Do you top tether beyond the LATCH weight limit?

luckyclov

New member
Discussion in another thread has me genuinely curious. I was unaware that encouraging TT use beyond LATCH weight limits is a reportable act, which can lead to re-education. Persistence can lead to certification revocation.

This is news to me, since, as of last week, in my own tech course (revised curriculum), we were taught to encourage TT use beyond limits, as benefit outweighs potential risk(s) of non-use. As with all decisions, however, the final "say" rests on the parent/caregiver.

It has always been my understanding - through my own research, through seat checks over the years, through this forum, and, most recently, through my own CPST course last week - that top tethering is encouraged (though, ultimately the decision of the parent/caregiver) for forward-facing installations, even beyond the vehicle's stated LATCH weight limit. Logic being that if the TT were to fail, it would likely do so after having already provided some benefit in reducing head excursion. Less head excursion = less injury. And that we've not had any data suggestive of TTs failing over the years, while, assumptively, our TT use has increased over the years.

I am a firm believer in the benefit of top tethering. I drive a Toyota, which defers to the child seat manufacturer, but I'm pretty confident I'd still continue TT use beyond the stated LATCH weight limit, if my vehicle had one (parental decisions and all that).
 
ADS

murphydog77

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Oh seriously? Yeah, there are so many reported instances of tethers failing. </sarcasm> Gimme a break! If someone reported me for telling a parent (or the new techs in my classes) that there are no reported instances of top tethers failing over 40 lbs. (if not listed or listed at 40 lbs.), there'd be a big fight and I'm not the violent type.

Sure, it's always the parent's choice about going beyond tether limits and they should be informed, but it's ridiculous and IMO unethical to tell them to disconnect a safety feature just because of an artificially low, arbitrary number.
 

bubbaray

New member
Well, not that it helps with the *legal* part of it, but there is a whole country to the north that has been TTg for a couple of decades now without reference to the LATCH limit. FFg harnessed seats must be TTd to the limits of the harness here. I had no clue that in the US you couldn't use a TT once you switched from LATCH to belt install. Huh.
 

bnsnyde

New member
I always top tether and encourage it.

Did I read that it's only 9% safer to top tether? I'll take what I can get, but I read the middle is safer by 30%. And most people I know are very adamant about top tethering but downright flippant about middle vs. outboard.

Shouldn't that be reversed?

I know you can't always have it all with all vehicles, but I top tether IN the middle ideally.
 

acoro

New member
Wow we all are in serious trouble up here!! My 60ish lbs DS1 is top tethered in his GN (installed with seatbelt of course) because it's safer & you know the law! Pfft
 

April

Well-known member
There was a whole big debate about this a few months ago.if any of you are on the CPSP List, most of it happened on there, and I think there was even a thread about it here (in the Tech forum IIRC). And I'm canadian too so top tethers always here.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

lovemybabies924

New member
personally i TT beyond honda's limit...but right now its not an issue because DD1 just moved full time to a booster, and DS2 is only 35#s but i will keep it TT until he outgrows it. I do LBP now too that hes 35lbs...i didnt wanna keep checking his weight to see if hes closing in on 40 lol

and if someone askes me about TT past weight i will tell them to research it and decide.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I tell parents to refer to their manuals and follow the instructions.

Conveniently, I don't own a LATCH manual. I'm hesitant to buy one because then I would be able to tell parents what the TT limits of their cars are. As it is, most manuals don't state it and unless you have the LATCH manual you have no way of knowing what the limit is. So... usually what you have is a car manual that doesn't say one way or another, and a car seat manual that says to use the TT, and heck, as far as I know that means you should use the TT. :rolleyes:

I know perfectly well that Honda has a 40 lb limit, but... you know... I could be wrong, or have it confused with Toyota, and since I can't look it up to double check, I leave it on the parent to find out what their limits are.

I do happen to have a FF Radian installed in my Civic and a 50 lb child who rides in it and, yes, I use the TT. However, when retrofitting that child's mom's car (also a Honda, but older) with a TT to use for her Frontier, I used an EZ-On tether anchor instead of a Honda tether anchor precisely for this reason. Given a choice, I will tether to a higher weight anchor. But I'll tether to any anchor point before I'll tether to no anchor point.
 

