Elementary School Principal told my sis not to worry about seats (during school event)

equilibrium · Oct 19, 2011

My sis in law phoned me and left a message yesterday. Local BC elementary school-in school time event out of town for track and field. My niece is in grade 3. My sis-in-law offered to drive a couple girls. My niece is about 45 lbs maybe, skinny little thing and she is in a nbb and a hbb depending on the vehicle they are in. My sis said that one girl was really small. Much smaller than my niece. One was a bit bigger. She went to the school to meet and pick them up and drive them (30 minutes, Hwy). They did not have boosters. They are all about 8. My sis was upset as well as another mom about it. I am not sure if the parents are signing waivers or whathaveyou.

My sis goes to the principal and says these girls do not have booster seats. He proceeds to tell her don't worry about it, they are pretty much old enough and just put a seat belt on them. The principal. She is very upset. She went home and got the other booster she had and put the smallest girl in her van with the seat. The other girl went with a seatbelt because she wasn't sure what to do. She was really upset over it. People listen to the principal as he is an authority figure.

This seems wrong in so many ways. I need advice on how to proceed with this. This is the same school as my kindergartener goes to. I am considering helping her write a complaint to the school board.

Thanks for any input.

QuassEE · Oct 19, 2011

I had a similar battle with our school district..twice! Once when it was legal to drive an infant in a seatbelt, and once since the new booster law. The fact is this: the principal is right--it's not REALLY the school's problem. Your sister-in-law is the one who broke the law by driving them. Parents do sign waivers, but usually this includes some sort of booster statement. What district are they in?

-Nicole.

equilibrium · Oct 19, 2011

Nanaimo District 68.

When on earth was it legal to drive an infant in a seatbelt!?

QuassEE · Oct 19, 2011

It was legal for non-parent drivers to drive infants over 20lbs in seatbelts prior to the new law. So this meant lots of 4 and 5 year olds on fieldtrips with seatbelts only.

I can help you with the district if you want. The best route is to go to the Superintendent and then cc a few key district people, plus the principal. But ultimately, if parents are willing to drive kids illegally the school district can claim ignorance. It all comes down to what the permission forms ask re: carseats.

-Nicole.

equilibrium · Oct 19, 2011

I'm asking my sis for more info regarding waivers, etc.

They were not comfortable driving without but after the principal convinced them it was okay...they went with it.

I would absolutely love any help with this. Much much appreciated.

QuassEE · Oct 19, 2011

Your SIL should've refused to drive. Period. And she should've encouraged other parents to refuse. Unfortunately, this is what it takes to get the schools to listen. Our PAC President veto'd buying school boosters. The following year, HER child showed up with an expired booster and everyone refused to drive... Unfortunately, someone went and got a spare booster for him to use--I really would've preferred the message be driven home.

-N.

tam_shops · Oct 19, 2011

Just saw some District 38 (Richmond), parent waiver forms. There is specifically a section that parents have to sign that says you agree to use an appropriate and approved booster OR car seat. I'm sure teachers have to sign one also, though as a teacher I don't recall ever signing one.

Either way, that would make the DRIVER liable, having signed it and agreed to it if there were an accident.

I would not have asked and/or brought it to the principle's attention. I'd flat out have just refused to drive.

LOVE the idea of PAC having a few boosters...

tam

VanIsleMommy · Oct 19, 2011

when my son went to the boys and girls club as an 18 month old, they wanted me to sign a waiver saying it was ok to transport him in a seatbelt if a forward facing seat was not available. I refused to sign and said not a chance!!

I don't know why seat laws only apply to parents and guardians, but not bus drivers, taxi drivers, or school/child care???

QuassEE · Oct 19, 2011

VanIsleMommy said:
I don't know why seat laws only apply to parents and guardians, but not bus drivers, taxi drivers, or school/child care???

Fortunately that's no longer the case in BC.

-N.

tam_shops · Oct 19, 2011

QuassEE said:
Fortunately that's no longer the case in BC.

