On driveway only -- HBB for 2-year-old?

pastrygirl · Sep 12, 2011

I have a very long driveway and during inclement weather, I have to drive to the end to pick up my 5-year-old from the bus. Actually, I do it all the time now because we have a coyote that likes to hang out in my driveway between 3 and 5pm.

My senior citizen babysitter asked about picking him up from the bus in case of emergency. She can't walk that distance, with the hills, etc. I thought the answer was easy -- I keep a Vivo in my husband's pickup, which she has access to anytime. Then she asked what if she also has my 2-year-old. Eeep!

It will likely NEVER happen, but I should have a plan just in case. Would you be comfortable having the 2-year-old ride in the Vivo (he meets the minimums), and getting a backless for my 5-year-old? Right now, I can turn the car around without leaving the driveway. But once there's snow on the ground, she'll have to leave the driveway to turn around. Does that change your answer?

Brigala · Sep 12, 2011

Having to leave the driveway DOES change my answer. I was about to say that if you practice with your 2 year old up and down the driveway and you think the child can stay seated in a HBB for the driveway, it would be OK (we're talking 5-10 mph or so, I presume, and zero other traffic, and I'm also assuming there aren't any steep embankments to slide down in icy conditions or something).

The second you start talking about leaving the driveway, even for a moment, my answer changes. I do not feel a two year old is properly protected in a booster from the possibility of getting T-boned at a high speed by an irresponsible driver. The minute you introduce public roads and not just "Me and my next door neighbor on a driveway" you also introduce all the hazards of other crazy drivers who do crazy things. Especially in icy conditions.

Is there any way to plow out a good turn-around so you don't have to pull out onto the street to get back home??

nmb · Sep 12, 2011

pastrygirl said:
My senior citizen babysitter asked about picking him up from the bus in case of emergency. She can't walk that distance, with the hills, etc. I thought the answer was easy -- I keep a Vivo in my husband's pickup, which she has access to anytime. Then she asked what if she also has my 2-year-old. Eeep!

In an emergency -- does that mean if you can't pick them up?
Is that something that is highly unlikely to happen? Or probably will / does happen occasionally?
Or does she have another vehicle that she usually uses with proper seats?

Emergency usually implies unplanned / unexpected. Having the truck as back up "just in case" is not bad. But if you expect that she will need to use it occasionally, I'd get a Scenera or Maestro to put in there for the 2 yr old. Only because adding in icy, snowy roads makes an accident more likely even for good drivers.

jourdysmom · Sep 12, 2011

Brigala said:
Having to leave the driveway DOES change my answer. I was about to say that if you practice with your 2 year old up and down the driveway and you think the child can stay seated in a HBB for the driveway, it would be OK (we're talking 5-10 mph or so, I presume, and zero other traffic, and I'm also assuming there aren't any steep embankments to slide down in icy conditions or something).

The second you start talking about leaving the driveway, even for a moment, my answer changes. I do not feel a two year old is properly protected in a booster from the possibility of getting T-boned at a high speed by an irresponsible driver. The minute you introduce public roads and not just "Me and my next door neighbor on a driveway" you also introduce all the hazards of other crazy drivers who do crazy things. Especially in icy conditions.

Is there any way to plow out a good turn-around so you don't have to pull out onto the street to get back home??

:yeahthat:

Brianna · Sep 12, 2011

Is backing all the way up the driveway an option? I'd be worried especially with snow on the ground that a driver on the road would hit an ice patch and lose control of their vehicle.

Pixels · Sep 12, 2011

I've been on OP's driveway. No reasonable way to back all the way up it, especially in snowy/icy conditions. It's steep in spots, twisty and turny, and long.

Cristina, since you've said you often do a semi-controlled slide down the driveway, I'd say no, unless maybe:
the seatbelt can be locked (okay by both vehicle and seat manufacturers)
the child leaves the seatbelt buckle alone
the child is pretty well contained by the locked belt, meaning can't really move out of position at all

I know it wouldn't work at all with my 3yo right now, because she sees big red button and pushes it. I'm thankful my car has LATCH just because she can't undo that easily.

