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  1. #1
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    Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    I am not pointing my finger at anyone specifically, and I am not saying it is all the commenters, either. But for some reason, when a thread regarding some family's tragedy goes on and on about what seat it was and which belt path was used, and which slots should have been used, whose fault it was, would the baby have lived if it were in the car, etc.- it just seems wrong to me. Wrong because some accidents are just not survivable- and wrong because again, human nature makes us want to reassure ourselves (falsely) that somehow we are doing all we can to be spared such a tragedy ourselves. Those photos are awful- truly nightmare inspiring, at least in my mind, and my instincts tell me to say a prayer for the family and leave it at that. Obviously, I know this is a car safety related board, and we are all here to do the best we can in regards to our families' safety on the roads and to learn what we can-but this accident I am referring to -looks like she would have needed a tank to protect any occupants in that instant- so all your car seat ponderings are a moot isssue.

    My vent for the day.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    I don't think any condemnation is being done on the other thread, excepting the guy who plowed into her and pushed her into the path of the oncoming semi. In fact, it's been said it doesn't appear the accident is survivable.

    Also, I think the tone is a sense of amazement that the CRS is in pretty good condition considering how bad the car is.

    I don't see any judgement going on in that thread.

  4. #3
    CPS Advocate lovinwaves's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    I think some threads like that may bother some posters more than others, and I would just say to avoid them. This is a discussion Forum, so there for we are discussing this particular accident which had a child restraint involved.

    I think all of the posters here are observing the pictures and finding out how the child restraint was installed, and how it held up in such an incredible destructing accident.

    I think we all have the family in our thoughts, but sometimes analyzing tragedies may help prevent more in the future.

    Unless ADMIN specifically says we cannot discuss others tragedies or accidents I am sure it will continue on this Forum. I think we all only want good to come out of that thread.

    Many posters have already mentioned things that I hadn't noticed at first like, the beltpath, type of car, etc.... That photo is a perfect example of the importance of a child restraint. We can speculate if the child would have survived or perished, but the one thing we DO know is that the child restraint stayed in tact, and that we can learn from and educate other parents...
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  5. #4
    CPS Technician Loves2sing's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovinwaves View Post
    I think some threads like that may bother some posters more than others, and I would just say to avoid them. This is a discussion Forum, so there for we are discussing this particular accident which had a child restraint involved.

    I think all of the posters here are observing the pictures and finding out how the child restraint was installed, and how it held up in such an incredible destructing accident.

    I think we all have the family in our thoughts, but sometimes analyzing tragedies may help prevent more in the future.

    Unless ADMIN specifically says we cannot discuss others tragedies or accidents I am sure it will continue on this Forum. I think we all only want good to come out of that thread.

    Many posters have already mentioned things that I hadn't noticed at first like, the beltpath, type of car, etc.... That photo is a perfect example of the importance of a child restraint. We can speculate if the child would have survived or perished, but the one thing we DO know is that the child restraint stayed in tact, and that we can learn from and educate other parents...
    Very well said Melissa!
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  6. #5
    CPS Fanatic mominabigtruck's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    I was offended because the first thing people started talking about was how it was the semi driver's fault even though there was nothing there to point to that fact, all it was was a picture and because there was a truck in it of course it was assumed that it was their fault. I said what I thought and I stopped posting because I'm not going to get upset about people posting ignorant statements just because they have a preconceived bias.
    If it seems like I'm not making sense, it's probably just my phone

  7. #6
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Mom, I think most people don't feel that way

  8. #7
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
    I don't think any condemnation is being done on the other thread, excepting the guy who plowed into her and pushed her into the path of the oncoming semi. In fact, it's been said it doesn't appear the accident is survivable.

    Also, I think the tone is a sense of amazement that the CRS is in pretty good condition considering how bad the car is.

    I don't see any judgement going on in that thread.
    I never said there was judgement or condemnation- just armchair quarterbacking.

    Quote Originally Posted by lovinwaves View Post
    I think some threads like that may bother some posters more than others, and I would just say to avoid them. This is a discussion Forum, so there for we are discussing this particular accident which had a child restraint involved.

    I think all of the posters here are observing the pictures and finding out how the child restraint was installed, and how it held up in such an incredible destructing accident.