-N.

Really, what changed?

Do you need a car seat in a taxi or bus now? I know they don't *need* boosters in my ODS's small bus (Type A I think-not a van), drives me NUTS...They are *suggested* by ICBC, but they were only required to put in lap belts, so that's what they put in. So, those of us that would have sent a booster, can't even do that...And, even I would have consented to a booster over nothing w/ my not 40# guy! LOL

As for the *why* of the old law, the reasoning was that Taxi & Bus drivers have a Class 4+ driver's license and are trained in defensive driving, thus better drivers and skilled at avoiding accidents. Ask me how much it helped me when the tow truck dropped the truck it was towing (opposite direction) dropped the canopy off it which flew into my car, then landed on it. THEN, the truck followed, and slammed into me. Yeah, apparently the laws of Physics don't apply to Class 4 drivers either.

Though, my training did teach me to slam on my breaks vs swerve (couldn't there were cars beside me), though, I'll be honest, the fact that the accident would have been my fault if I hit the car beside me (lesser force), and my insurance would have gone up was the real motivator! LOL

tam

selinajean · Oct 19, 2011

As a parent, if I wish to drive for any school functions I must sign a waiver provided by the school district. I must state the type of vehicle that I am driving and how many lap/shoulder belts are available. I have to agree to have the appropriate amount of liability insurance, keep my vehicle in proper repair and drive according to the rules of the road. I also must agree to transport children under 9 or 4'9" in a booster seat and I have to agree to not transport a child under 13 in the front seat. It is rather extensive.

I am sure that her school must have a similar waiver. It is ultimately her decision as the driver on how to transport those children and she needs to stand up for that. it sounds like the principal needs some education on best practices but it doesn't make the school responsible for her vehicle. I have found that many children who need boosters are under the impression that they are fine without them. I have purchased spare boosters for every spare seat in my van because of this. I want to be sure that I am not put in an awkward position like that, and I don't want to be stuck using bad or expired boosters if that is what the children happen to bring along. I suggest the Apramo or Harmony as they have really low profile arm rests and fit larger/older kids nicely.
She also needs to keep in mind that she may end up transporting 9 year olds who legally can ride without a booster but will most likely still need one. She needs to be comfortable with putting her foot down and saying "my car, my rules" and explaining to the kids that the belt doesn't fit properly without the booster which can put them at risk for severe injuries. (Who knows, maybe they will go home and educate their parents.)

ketchupqueen · Oct 19, 2011

Boosters on buses are not a great idea. If the child doesn't fit the lap/shoulder belt in a bus, they should be in a harnessed seat, instead.

OP: I think the parents need to get together a plan of action for "striking" and refusing to drive if this happens again.

Keeks64 · Oct 20, 2011

selinajean said:
As a parent, if I wish to drive for any school functions I must sign a waiver provided by the school district. I must state the type of vehicle that I am driving and how many lap/shoulder belts are available. I have to agree to have the appropriate amount of liability insurance, keep my vehicle in proper repair and drive according to the rules of the road. I also must agree to transport children under 9 or 4'9" in a booster seat and I have to agree to not transport a child under 13 in the front seat. It is rather extensive.

I am sure that her school must have a similar waiver. It is ultimately her decision as the driver on how to transport those children and she needs to stand up for that. it sounds like the principal needs some education on best practices but it doesn't make the school responsible for her vehicle. I have found that many children who need boosters are under the impression that they are fine without them. I have purchased spare boosters for every spare seat in my van because of this. I want to be sure that I am not put in an awkward position like that, and I don't want to be stuck using bad or expired boosters if that is what the children happen to bring along. I suggest the Apramo or Harmony as they have really low profile arm rests and fit larger/older kids nicely.
She also needs to keep in mind that she may end up transporting 9 year olds who legally can ride without a booster but will most likely still need one. She needs to be comfortable with putting her foot down and saying "my car, my rules" and explaining to the kids that the belt doesn't fit properly without the booster which can put them at risk for severe injuries. (Who knows, maybe they will go home and educate their parents.)

