Carseats and planes

mlohry

New member
Not sure if this will get moved, but it's more of an observation than a question. Last night I picked my DH up from the airport and got there a bit early, so watched lots of people come in from the concourse after they got off the plane. I saw numerous strollers and babies, under 1 and only one car seat. I was shocked. Do people really think it's safe to have lap kids? I am wondering if what I saw was norm. Not to mention all the seats that got checked as baggage :(
 
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creideamh

Well-known member
Yes, most definitely the norm. I've flown 6+ times with DD already, and she has always been the only one with a seat on the plane.
 

Brianna

New member
I post on Yahoo Answers, and there are lots of questions about flying with lap babies. I'd say less than 10% of my answers about buying a seat for baby, why it's important, why it's not safe to check car seats, etc. actually get a response indicating that they've changed their mind and will buy baby a seat. They see the cost of purchasing an extra ticket and say they just can't afford it.
 

Traquy

New member
I post on Yahoo Answers, and there are lots of questions about flying with lap babies. I'd say less than 10% of my answers about buying a seat for baby, why it's important, why it's not safe to check car seats, etc. actually get a response indicating that they've changed their mind and will buy baby a seat. They see the cost of purchasing an extra ticket and say they just can't afford it.

I think the main answer I would give people asking that question is to take their seat to the gate with them, and if there is an empty seat then take the car seat on and have it for their child. If it is sold out, you gate check the seat and go on with a lap child. An extra ticket IS unaffordable for some people and I think it's unrealistic to ask them to forgo a trip because of it. I think in 4 round trip flights with DD before she was 2 I only had to gate check her seat once because the flight was sold out, all other times I got a seat for her for free. This is why I almost exclusively flew Southwest, SO much easier to get that last remaining seat without having to rearrange people.
 

SeattleRain

New member
Do people really think it's safe to have lap kids?

Yes. I think the idea of using a carseat on a plane as a safety feature is really limited to people who are really interested in carseats and safety in general. Planes don't require them, they don't really say anything about them in general. The language of carseats implies that they are used in a car, and that they protect against crashes and most people believe an air crash isn't survivable (to which they are probably correct).
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I think the main answer I would give people asking that question is to take their seat to the gate with them, and if there is an empty seat then take the car seat on and have it for their child. If it is sold out, you gate check the seat and go on with a lap child. An extra ticket IS unaffordable for some people and I think it's unrealistic to ask them to forgo a trip because of it. I think in 4 round trip flights with DD before she was 2 I only had to gate check her seat once because the flight was sold out, all other times I got a seat for her for free. This is why I almost exclusively flew Southwest, SO much easier to get that last remaining seat without having to rearrange people.

A few years ago is different from now. Now, almost all flights are oversold, and standby customers will get that seat instead of a baby.

People who really need to fly with kids over 2 find a way to afford it. People who really need to fly with kids under 2 should too.

In my family, if I can't afford for the whole family to be safe I can't afford the trip.

I am in favor of mandating tickets for infants and toddlers under 2, and mandating use of car seats for these passengers.

I wouldn't re-use a car seat that had been gate-checked without significant protection (like, bubble-wrap level.) I've seen gate-checked seats and strollers tossed off the plane, several of them miss and bounce before being picked up and loaded onto the cart.
 

Ninetales

New member
The misconception is that if it weren't safe they wouldn't allow it. Which is not true - the FAA recommends everyone of every age have his own seat. they just are afraid less people would fly if it were required.
 

Jan06twinmom

New member
The misconception is that if it weren't safe they wouldn't allow it. Which is not true - the FAA recommends everyone of every age have his own seat. they just are afraid less people would fly if it were required.

I agree with that people believe it is safe or it wouldn't be allowed. My BIL also thinks that you don't need a car seat because a plane crash isn't survivable.

I can't find data that supports car seats preventing injuries or death from crashes - even on the ground. I also couldn't find any data saying how many lap babies are injured due to turbulance.

From all of my research, I really think the most compelling reason to take a car seat onboard is to prevent it from getting lost or damaged.
 
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Brianna

New member
ketchupqueen said:
People who really need to fly with kids over 2 find a way to afford it. People who really need to fly with kids under 2 should too.