    I think we all have the family in our thoughts, but sometimes analyzing tragedies may help prevent more in the future.

    Unless ADMIN specifically says we cannot discuss others tragedies or accidents I am sure it will continue on this Forum. I think we all only want good to come out of that thread.

    Many posters have already mentioned things that I hadn't noticed at first like, the beltpath, type of car, etc.... That photo is a perfect example of the importance of a child restraint. We can speculate if the child would have survived or perished, but the one thing we DO know is that the child restraint stayed in tact, and that we can learn from and educate other parents...
    I usually do avoid them, just like when there are EMT's putting injured /dead into their ambulances- I look away. The dead deserve some dignity- not gawking. The title of thread seemed callous to me also- Bad accident/great install. 'nuff said. I am not looking for any type of thread to be discouraged or banned- I just was wondering who thought the way I do- that all this chit chat seemed base.

    Quote Originally Posted by mominabigtruck View Post
    I was offended because the first thing people started talking about was how it was the semi driver's fault even though there was nothing there to point to that fact, all it was was a picture and because there was a truck in it of course it was assumed that it was their fault. I said what I thought and I stopped posting because I'm not going to get upset about people posting ignorant statements just because they have a preconceived bias.
    People jump to conclusions ALL the time about who is to blame- and knowing that you (mominabigtruck) are on this board - someone saying that almost is a slap in the face. Trucks scare the daylights out of me- so I drive very cautiously around them- I almost never pass one, either, I'd rather go 55 in the right lane forever!

    Anyway- I just thought it was cruel to wonder about this poor dead woman's car seat installation. Obviously, the seat is a great one and we should all go buy comfortsports again! (that was me being sarcastic) I happened to love my comfortsport....

  9. #8
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    I guess I'm not seeing the level of heartlessness you are, yoshi

    When I read and commented it was only from the perspective of feeling horrible for the poor woman

    And bad for Mominabigtruck, so I had to defend her honor

  10. #9
    Senior Community Member Melizerd's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    wow uhh I'm sorry. My title was not meant to be heartless. I hoped we could learn something and that then somewhere down the road something good would come of a senseless tradgedy.
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  11. #10
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melizerd View Post
    wow uhh I'm sorry. My title was not meant to be heartless. I hoped we could learn something and that then somewhere down the road something good would come of a senseless tradgedy.
    I think the whole story was very sad but it does show what carseats can withstand and I don't regret seeing the picture, thanks for sharing it and don't worry about it.

  12. #11
    CPS Fanatic mominabigtruck's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeBeans View Post
    And bad for Mominabigtruck, so I had to defend her honor


    Thanks
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  13. #12
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    i dont think any of us can pass conclusions on whose fault the accident was. while its highly unlikely that a family member or someone close to the accident would come and search our boards for comments left about it, i suppose it could happen, in which case i dont think some of the comments that were left would be appropriate. but what are the chances of that happening?

    it was a thought provoking picture. and so people posted their thoughts. i think that we all just need to take it for what it is, a carseat that survived a horrible crash. whether or not the child that wouldve been restrained in that particular carseat (properly or improperly) had they been in the vehicle isnt really something anyone can give a definate anwser, but it is awesome that we have the ability as humans beings to ponder it, and not just accept it as the inevitable.

    and as far as gawking at it, i dont know that that is the word i wouldve used. i dont think anyone gawked at it. i found myself staring in awe at the power of force that was obviously involved in that crash. i dont even know that i viewed many of the posts as passing judgments on the driver or the car or the trucker, but merely examining all of the possible situations that could have played out.

    i guess i can see both sides of everyone's point (but thats just it, everyone has a point they want everyone else to hear and understand. so shouldnt everyone get a chance to comment on their thoughts? im sure they think their point is just as important as the next persons). should we be dissecting the seat and all of the possible mistakes that may have been involved, and relying on our conclusion as fact? probably not, and i dont think anyone is. for all we know the driver could have strapped it in just to take it to the babysitters house. so do we know that it wouldve been used incorrectly? no. can it still be discussed? yes. i think that seeing pictures like this makes me drive a little bit safer and little more passively. no matter whose fault the accident was.