When I was in school on the Island , so like 12 years ago now , my mom had to sign the same wavier when she drove on feild trips - MINUS the booster part ....I would assume that things are still the same except now include the booster clause

Actually come to think of it , it must have that clause added because my sister just went and got a literider for my nephew on a school trip in which he is going with a friends mom....and as much as I adore my sister she isnt all that into carseat safety so unless it stated so , she wouldnt comply & provide a booster - she moved my 9 year old niece the day she turned 9 , which kudo's I guess but she doesnt 5 step in every vehicle

and they let her ride in my dads truck with just a centre lapbelt in the front

Adventuredad · Oct 20, 2011

Principal seems clueless which is not surprising. Most people know next to nothing about car seat safety and don't really care.

IMHO your SIL should have approached the whole thing differently. Driving your own child is a great responsibility. Driving other children is even more responsibility. IMHO she should have asked about car seats before the excursion. Found out relevant ages of the children and what was needed.

Would parents bring their own? Would school supply boosters?

Booster cushions would have been fine. That would have been easy to bring.

The driver is always responsible no matter what happens. My personal approach is that children always have to use a car seat in my car. If not they can't come along. But I also always bring along plenty of extra seats in case another parent forget or don't care.

carseatcoach · Oct 20, 2011

I agree. The principal was wrong, but ultimately the driver is responsible and she should have refused to drive without boosters. I always keep at least one extra backless booster in my trunk for when I unexpectedly need to give another kid a ride home.

Alison's Mom · Oct 20, 2011

I haven't seen the waiver form for driving other kids at our school, but a recent notice for cross country (grades 3-7) did ask parents of grade 3 students to bring a booster for their child. Technically, though, there would be grade 4 children who are not yet 9yrs old.

Good idea to have a cheap backless on hand for these situations. I'm only driving my own child for the field trip today, but if they wanted me to take an extra kid, I wouldn't be able to unless the child is 9 or older.

kam1011 · Oct 21, 2011

As a teacher, and coming from a long family line of teachers and principals, the one word I hear over and over is *safety.* The real issue here is that the principal did not act in the interest of safety of her/his students. As an authority figure, he needs to be more sensitive to the "power" (so to speak) that he carries when he speaks to the parents in the school. I agree that a letter should be written and CC'd to higher school officials with the approach that in the future, the principal should not make such requests that could compromise the safety of his students. Not all parents will be willing to stand up for what is right for those kids in the future! (Maybe this would also be a good time to throw in the suggestion of a few school owned boosters as backups, too?)

equilibrium · Oct 21, 2011

Thank you Kam1011 for your input. I really appreciate it. I am hoping to write to the pac as well but really not sure how I should write a letter to the school board (ie/what to include).

kam1011 · Oct 21, 2011

Remember that flattery always gets your farther

I would start out by explaining the incident that occurred and stating the law simply. Mention that the principal is a man(woman?) who is respected in the school community and that some parents are going to listen to what he says, even if he is telling people to break a law. You would like to make sure that this does not confuse other parents in the future. I would also throw in that I would be upset as a parent of one of the students transported unsafely and illegally. (although, I wasn't really clear on if those parents were supposed to send in boosters but didn't? If that's the case, then revise.) At the end mention that you would like a reply. HTH

daisyqduck · Oct 22, 2011

I am in Ontario but often drive on field trips with my DD's class. The children/the families must bring the appropriate car seat. The school is not allowed to supply car seats due to liability issues nor is the driver of the car to supply a car seat to a child that is not their own, again liability issues. IMO any school that allows parents driving should have a policy requiring children that should be in car seats to bring them or they will not be allowed on the trip period. The principal should not have asked anyone to break the law.

Elementary School Principal told my sis not to worry about seats (during school event)

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