My thoughts exactly.
 

mlohry

New member
Interesting conversation. I really thought the majority of people would take their seats with them. I was very surprised that I was really wrong. I was on a plane once that hit horrible turbulence and it would have been very difficult to hold a child on my lap. I've never flown with my children and maybe it's hard to keep your child in their seat the whole time too. I don't know if my 2 year old would want to stay in her seat with me sitting next to her in something that was obviously not a car. I would try though.
 

misstj9

New member
People who really need to fly with kids over 2 find a way to afford it. People who really need to fly with kids under 2 should too.

Well said, and I totally agree!

In all my life of flying I've never had a flight with issues that a car seat would have helped *knock on wood*. But that fact makes me think, each time I fly, "this could be the time it happens to me". Before I was car seat crazy I took my seat onboard because I didn't want to check it (having seen the damage a suitcase gets I just had a gut feeling that would be bad for a car seat!), not because I thought there was any safety value to my child sitting in it. Now I know better.

I also find that my kids fly better (under age 2) when in their carseat because they are used to it, they treat it like a car road trip, and they can sleep in their car seats much more comfortably.
 

Pixels

New member
Why wouldn't people think that it's safe, when we have a major government agency saying that it is safe?
 

SeattleRain

New member
The misconception is that if it weren't safe they wouldn't allow it. Which is not true - the FAA recommends everyone of every age have his own seat. they just are afraid less people would fly if it were required.

Why would you think that the average person reads FAA recommendations?

I can't believe people are surprised that people don't take their seats on board. Taking one's seats on board costs the price of the whole ticket and plenty of people don't want to spend that kind of money and don't see a reason to do so. Considering the rate of injury of children who are improperly restrained and get injured in cars and the rate of injury of children who are improperly restrained on planes I just don't think carseats on planes is the hill that I would die on.
 

An Aurora

Senior Community Member
Pixels said:
Why wouldn't people think that it's safe, when we have a major government agency saying that it is safe?

The NTSB, which is above the FAA, recommends everyone have their own seat. They are proponents of use of car seats on planes for infants and children.

Posted by a robot and susceptible to unrelated and potentially inappropriate AutoCorrects.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
I'm going to stir the pot a little, I'm afraid...

Plane crashes, "survivable" or not, are much more rare than car crashes. Air plane travel overall is hugely more safe for everyone than driving in a car.

I have never been able to dig up any really good statistics, but I suspect that flying somewhere without a car seat is safer than driving to the same location with a car seat. And this is the rational for why children under 2 are not required to have a ticket. All things considered, the people who make these decisions have decided that it would actually increase the risk to the child to make the trip in a car (with the car seat and all) than it would to have the child fly on a parent's lap. By requiring parents to buy plane tickets for their infants and young toddlers, they feel it would increase highway fatalities and injuries because more families would choose to drive.

Unlike flying, driving is one of the most dangerous things we do with our children. Possibly THE most dangerous thing we normally do with our children.

When my family went to Hawaii this year, we did not buy a ticket for the baby. We did, however, bring her car seat on the plane with us. Only on one of the inter-island hopping flights was the plane too full to use it. And on another one, we assumed it would be too full so we gate-checked it only to find out the plane was half empty. But she used her seat on both the mainland flights and on 3 out of 5 of our island hopping flights. All without buying her a ticket.

Of course, driving to Hawaii isn't an option, but if I were going to, say, Florida, and I had to choose between flying with the risk of having the baby on my lap if the flight is full, or driving with the car seat in the car, I feel a lot more safer flying.

We don't get all bent out of shape when children ride busses or trains or light rail without so much as a seat belt. Why are airplanes any different?

Would the child be safer with a car seat on the plane than without? OF COURSE. I'm not arguing that point. I also wouldn't check a car seat as luggage. And if I could afford to make the trip while buying my child a seat on the plane to be SURE the restraint could be used, I would. (Although, even then, I've heard enough stories of people not being allowed to use their car seats even though they bought a ticket I'm not sure that's even guaranteed). But given the rarity of plane crashes, I do feel that experiencing family vacations is important enough of an experience and bonding time for my family that I do not believe it's better to just stay home than risk having your baby ride on your lap on an airplane.