  14. #13
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlsadc View Post
    i dont think any of us can pass conclusions on whose fault the accident was. while its highly unlikely that a family member or someone close to the accident would come and search our boards for comments left about it, i suppose it could happen, in which case i dont think some of the comments that were left would be appropriate. but what are the chances of that happening?

    it was a thought provoking picture. and so people posted their thoughts. i think that we all just need to take it for what it is, a carseat that survived a horrible crash. whether or not the child that wouldve been restrained in that particular carseat (properly or improperly) had they been in the vehicle isnt really something anyone can give a definate anwser, but it is awesome that we have the ability as humans beings to ponder it, and not just accept it as the inevitable.

    and as far as gawking at it, i dont know that that is the word i wouldve used. i dont think anyone gawked at it. i found myself staring in awe at the power of force that was obviously involved in that crash. i dont even know that i viewed many of the posts as passing judgments on the driver or the car or the trucker, but merely examining all of the possible situations that could have played out.

    i guess i can see both sides of everyone's point (but thats just it, everyone has a point they want everyone else to hear and understand. so shouldnt everyone get a chance to comment on their thoughts? im sure they think their point is just as important as the next persons). should we be dissecting the seat and all of the possible mistakes that may have been involved, and relying on our conclusion as fact? probably not, and i dont think anyone is. for all we know the driver could have strapped it in just to take it to the babysitters house. so do we know that it wouldve been used incorrectly? no. can it still be discussed? yes. i think that seeing pictures like this makes me drive a little bit safer and little more passively. no matter whose fault the accident was.
    Amber, I think you made a very valuable assessment of the whole issue. I agree with you on many things you say, actually. I was just upset by the (to me, at least) seemingly detached attitude some posters had-i.e. wanting to see more photos at different angles,etc. It just seemed somehow wrong to me and I had to say it. I was speaking form an emotional standpoint when I first posted, and even though everyone defended their stance, I still feel the same way. If it was your car, your child's seat- how would you feel?

  15. #14
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by rlsadc View Post
    it was a thought provoking picture. and so people posted their thoughts. i think that we all just need to take it for what it is, a carseat that survived a horrible crash. whether or not the child that wouldve been restrained in that particular carseat (properly or improperly) had they been in the vehicle isnt really something anyone can give a definate anwser, but it is awesome that we have the ability as humans beings to ponder it, and not just accept it as the inevitable.

    and as far as gawking at it, i dont know that that is the word i wouldve used. i dont think anyone gawked at it. i found myself staring in awe at the power of force that was obviously involved in that crash. i dont even know that i viewed many of the posts as passing judgments on the driver or the car or the trucker, but merely examining all of the possible situations that could have played out.
    I think being able to learn from collisions is a good thing. It helps the industry to grow and better our safety standards.
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  16. #15
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Well, I feel bad for the family, but I'm not going to cry over them.. Yes, it's very sad, but I don't know them, so it's hard for me to be too emotional about it. KWIM?

    I think the pictures are interesting. I think ALL crash pictures are interesting. Very facinating. And a way to learn about what can go wrong, how things happen, etc..
    Janice, no longer a CPST, and now a single Mommy to C, 10 and big enough to pass the 5-step test and S(born 12/9/09), in a Roundabout 50.

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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshiandluke View Post
    Amber, I think you made a very valuable assessment of the whole issue. I agree with you on many things you say, actually. I was just upset by the (to me, at least) seemingly detached attitude some posters had-i.e. wanting to see more photos at different angles,etc. It just seemed somehow wrong to me and I had to say it. I was speaking form an emotional standpoint when I first posted, and even though everyone defended their stance, I still feel the same way. If it was your car, your child's seat- how would you feel?
    if it were my car and my seat and i were dead.

    i dont think i would mind the picture being shown. i think it speaks volumes to others, and if it benefits one person, then i wouldnt mind. i realize that might not be what you may feel, and rightfully so. and i can also get where youre coming from emotionally, its a sad story. but like i said, i think that picture speaks volumes. and like i also said before, looking at that picture makes me drive a little slower and a little more passive, so i think it is making a difference. what has happened cant be changed, but what hasnt can be prevented. and i think this is an awesome prevention tool in more ways than one.

    but i can understand where your coming from and think your feelings on the issue are valid. i am just coming at it from another view point.