RSTV? Or do you have a spare harness you can leave installed in the truck? Even if it's FFing with the harness set for T, I'd rather that than a booster.

Lea_Ontario · Sep 12, 2011

Pixels said:
...It's steep in spots, twisty and turny, and long...
...you've said you often do a semi-controlled slide down the driveway...

With this information - I'm going to vote "ABSOLUTELY NOT"

creideamh · Sep 12, 2011

Nonononono. I'm neurotic and am afraid of even being in my short, boring driveway without best-possible-way restrained. ESPECIALLY with winters/ice and a long driveway, nope no no.

StPaulMom · Sep 12, 2011

Since the vehicle your neighbor would be driving is yours anyway, I'd just keep a harnessed seat installed there along with the booster. With the length of the driveway, having to turn around in the road, the icy conditions, and the fact that your neighbor is elderly (no offense to elderly drivers, but reflexes and response times are just not as fast) mean that a booster for your 2 year old is a NO WAY. HTH!

LISmama810 · Sep 12, 2011

If it were a long, flat driveway on level terrain, I'd say MAYBE. Reading that it's twisty and steep, plus with inclement weather: No.

Kat_Momof3 · Sep 12, 2011

okay... regardless of leaving the driveway... my first response would be NO... because I just can't picture ANY 2yr old able to sit still during even that short ride in a booster seat.

I'd be okay with forward facing even if pulling out of the driveway because she's 2... because I know that is usually a faster and easier install (for the babysitter)

I'd likely keep an evenflo maestro in there... and backless booster(s) for any other kids with her (obviously only those who can use them with good belt fit)... and then I'd likely lock the belts on younger booster riders if possible. (like, up until age 7)

or... once it is FINALLY released... the kiddy world seat that has the shield... because that still works like a booster and is pretty foolproof.

I just keep thinking "what if"... in terms of maturity of the kid, inclement weather causing an issue with road conditions leading to an accident of some kind, and then winter bringing snow, ice... and I start getting super twitchy.

safeinthecar · Sep 12, 2011

I'd be more comfortable with leaving the 2yo at home alone in a childproof and locked room that this emergency scenario. And that's saying something because I'm totally against locking a kid in a room.

Brigala · Sep 12, 2011

LISmama810 said:
If it were a long, flat driveway on level terrain, I'd say MAYBE. Reading that it's twisty and steep, plus with inclement weather: No.

:yeahthatsad:

I was basing my previous statement on the assumption that the driveway itself was not complicated. Mine is flat and straight. A driveway similar to mine, but even longer, I would have no issue with at least trying a 2 year old out in a booster on it to see if she'd stay put. Steep and twisty? No.

That would be a tough one to weigh between "leave the baby at home alone" and "strap the kid into a booster" because neither option would be a good one.

Is it possible to equip the 7 year old with one of those hella-loud emergency sirens (to scare off coyotes), a flashlight, and a cell phone and let the child hike home alone in an emergency?

SeattleRain · Sep 13, 2011

Brigala said:
:yeahthatsad:
Is it possible to equip the 7 year old with one of those hella-loud emergency sirens (to scare off coyotes), a flashlight, and a cell phone and let the child hike home alone in an emergency?

That seems really scary though, not just for the parent, but for the kid. I'd be really freaked out if I was 7 and had coyotes around my house.