Ninetales

New member
It hasn't come up yet for me but I would tell any parent to read the manual. If I had a LATCH manual handy I'd inform them and leave it to them.

My daughter is RF but when she turns I will tether past the limit and not think twice.
 

Pixels

New member
Posted on behalf of the National Child Passenger Safety Board:

At the January National Child Passenger Safety Board meeting, the board
discussed the use of tethering child restraints for children greater
than 40 pounds. According to both vehicle and child restraint
manufacturers there is no gray area related to this. The majority of
vehicle manufacturers clearly state the limits of the hardware for the
factory installed tether and lower anchors. The current thinking is
that when no clear weight limit exists, 40 pounds is considered the
weight for that vehicle. Both the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration (NHTSA) and Safe Kids Worldwide continue to provide
guidance that requires certified technicians to follow manufacturer
instructions. And this guidance is found throughout the National
Curriculum.

There is no alternative approach for technicians to discuss. This is
not a best practice issue. There is not a lack of evidence to support
the board's position. Vehicle and child restraint manufacturers
conduct rigorous testing to meet or exceed NHTSA standards and their
organization's product safety standards. These tests are conducted
by engineers using proven scientific methods. Failure to follow vehicle
and child restraint manufacturer guidelines as well as to adhere to the
certification training opens technicians, instructors and their
organizations to increased liability risk.

NHTSA has issued a NPRM regarding FMVSS 213 and is proposing plans to
standardize labeling regarding LATCH weights. Until such time that the
issue is resolved or changes, the Board's recommendation continues
to be that technicians and instructors must follow current
manufacturer's instructions.

Sincerely

Tess Benham

Secretariat

National Child Passenger Safety Board
From the CPSP List, Feb 12, 2011. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/CPSPList/message/13085
 

gsdguenter

Well-known member
Wow. That's a really strong statement. So, is there evidence bad things can/do happen when TT limits are ignored? If so, what could be the detriment? I'm not being snarky, I just don't get it.

Also, in Canada you have to TT all the time ff, right? If this is the case, do they TT 65 lbs. kids in TT that have weight limits of 40lbs.?

This truly confuses me :confused:
 

Brianna

New member
I can't imagine somebody other than a CPST or a member of this site even knowing what a LATCH manual is. Without ever visiting this site, and after reading my car and car seat manual, it is my understanding to always top tether if possible, and nothing in either of my manuals tells me to stop at 40 pounds. If it's such a safety issue, why is this information nearly impossible for the average parent to find?
 

acoro

New member
This thread has been rolling around my end and I can't stop thinking about it. Being in Canada we just always top tether FF harnessed seat without question. I started looking at some government sites this morning and one thing that sticks out to me is that in Canadian documentation the lower anchors are referred to as UAS but the top tether is referred to separately versus the LATCH nomenclature which refers to lower/top collectively as a system. I wonder if this is purposely down so the weight limit issues are not applied to top tether :confused:
 

Brianna

New member
Found in the Chevy Malibu manual
Do not secure a child seat in a position without a top
tether anchor if a national or local law requires that the
top tether be anchored, or if the instructions that
come with the child restraint say that the top strap
must be anchored.

To me, this means that when the Frontier requires to be tethered at a certain weight, I must use the top tether per Chevy. Does this supersede the statement to not tether above 40 pounds per the National Child Passenger Safety Board?
 

luckyclov

New member
Pixels, thank you for posting the source. I did not have any luck when attempting to search for it.

What that advisory says and what's still taught and practiced, however, doesn't exactly mesh. As I said, this is what I was taught just last week in my course...by instructors, who, IMO, weren't as ill-informed and clueless as I had originally anticipated they would be. And I've yet to come across any data which suggests incidence of TA failure, either in the US or Canada.

I think we need to work harder on getting those vehicle manufacturers with lower limits to revise their limits, either by increasing the limit, seperating TA limit from LA limit, or deferring to the child seat manufacturer (another reason I'm glad I chose a Toyota). Of course, that's easier said then done, but I do think it's an area that needs revising.

