Crash Test Video

SafeDad · Sep 26, 2011

Many of you have seen a million of 'em. Normally, they don't let you take videos when you see them in person, but Dorel was kind enough to allow us some photos and videos on our tour today. It's a very impressive facility and even more impressive manufacturing plant employing a very large number of great people!

Anyway, here it is in regular motion. Don't blink!

(That's Kecia saying, "OW.")

More from our tour and the rest of ABC Kids Expo coming soon to the forum, blog and Facebook!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Jhj4IJif8"]Dorel Side Impact Test - YouTube[/ame]

jourdysmom · Sep 26, 2011

Fared quite well, Not much head movement... Thanks!

crunchierthanthou · Sep 26, 2011

Thanks, Darren. Ow is right.

Did you ask about the possibility of a side impact test that factors in forward movement? I mean, it looks great if the car is sitting still when hit. That's often not the case in a side impact.

Along those lines, are we any closer to a side impact test standard? What are the odds of it being very much like the one you just showed? Not that there isn't any value to it, but it leaves out what I see as a critical component.

LISmama810 · Sep 26, 2011

LOL, love the "ow"!

We all know I have issues with Dorel...but I seriously love those air cushions, and every time I see footage of them, I love them more and more. I don't KNOW that they're better than EPS/EPP, but man, it sure seems like they are.

ketchupqueen · Sep 26, 2011

I don't know if they're better, they are definitely, to me, at least "as good." But I'm not saying the foam isn't great.

You may recall the picture of the EPP (I think- did they use EPS?) foam on Bridget's car seat- with the little dented semi-oval-ish-shape in it, where her head smashed into it while the car was going darned close to 70 mph when we hit that concrete barrier and her seat was just inches from the impact... I'm not gonna rag on the EPP/EPS. It's proven, tested, tried-and-true technology, and it saved my kid's brains.

mimieliza · Sep 26, 2011

LISmama810 said:
LOL, love the "ow"!

We all know I have issues with Dorel...but I seriously love those air cushions, and every time I see footage of them, I love them more and more. I don't KNOW that they're better than EPS/EPP, but man, it sure seems like they are.

That's why my DD still rides in a CA, FFing. Despite all the RFing issues, it is an awesome FFing seat - which is when you need the extra SIP anyway. And with that harness height, it is going to last us a loooooooong time. We only have the 50 lb. version, but it'll take her years to outgrow it by either height or weight at this point.

LISmama810 · Sep 26, 2011

Oh, I'm not ragging on foam at all. The Air Protect just FEELS so much better. (And I mean that as a gut feeling, not, like, a squishy feeling.) If I'm in a crash I'd rather have a big air pillow coming at me than a block of foam. But I'd rather have the foam than a chunk of glass. And I do realize this is all unproven, so I'm not making any claims. (Well, except for the chunk of glass. That would definitely hurt.)

mimieliza · Sep 26, 2011

No, I'm a fan of foam, too. DD rides in a Radian XTSL FFing in our other car.

ketchupqueen · Sep 27, 2011

Hmmm, having taken one apart, I guess my gut feeling leans toward the foam, though I do believe that the air cushions are very safe.

I just feel that, using the same amount of space, you could have more potential energy management with the foam, I guess. That's not USUALLY the trade-off, of course! Just, you know, gutsiness.

Brigala · Sep 27, 2011

LISmama810 said:
Oh, I'm not ragging on foam at all. The Air Protect just FEELS so much better. (And I mean that as a gut feeling, not, like, a squishy feeling.)

This is what ultimately swayed our near-tie decision between the Onboard Air and the Chicco Keyfit. Both my husband and I felt more comfortable with the "air bags" than with the foam, even though we still felt quite comfortable with the foam.

I'm also not going to knock foam. I don't feel my baby is less safe in the Radian XTSL compared to the Complete Air. I am sure both technologies are quite safe.

