SK/Diono's explaination of shoulders above the harness slots

christineka · Aug 29, 2011

I asked why the shoulders were allowed over in the radian, but not in any other brand of car seat. Here's the response:

We are always willing to share information: Excessive vertical G-forces measured during crash testing are indicative of the potential for spinal compression injury. In crash testing Radian seats with a 10yr old 80 lb dummy (whose shoulders are approx. 1.5” above the top harness slot) the vertical G-forces are well below the limits in FMVSS213. Much of this can be attributed to Radian’s installation stability and steel frame structure.

What do you think? My ds' shoulders are a tad above the harness slots in the radian.

Lea_Ontario · Aug 29, 2011

I think that is one very short torso'd dummy !

My tiny just-turned 9-yr old sat in our Radian yesterday, and his shoulders were easily 2 1/2 inches or more above the slots already !

As for the rest - I don't care what they say, I will NOT use the Radian with a child who's shoulders are above the top slots, in anything short of an emergency.

Kecia · Aug 29, 2011

It's true that the issue with straps routed below shoulder level when FF are based on concerns about spinal compression. But if they're confident that this isn't a concern with their seats then I don't personally have a problem with using it that way. Just remember that you still have the 53" stated height limit.

Mags462 · Aug 29, 2011

I don't own a Radian so take this for what its worth - but i personally will never. It insinuates that the installation plays an element. Well what about Joe Blow Public who doesn't install it correctly. Very risky advisement IMO. I don't like it, and will not use it that way.

Pixels · Aug 29, 2011

If the company allows it, I have no problem doing it, absent any evidence that there is an actual risk.

BookMama · Aug 29, 2011

That's about my DS' size - he's 10.5Y, 76 lbs, 56" and probably 1.5" above the top slots of the Radian. He used our Radian until right after he turned 9 (he hit 65 lbs. at the same time) in order to accommodate 3-across in our tiny Focus. I had no qualms about letting him use it with his shoulders above the top slots, per the manual.

Kecia said:
It's true that the issue with straps routed below shoulder level when FF are based on concerns about spinal compression. But if they're confident that this isn't a concern with their seats then I don't personally have a problem with using it that way. Just remember that you still have the 53" stated height limit.

:yeahthat:

luckyclov · Aug 30, 2011

Kecia said:
It's true that the issue with straps routed below shoulder level when FF are based on concerns about spinal compression. But if they're confident that this isn't a concern with their seats then I don't personally have a problem with using it that way. Just remember that you still have the 53" stated height limit.

Yeah, that.

I, personally, won't use it that way, but that doesn't mean I would steer someone else from doing so. SKJP/Diono tested it thoroughly as such and approved it. That's good enough.

They also stand firm on their 80-lb SL weight limit, in any vehicle, even those, from what I understand, that do not defer to the CR manufacturer. That's another area, I, personally, am not comfortable with, but if they approve/allow it, they approve/allow it.

Just out of curiousity, was it Allana who responded to your question?

bnsnyde · Aug 30, 2011

Good info to know! Thanks.

We are not going to use it once his shoulders go over since now there are seats on the market that go higher anyway.

Stelvis · Aug 30, 2011

Do the dummies actually have sensors that measure spinal compression? Also if it's a 10 year old vs., say a very tall 5 year old we're talking about, would the difference in spine maturity be a factor?

Pixels · Aug 30, 2011

Seats? Plural? AFAIK, only the Frontier85.

canadiancpst · Aug 30, 2011

clov878 said:
They also stand firm on their 80-lb SL weight limit, in any vehicle, even those, from what I understand, that do not defer to the CR manufacturer. That's another area, I, personally, am not comfortable with, but if they approve/allow it, they approve/allow it.

I never heard of going over the top slots and I think my manual says NO and yes I will double check when I am in the van tonight. They may stand by the 80lbs limit but consider in Canada they can't even get the seat approved for more then 65 lbs in the harness!! So I would NOT be using it for an 80lber with latch!!

Pixels · Aug 30, 2011

canadiancpst said:
I never heard of going over the top slots and I think my manual says NO and yes I will double check when I am in the van tonight. They may stand by the 80lbs limit but consider in Canada they can't even get the seat approved for more then 65 lbs in the harness!! So I would NOT be using it for an 80lber with latch!!

Canada does not have the rule that allows use over the top slots. Only the US does.

No, they can't get it approved for 80 pounds in Canada because Canadian regulation doesn't allow for seats over 65 pounds.. It's not that the seat doesn't perform well, it's that the law doesn't go there.

Brianna · Aug 30, 2011

canadiancpst said:
I never heard of going over the top slots and I think my manual says NO and yes I will double check when I am in the van tonight. They may stand by the 80lbs limit but consider in Canada they can't even get the seat approved for more then 65 lbs in the harness!! So I would NOT be using it for an 80lber with latch!!

Forgive me if I'm confused- but I thought that the standards in Canada don't allow for harnessed seats about 65 pounds? I vaguely recall reading that here a while ago... can anybody clarify for me?

*ETA
Pixels answered my question before it even posted :thumbsup:

Pixels · Aug 30, 2011

christineka said:
I asked why the shoulders were allowed over in the radian, but not in any other brand of car seat.

Other brands used to allow shoulders over the top slots but changed their rule. You might want to contact Britax and ask them why they changed it.

luckyclov · Aug 30, 2011

bnsnyde said:
Good info to know! Thanks.

We are not going to use it once his shoulders go over since now there are seats on the market that go higher anyway.

The Frontier85 is the only seat on the current market with taller top slots (at 20"). Well, unless you count the discontinued Regent.

bnsnyde · Aug 30, 2011

I was just thinking of the Frontier85, so yes, singular.
But with the option of SICT or not.

canadiancpst · Aug 30, 2011

Really I need to double check that then because during training and the last clinic we were talking about that and it was stated it didn't pass the new tests. Anyone have links I can start with for review? I would love to pass the info on to other techs I work with.

ETA: I have 2 radians and love them !!

carseatcoach · Aug 30, 2011

clov878 said:
The Frontier85 is the only seat on the current market with taller top slots (at 20"). Well, unless you count the discontinued Regent.

Food for thought, but if SKJP/Diono allows 1.5" above the top slot of 18", that'd be sorta like a 19.5" top slot. But how likely (my kids have long torsos and giant heads, so I have no clue) is it for a child to be able to go 1.5" above the top slot and still have the proper head-in-shell containment?

The Radian claims 18", but measures and fits more like 17"-17.5". The Nautilus is a solid 18.5", so I think it counts as a taller seat as well.

canadiancpst · Aug 30, 2011

carseatcoach said:
The Radian claims 18", but measures and fits more like 17"-17.5". The Nautilus is a solid 18.5", so I think it counts as a taller seat as well.

When trying out seats in our van the frontier didn't provide my DS with any more height slot then the Nautilus which saddens me because he may need to go to a booster sooner rather then later

luckyclov · Aug 30, 2011

canadiancpst said:
When trying out seats in our van the frontier didn't provide my DS with any more height slot then the Nautilus which saddens me because he may need to go to a booster sooner rather then later

Are top slots the same in Canada as in the US on these seats?

My DD, a long torso'ed 47.5" outgrew the Nauti awhile ago, but still has about 3/4" left to grow in the FR85. My DS1 still "technically" fits in the FR85 (harness is *at* shoulder level, I probably wouldn't use it that way - personal choice) and he's 51".

SK/Diono's explaination of shoulders above the harness slots

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