Question Moving from RF - possibly to Britax Frontier 85?

My son is 23 months old, 31 lbs and 38 inches tall (he's off-the-charts tall). He is currently in a Britax Roundabout 50 rear facing but is getting close to both the height limit (extremely close) and weight limit (which is 35 lbs). I have begun to consider what to do next and would love some advice! Some things I have been considering:

1) Turn around the Roundabout, use it for a while FF (limit is 50 lbs FF).
2) Find and buy a seat that has higher RF limits. Obviously, Id love to keep him RF as long as possible but it looks like most seats would only keep him RF'ing a short while longer and I worry about them fitting in my 09 Subaru Outback (the Roundabout barely fits in the middle and its a small seat). Someone mentioned that because he is so big, its not as unsafe to have him FF - is that true?
3) Buy a FF seat that is safe and easy and long lasting. I have been looking at the Britax Frontier 85 and love that it has the high 5 point harness limits and that it can be used as a high-back booster until 5'5" or 120 lbs. Id imagine we'd get a ton of use out of this seat.

Id love any opinions on what would be safest, etc. Any opinions/advice on whether its safer to have my son FF in the Roundabout or in the Frontier 85? Opinions on the Frontier 85?

Thanks for any help!

I would very much prefer to see a not-quite-2yo or newly 2yo RFing. Size has nothing to do with it -- he has the skeletal maturity of other children his age, even if they are smaller (or larger).

Can you post a picture of him RFing in the seat? MOST 38" children do fit RFing in that seat with an inch of shell over their heads. If he is truly outgrowing the seat, I would recommend purchasing a seat in which he can continue RFing.

I am not moving him yet because he isn't at the limits yet. I want him RF as long as his Roundabout 50 permits. With how much he already weighs (a little over 31 lbs - although I wouldnt be surprised if he's gained since the last weigh-in) and his height, I would imagine that in the next few months (maybe 4 or so - so DS would be 2 yrs 3 months+) he will outgrow the 35 lb RF limit and/or height limit.

I started doing research now mainly because 1) I am a planner and want to know what the best option is when the time does come and 2) with the holidays coming up, it might be a good time for me to find a deal (or ask for it as a gift since it would make me happy to have DS be safe!)

For a just-turning-2-year-old, I'd absolutely buy a seat with a higher rf weight and height limit rather than turning him. The good news is that most kids slow down their growth a bit once they have turned 2, so you may have quite a bit longer in his current seat than you thought. Also, make sure that you're measuring his height correctly (perpendicular to the back of the car seat, not parallel to the ground). How upright/reclined is the seat installed? If you can install it a little more upright (no more than 30 degrees from vertical) you also may gain some height room.

If he does indeed hit the limits and you need to buy a new seat, I'd look closely at a Diono/Sunshine Kids Radian. They are very tall seats and some have rfing limits of 45 pounds, which would gain you quite a bit more time before you had to turn him ff. It should also get him to a reasonable booster age ffing in the harness. The new ones turn into boosters; the older ones are likely to be on sale relatively cheaply due to the company name change.

As for the difference between the Boulevard ffing and the Frontier, there is no safety difference between the two as long as he meets the size and age requirements specified by the manufacturer for that particular seat. It doesn't matter if it's a ffing convertible or a combination seat; they all have to pass the same standard safety tests.

My grandson has a Frontier 85 which I love. He calls it his "comfy seat". It's also the only harnessed seat that he still fits in at 6 years old. He's currently boostered in some vehicles but the harnessed seat is so much more comfortable for long distance travel. So I'd definitely recommend it as an excellent seat - just not for a 2 year old.

My just turned 2 1/2yo almost has the same stats as your kiddo (he's 32lbs and 37"). He's always had a crazy long torso but once he hit 2yo his torso just stopped growing and for the past 6 months all he's grown is legs and really hasn't put on any weight either (he used to gain like 3lbs every month or two). There's a recent pic of him in my siggy in his MA (same as the RA50). I thought for sure by the way he used to grow that he'd never even make it to two in this seat but here we are and now I'm thinking he may make it to three in this seat or at least pretty darn close. I guess we shall see. With all that being said we do have a 2 Sunshine Kids Radian 80sl's (they RF to 45lbs) ready and waiting for when he does outgrow his MA's.

zactayaus said:

My just turned 2 1/2yo almost has the same stats as your kiddo (he's 32lbs and 37"). He's always had a crazy long torso but once he hit 2yo his torso just stopped growing and for the past 6 months all he's grown is legs and really hasn't put on any weight either (he used to gain like 3lbs every month or two). There's a recent pic of him in my siggy in his MA (same as the RA50). I thought for sure by the way he used to grow that he'd never even make it to two in this seat but here we are and now I'm thinking he may make it to three in this seat or at least pretty darn close. I guess we shall see. With all that being said we do have a 2 Sunshine Kids Radian 80sl's (they RF to 45lbs) ready and waiting for when he does outgrow his MA's.

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This is good to know! My son eats like a horse and although everyone said his weight would slow down at 1, it seemed to pick up! I hope the same happens to him and we can extend the Roundabout for a long time! Its a good seat and fits well in my car and my son likes it.
I was warned that the Sunshines are hard to fit RF in the 09 Outbacks but havent tried myself so I was scared that there wouldnt be a good option for keeping him RFing. At least a 45 lb limit gives a lot more room for growth.
At what age/size, etc is FF safe? Is it more based on size or age/skeletal maturity as the previous poster mentioned (ie when is the skeleton mature enough to handle FF)?