  18. #17
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshiandluke View Post
    I was just upset by the (to me, at least) seemingly detached attitude some posters had-i.e. wanting to see more photos at different angles,etc. It just seemed somehow wrong to me and I had to say it. I was speaking form an emotional standpoint when I first posted, and even though everyone defended their stance, I still feel the same way. If it was your car, your child's seat- how would you feel?

    I guess this is in reference to me. I am sorry if you were offended by me wanting to see more pictures. I am very interested in crash scenes (whether fatal or not). I think it stems from my curiousity about my own severe collision when I was a teenager (I actually called to get photos of my crash scene). I also like to know the whole story and not just assumptions from pieces (or pics) of the story. Again, I am sorry. It was not my intention to seem detached.

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  19. #18
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurenc0101 View Post
    I guess this is in reference to me. I am sorry if you were offended by me wanting to see more pictures. I am very interested in crash scenes (whether fatal or not). I think it stems from my curiousity about my own severe collision when I was a teenager (I actually called to get photos of my crash scene). I also like to know the whole story and not just assumptions from pieces (or pics) of the story. Again, I am sorry. It was not my intention to seem detached.
    I understand. I am just very superstitious myself. My sister was in a bad accident as a young woman and lived- but I can still remember the photos for the insurance company showing the blood on her seat...I get chills thinking about it. You are entitled to feel the way you do, too. As is everyone.

  20. #19
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurenc0101 View Post
    I guess this is in reference to me. I am sorry if you were offended by me wanting to see more pictures. I am very interested in crash scenes (whether fatal or not). I think it stems from my curiousity about my own severe collision when I was a teenager (I actually called to get photos of my crash scene). I also like to know the whole story and not just assumptions from pieces (or pics) of the story. Again, I am sorry. It was not my intention to seem detached.
    I don't think you should feel bad for wanting to see more pictures, we're all different people and will have different reactions to emotional things like fatal crash scenes. I can see how having a serious discussion about car seats surviving fatal crashes might seem disrespectful. But I also understand the desire to learn from tragedy. And if talking about it helps people deal with the reality that we drive our precious little ones around in a world where people are killed everyday on the road, then I think that is okay. We all process things differently. People dying in car accidents is a reality we must all understand so that we can try to do our part to prevent it.

    And FWIW, I took pictures of the crash that totaled my car and of my injuries. To me those pictures are a memento of something I survived and learned from. And if I were someday killed in a crash I would be okay with people looking at, discussing, and learning from that accident.

  21. #20
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    Re: Is it Just me....or does armchair quarterbacking horrific accidents seem wrong?

    Back in highschool there was a paramedic who travelled around to all of the highschools in the province (Norbert Georget) speaking about the horrific alcohol-related accidents that he had attended. He brought in a body bag, he described what it was like to pick up body parts...and he showed pictures of crash scenes. He had a huge impact on a lot of people...but none was so great as the day he gave his slide presentation and a young girl ran from the gym crying because her dead brother's mangled truck had just flashed across the screen. After that he changed his presentation...he included the incident in his speech so that he could continue to educate and to drive home the fact that it could happen to anyone.

    Anytime there is a chance to respectfully learn from a tragedy I think it should be done, you never know when it might help save a life.

    I think of the video of the man who is driving a stolen bait car (I think it is on Papooses website and it was shown in my CRST class). Because we now know that he actually died in the crash, it doesn't keep us from watching it and using it as an example of why you should always wear your seatbelt...but it does disturb me that a person died and knowing that made it harder to watch in my tech class, in fact I think I may have turned away and after it was over I shared the fact that to the best of my knowledge the man was dead.

    I am grateful that there was no child involved in the tragedy that started this whole discussion...just because the car seat survived does not mean that a child would have. A very tragic loss of life and a lifetime of heartache for those left behind. My heart goes out to them.

    I'm not sure where I am going with all of this, it is late and I am rambling and tired. I've really appreciated being able to read everyone's posts on the topic, really makes a person think.
    Jacqui ~ Rylan ~ 08.13.02 ~ 57.2lbs on 9/26/08 ~ Radian 65
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