And yes, I know occasionally turbulence can get really bad, but if you're wearing your seat belt (as you should be) and holding on to your tot it's really not the same thing as trying to hold your baby in a collision. Would it be hard, tiring, and have some risk? Yes. But life has risk in it. We do our best to limit the risk (hence car seats in cars, and when possible, in air planes) but sometimes I think the risk of living in a bubble (and not exposing your children to important experiences) is higher than the risk of something bad happening. If I wanted to eliminate all risk of injury during transportation, I'd never take my child in a car with or without a car seat. And I still believe (until I'm proven otherwise) that air travel without a car seat is less risky than car travel with one. So if I'm willing to take the baby with me to the grocery store, I ought to be willing to take the baby with me on vacation. Even if I can't afford to get her a separate ticket.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
I'm going to stir the pot a little, I'm afraid...

Plane crashes, "survivable" or not, are much more rare than car crashes. Air plane travel overall is hugely more safe for everyone than driving in a car.

I have never been able to dig up any really good statistics, but I suspect that flying somewhere without a car seat is safer than driving to the same location with a car seat. And this is the rational for why children under 2 are not required to have a ticket. All things considered, the people who make these decisions have decided that it would actually increase the risk to the child to make the trip in a car (with the car seat and all) than it would to have the child fly on a parent's lap. By requiring parents to buy plane tickets for their infants and young toddlers, they feel it would increase highway fatalities and injuries because more families would choose to drive.

Unlike flying, driving is one of the most dangerous things we do with our children. Possibly THE most dangerous thing we normally do with our children.

When my family went to Hawaii this year, we did not buy a ticket for the baby. We did, however, bring her car seat on the plane with us. Only on one of the inter-island hopping flights was the plane too full to use it. And on another one, we assumed it would be too full so we gate-checked it only to find out the plane was half empty. But she used her seat on both the mainland flights and on 3 out of 5 of our island hopping flights. All without buying her a ticket.

Of course, driving to Hawaii isn't an option, but if I were going to, say, Florida, and I had to choose between flying with the risk of having the baby on my lap if the flight is full, or driving with the car seat in the car, I feel a lot more safer flying.

We don't get all bent out of shape when children ride busses or trains or light rail without so much as a seat belt. Why are airplanes any different?

Would the child be safer with a car seat on the plane than without? OF COURSE. I'm not arguing that point. I also wouldn't check a car seat as luggage. And if I could afford to make the trip while buying my child a seat on the plane to be SURE the restraint could be used, I would. (Although, even then, I've heard enough stories of people not being allowed to use their car seats even though they bought a ticket I'm not sure that's even guaranteed). But given the rarity of plane crashes, I do feel that experiencing family vacations is important enough of an experience and bonding time for my family that I do not believe it's better to just stay home than risk having your baby ride on your lap on an airplane.

And yes, I know occasionally turbulence can get really bad, but if you're wearing your seat belt (as you should be) and holding on to your tot it's really not the same thing as trying to hold your baby in a collision. Would it be hard, tiring, and have some risk? Yes. But life has risk in it. We do our best to limit the risk (hence car seats in cars, and when possible, in air planes) but sometimes I think the risk of living in a bubble (and not exposing your children to important experiences) is higher than the risk of something bad happening. If I wanted to eliminate all risk of injury during transportation, I'd never take my child in a car with or without a car seat. And I still believe (until I'm proven otherwise) that air travel without a car seat is less risky than car travel with one. So if I'm willing to take the baby with me to the grocery store, I ought to be willing to take the baby with me on vacation. Even if I can't afford to get her a separate ticket.

While all this is true, I HAVE been on flights where turbulence injured lap children. It's not usually severe- bumps and bruises- but heck, if I can keep my kid safe even from that, I will.

The main risk to me is the risk to the car seat. Again, having seen how gate-checked car seats and strollers are treated, I'd never gate-check a car seat without SIGNIFICANT protection (not just a bag) and expect to reuse it.

Also, I see a lot of kids' car seats being checked, and gate-checked, who are over 2. Uh, why not take it on the plane? I don't really get that. You already purchased the ticket! If it's a harnessed seat (and that's what I'm talking about), why not use it? But people don't.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
Also, I see a lot of kids' car seats being checked, and gate-checked, who are over 2. Uh, why not take it on the plane? I don't really get that. You already purchased the ticket! If it's a harnessed seat (and that's what I'm talking about), why not use it? But people don't.

Well on this, we are 100% in agreement. If my child has a ticket, my child rides in the car seat. Period.
 

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