Snow and ice are pretty much asking for an accident if you're not extremely careful, and even then it can be unavoidable if you hit a patch under snow that is slippery or if the temperature fluctuations make some spots slicker than others. With that knowledge I'd be ESPECIALLY careful about how my kid rides, not LESS careful. If we're talking about an unlikely scenario, but one that could potentially happen, I'd plan for a seat to be available to the sitter. If we're talking about a scenario that is a real, true, unplanned emergency like the house is on fire, or someone is injured, or you're fleeing in some kind of evacuation then that's another thing.

mkmama · Sep 13, 2011

Brigala said:
Is it possible to equip the 7 year old with one of those hella-loud emergency sirens (to scare off coyotes), a flashlight, and a cell phone and let the child hike home alone in an emergency?

No way at ALL would I be letting my children anywhere outside with coyotes around...especially one hanging around during the day. Here (we're in rural place) the coyotes are getting so bad that we've had them get into nasty fights with farm dogs with the farmer not 5 yards away in broad daylight!

We have a driveway that sounds similar to the OP's...you literally do a controlled slide down one hill when there is any amount of ice, and hope and pray you can get up enough speed at the bottom to make it up the other side, and the driveway itself is at least a quarter mile long. I absolutely would not consider letting my 2 year old ride in a HBB on our driveway in winter -- in fact, I'm more strict in the winter because of the ice (I'm much more lenient in the summer), since you never know when you're going to start sliding.

Pixels · Sep 13, 2011

Brigala said:
:yeahthatsad:

Is it possible to equip the 7 year old with one of those hella-loud emergency sirens (to scare off coyotes), a flashlight, and a cell phone and let the child hike home alone in an emergency?

The child is 5y3mo.

bobandjess99 · Sep 13, 2011

dude. Where do y'all alive where *fighting off coyotes* is a potential daily event?

*huddles in the fetal position in her nice, urban, city dwelling.*

Brigala · Sep 13, 2011

The coyotes around here are pretty skittish, but they do get pretty bold in some places. Especially if there's been interbreeding with domestic dogs. And yeah, I didn't realize the child was 5, not 7.

When I was 7, I walked home through the woods about a mile up a gravel road from the bus stop every day by myself. Actually, I did it when I was 5, too, but in hindsight that probably wasn't a very good idea and I wouldn't recommend it. At 7, it might be OK depending on the circumstances. And we're talking an emergency here.

But yeah, sounds like the best bet is to make sure there's a proper car seat available for the 2 year old.

mkmama · Sep 13, 2011

For the most part they're skittish around here too...but over the past 3-5 years, they've gotten much more bold. They *typically* will still run off at least a little distance when confronted with an adult, but not always (as is the case with the farm dog incidents we've had)...but I absolutely would not trust them to be skittish of a 5 year old.

My husband used to walk up this very same lane when he was in school...it was the plan for our kids too, but unless the coyote population is brought under control again in the next few years, I will probably not be allowing it because I don't want to have to worry about my child encountering one from the bus stop to home, a time frame in which he would have no way to contact help.

pastrygirl · Sep 13, 2011

My babysitter doesn't drive our truck. She has a Rav4. But the truck is unlocked and she can grab the booster whenever she needs it.

My 2yo doesn't meet the minimums for the RSTV that we have.

The only time this situation could possibly happen is 1) if she's home with the 2yo and I'm out, AND 2) I get into an accident or something very serious that keeps me from being able to get home at 3:30.

I've settled it, though. If no one is there to pick up the child from the school bus, he goes back to school and gets put into the after school program. They try to reach the parents (or anyone else on the list) all the while. So THAT is my worst case scenario, and makes me feel MUCH better. Phew.

My heart is racing already thinking about how horrible and scary our driveway gets in the winter. My babysitter sometimes can't make it up (she has 2WD), which is why I've had to search for babysitters with AWD. Not fun. And yeah, the controlled slide is scary, since there are usually rock-solid snow banks at the end if you aren't able to follow the curve of the driveway.

I really want to move.

ETA: Before/after winter weather, I can just plan to install a RF convertible in her car every time I leaver her here with the 2yo. That might make sense. It would be easiest to do a FF Coccoro, though (he's outgrown it RF).

On driveway only -- HBB for 2-year-old?

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