 – 50 lbs. Top tether
and recline bar are
required over 50 lbs.
The current LATCH connector is acceptable for use in the short belt-routing installation
for children weighing 40 to 80 pounds, however the length of the connector will not
allow for the long belt-routing LATCH installation for children weighing 22 to 40 pounds.
Until the longer LATCH connector is received with the product update kit, consumers
are advised to use the long belt-routing method using either the vehicle lap-shoulder
belt or vehicle lap-belt for enhanced performance.
Instructions for the long and short belt-routing methods can be found with this letter and
on www.BritaxUSA.com.
Please feel free to contact Britax Consumer Service, 1-888-427-4829, if you need further
assistance.
Sincerely,
Britax Child Safety, Inc.

sb518 · Jul 9, 2007

bah that's lame!

jen_nah · Jul 9, 2007

tumblebug518 said:
If you haven't recieved written notification from britax about the change then how are they to say you weren't using the seat correctly to void the warranty? If you are going by the manual instructions until you are notified by writing that it has been changed I personally would keep doing what I've been doing. It's all on britax for now and until they personally give you the recall/changed instructions what else are you to do?

While true but I am still going to be faced with these issues either now or in a couple weeks. So, It really doesn't change the situation I am in. I have 2 children that are over the 40lb weight limit and a vehicle that is no incompatible with 2 of my Britax seats and now I am being forced to put my almost 6yr old, 44lb & 44" daugther that I feel is not ready for a booster in one. To me this is not a fair to have to put one of my children in a less protected seat b/c Britax just all of the sudden 2yr later decide it's time to change the manual and retro all the Regents. If I had known this I would have NEVER bought a Regent. I would have hunted down a Husky since there were some still available when I bought my Regent last year.

Jeanum · Jul 9, 2007

P*SSED is not strong enough a word, Jen_nah, I feel your pain. I spent a half hour fiddling in the heat with the Regent in the third row center in our '05 Sienna this evening, trying to get as rock solid a short belt path seatbelt installation as I had with the long belt path seatbelt installation. It's almost as rock solid, but the female buckle stalk is practically through the belt path opening even when I twist the stalk the maximum 3 times.

:thumbsdown: I'm concerned it would be very easy to accidentally unlatch the seatbelt when DD1 climbs in and out of her seat or possibly drops a story book through the belt path opening onto the buckle, grrrr. I haven't tried a second row installation or third row outboard installation yet because the heat was really getting to me even with a cold gatorade.

The buckle stalks in the second row and third row passenger side are different from the third row center. They're metal instead of twistable webbing. Maybe the stiffer buckle stalks will make a difference, maybe not. I'm ticked, to say the least, and strongly inclined to consider other options (not that there are many harnessed alternatives for a long torsoed 45+ lb. 5 year old), or to reinstall the Regent with the long belt path exactly the way it was before.

Okay is anyone just P*SSED as much as I am?

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