I am still pretty ticked about the CA recline issues (I never would have bought that one if I knew they expected me to recline it to 53°), but at least they're addressing it for future releases. But that's a separate issue from the air vs. foam. I get that the foam gives you more protection per cubic inch, and that's what makes foam great for a trimmer seat such as a Radian. But my CA is in the Suburban in the quad seating where space isn't an issue; and I don't mind a bit that the air protect takes up extra space. Even if both of them protect a kid's brains equally well, it seems like the air protect would be more comfortable to be knocked against. Especially, perhaps, in lower impact events where your concern has more to do with bruising on the face than brains knocked against the skull.

lourdes · Sep 27, 2011

In my opinion the CA needs foam thru out the seat, the only thing that will absorb energy is in the head but I think they need something for the head too

glockchick · Sep 27, 2011

The only thing I don't like about the air protect is that it's great on the sides, but there is nothing but hard plastic behind the kid's head. I'm worried about a frontal collision and the child's head coming straight back and hitting that.

That and the continuous harness are what made me choose the RN over the CA.

Jennifer mom to my 7 · Sep 27, 2011

I am pretty sure there is eps foam behind the head in the complete air. I thought someone made a post about it, and hadn't KQ posted pics of one taken apart when hers was found defective and she got a new one?

And in the first look blog post:

http://carseatblog.com/3332/safety-1st-complete-air-with-air-protect-first-look-review/

christineka · Sep 27, 2011

Yes, there is eps foam behind the air cushions, but that's it on the whole seat.

Pixels · Sep 27, 2011

ketchupqueen said:
I don't know if they're better, they are definitely, to me, at least "as good." But I'm not saying the foam isn't great.

You may recall the picture of the EPP (I think- did they use EPS?) foam on Bridget's car seat- with the little dented semi-oval-ish-shape in it, where her head smashed into it while the car was going darned close to 70 mph when we hit that concrete barrier and her seat was just inches from the impact... I'm not gonna rag on the EPP/EPS. It's proven, tested, tried-and-true technology, and it saved my kid's brains.

That seat had EPS. EPS is usually white, and it's a one-off. It is not resilient, which means it doesn't bounce back after it is deformed. EPP is usually black, and is highly resistant, meaning after you squish it, it will bounce back and look like it did before the impact.

Because of the resiliency, I'm a fan of EPP over EPS. If there are multiple impacts, the EPP foam has a chance of helping in the subsequent impacts. Also, it's much more difficult to break or ruin. The same should apply to the Air Protect. That said, I own and use seats with EPS foam, largely because it is much more common. Price, weight and height limits, and overall size of seat are much more important factors to me.

Pixels · Sep 27, 2011

lourdes said:
In my opinion the CA needs foam thru out the seat, the only thing that will absorb energy is in the head but I think they need something for the head too

There has not been any evidence that foam in the body area does anything to protect the child. In the head area, yes. Under the bum, yes (helps with spinal compression). Along the child's sides or behind their back, no.

Now we are beginning to see seats with foam in the areas where the seatbelt or harness contact to help with those energies. Very cool.

lourdes · Sep 27, 2011

Sorry but what is bum?? English is not my first language

Jessica61624 · Sep 27, 2011

lourdes said:
Sorry but what is bum?? English is not my first language

Under the butt area.

lourdes · Sep 27, 2011

Thanks

SafeDad · Sep 27, 2011

crunchierthanthou said:
Thanks, Darren. Ow is right.

Did you ask about the possibility of a side impact test that factors in forward movement? I mean, it looks great if the car is sitting still when hit. That's often not the case in a side impact.

Along those lines, are we any closer to a side impact test standard? What are the odds of it being very much like the one you just showed? Not that there isn't any value to it, but it leaves out what I see as a critical component.

more to come on this. I did ask about oblique side impacts. They can and do perform them, but not as part of their internal standard. On the other hand, they are prepared for an eventual federal standard that may include one or more angles.

This could make all the difference between internal and external cushions, for example.
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