My *personal* stance has not changed. I am a firm believer in top tethering forward-facing installations. I've seen first-hand the benefit it can provide, even when used beyond stated limits. My children will NOT be untethered. Period. I feel THAT strongly about it.

I will continue to inform/educate parents/caregivers as I have in the past. I have never, and will never, make a decision for them or withhold information from them. That's never best practice.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Yes, I do, and further when I explain risks and benefits I've never had a parent choose not to. As Darren says, they can't have it both ways. The LATCH Manual itself practically advises tethering no matter what; many manufacturers don't state the limit anywhere else.

Honda, for example, doesn't state a limit in the manuals and advises tethering whenever one is available. You wouldn't know there was a limit unless you have access to a LATCH Manual. If you call Honda you may get an answer of 40-but you may not (I've known at least four people to call and get varied responses.)

Real life data in the US and Canada over more than ten years of HWH tethered seats has not turned up one instance of TA failure, as far as I know.
 

Mommy0608

New member
Found in the Chevy Malibu manual


To me, this means that when the Frontier requires to be tethered at a certain weight, I must use the top tether per Chevy. Does this supersede the statement to not tether above 40 pounds per the National Child Passenger Safety Board?

:yeahthatmad:

This whole thing is rather frustrating. There are seats on the market that require top tether use beyond a certain weight. Why would car seat manufacturers list these requirements if vehicles don't allow it?

I guess you could say that SK did that with their Super LATCH too. However, I view that a little differently than the top tether issue.

To answer the original question, my kids are no where near the upper limit in my van, but approaching the limit in DH's Civic. I will make the parental decision to continue to tether my FF seats as long as the kids are harnessed, even beyond stated limits. As a CPST, I don't tell parents to do that. I tell them both sides of the story and let them decide.
 

Pixels

New member
Found in the Chevy Malibu manual


To me, this means that when the Frontier requires to be tethered at a certain weight, I must use the top tether per Chevy. Does this supersede the statement to not tether above 40 pounds per the National Child Passenger Safety Board?

If the tether limit is 40 pounds and the Frontier85 requires a tether over 65, the seat and vehicle are incompatible over 65 pounds.

Basically, when the weight limit is met/exceeded, it's like the anchor doesn't exist. If the vehicle didn't have an anchor at all, you would not hesitate to say that they are incompatible.
 

Pixels

New member
:yeahthatmad:

This whole thing is rather frustrating. There are seats on the market that require top tether use beyond a certain weight. Why would car seat manufacturers list these requirements if vehicles don't allow it?

Because they can. And there ARE vehicles that allow it. Just not all of them.

Asking that question is somewhat like asking why a seat with ten inch bottom slots would list five pounds as the weight minimum. Because there's nothing stopping them, and because there are circumstances where it's not that horrible of an idea.

If a restraint requires the top tether, that's even more of a reason not to exceed the stated limit. Mush of the argument to ignore the limits says "what's the nig deal if it does fail?" Well, the big deal is now you have a restraint that requires the tether but is untethered.
 

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Forum statistics

Threads
219,656
Messages
2,196,897
Members
13,530
Latest member
onehitko860

You must read your carseat and vehicle owner’s manual and understand any relevant state laws. These are the rules you must follow to restrain your children safely. All opinions at Car-Seat.Org are those of the individual author for informational purposes only, and do not necessarily reflect any policy or position of Carseat Media LLC. Car-Seat.Org makes no representations as to accuracy, completeness, currentness, suitability, or validity of any information on this site and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. If you are unsure about information provided to you, please visit a local certified technician. Before posting or using our website you must read and agree to our TERMS.

Graco is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Britax is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org! Nuna Baby is a Proud Sponsor of Car-Seat.Org!

Please  Support Car-Seat.Org  with your purchases of infant, convertible, combination and boosters seats from our premier sponsors above.
Shop travel systems, strollers and baby gear from Britax, Chicco, Clek, Combi, Evenflo, First Years, Graco, Maxi-Cosi, Nuna, Safety 1st, Diono & more! ©2001-2022 Carseat Media LLC

Top