Hi there!

My kid is also off the charts big. He was beefier than yours: 30 lbs and 36" at his 12 month check up, he was 36 lbs and I wanna say 38" at his 24 month check up. Now at almost 3 years he's 40lbs. We are big people: I'm 5'9" and his dad is 6'9", so we expect a big kid, but the growth curve between 1 and 3 looks *nothing* like the growth curve that first year.

The AAP's recommendation for remaining rear facing is 24 months; that is about age and bone maturity, NOT size. The young toddler's spine is just not ready to hold a head up in a crash (we are born with spaces in our spine to grow just like we are born with spaces in our skulls to grow). Rear facing is 500% safer than forward facing, and that benefit does not stop at 24 months, so all children should be rear facing as long as possible. In my family I'd like to have children rear facing until age 4, but that may not be possible... but the 24 months thing is non-negotiable.

More rear facing information here. I highly recommend you show the crash test videos to any skeptics--it's just very clear that riding backwards in a crash offers more protection of anyone's spine. I'm a particular fan of the final video on that page: http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/

I have a Radian (actually I have two). It is hands down the best seat for me and my kid: he's happily rear facing at 2 years 10 months, 40+ lbs and 41ish inches (and I do mean happily--he can't sleep forward facing, so rear facing lets us take road trips). But, my kid outgrew many seats rear facing after his 2nd birthday. Those seats were: the MyRide, the Triumph 65, the Marathon 70. He didn't make it to 2 years 6 months in any of those seats, but he did make it past 24 months. All of those seats will fit in an outback.

I put a RF Radian outboard behind the passenger seat in a 2010 Outback a few weeks ago and I was astonished: it fit like a dream. I rode in front of it, it didn't touch the seat back (there are advanced airbags so I didn't want to touch the seat). It fit so well (and my super tall husband fit so well) that we're seriously thinking an Outback is our next car purchase since we could use the all wheel drive. I installed it very upright: if you get a radian it would be good to look up a tech from this board to help you get it upright. The Radian isn't a beginner's seat, so lots of 'regular' techs at fire stations might be befuddled by it. I'm a tech because I needed to know so much to keep my big guy safe!

I don't know what year the Outbacks changed: there might be a difference between the 2009 Outback and the 2010 outback. But know that with my ginormous family, an outback and a radian have been a good fit. Also know that I'd wager you'll get 6-12 months rear facing out of a MyRide or the like (which is still a good deal at $100-140, in my opinion). 500% safer is darn tough to argue with.

whitdog23 said:

I was warned that the Sunshines are hard to fit RF in the 09 Outbacks but havent tried myself so I was scared that there wouldnt be a good option for keeping him RFing. )?

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Hi there and welcome!

I don't know exactly what the issue is in Rfing a Radian in an 09 Outback, but Diono (formerly Sunshine Kids) just came out with an angle adjuster that will allow rearfacing installations easier [hopefully] by providing a more upright install for older toddlers and providing an additional 4” of more room behind the front seats for more front leg room.

It's not available for sale yet [but should be soon]. Here is a link: http://us.diono.com/en/car-seat-accessories/angle-adjuster

whitdog23 said:

At what age/size, etc is FF safe? Is it more based on size or age/skeletal maturity as the previous poster mentioned (ie when is the skeleton mature enough to handle FF)?

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Between ages 4-6. Here is a link from another thread discussing the bones of the neck beginning to fuse between 4 and 6; thus better protecting the cervical spine.
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=178578&highlight=fuse

HTH

carseatcoach said:

I would very much prefer to see a not-quite-2yo or newly 2yo RFing. Size has nothing to do with it -- he has the skeletal maturity of other children his age, even if they are smaller (or larger).

Can you post a picture of him RFing in the seat? MOST 38" children do fit RFing in that seat with an inch of shell over their heads. If he is truly outgrowing the seat, I would recommend purchasing a seat in which he can continue RFing.

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It's not unheard of for a kiddo who's 38" tall to have outgrown a Britax seat rearfacing by height--if they are longer torsoed, it's even pretty likely. My now 3 yr old outgrew the Blvd (and then the FPSVD, which as the same as the Roundabout 50 and was made by Britax) by height at 26-27 mos old and 36" tall.

If you have the $$ to purchase a Frontier, then you also would have it to purchase the Radian. I would pick the Radian, esp if you are worried about weight. If the Radian doesn't work for you, or you'd like to spend a little less right now, in order to save up for the Frontier that will likely need in the future for this lil dude w/the long torso, you could also look at the Safety First Complete Air and the Learning Curve True Fit. The True Fit only has a 35 lbs rearfacing weight limit, which I thought wouldn't last my guy long if I got one...but here he is over 3 yrs old, and he's grown taller and longer torsed, but has lost weight. He only weighs 33 lbs w/clothes on right now. At 23 mos, he was about the same weight as your little dude.

I'd keep him rearfacing for at least another year.

hths

henrietta

henrietta said:

It's not unheard of for a kiddo who's 38" tall to have outgrown a Britax seat rearfacing by height--if they are longer torsoed, it's even pretty likely.

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I do recognize that it's quite possible, but I also recognize that sometimes it's difficult to gauge exactly how much shell is remaining -- I've often seen parents fearing a seat is outgrown, but a good accurate measure shows 2" or more of actual shell. A picture would help.