Another RF tether thread

creideamh · Aug 24, 2011

I know there's another post on this today, but a few of our instructors spoke about it in class earlier. The main one who discussed it specifically said he would absolutely not tell a parent to use an RF tether, ever, unless the vehicle manual expressly says it was ok, and that in the US, manufacturers are really anti-RF tether. The other 2 instructors pretty much backed him up.

I understand the vehicle manual thing, but as techs, do you even give info on what the RF tether does, and then let them decide? He said he tells parents "I don't recommend it and won't tell you it's ok" and leaves it at that (no info on purpose, benefits, how you'd even go about using it, etc) and pretty much made me doubt whether I should even be using it on my BV70, XTSL, & CCO. (I still will, but now I'm seriously like, uhhh....) I feel like if we keep telling parents who come in for checks NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS (vs explaining both sides and letting them decide), they're going to view us negatively.

And as a side-note, what vehicle manufacturers even say they allow it? I didn't think it was even part of a manual, for ANY car. The only manuals I know well are Toyota's and Subaru's.

ketchupqueen · Aug 24, 2011

I always tell parents about the benefits, controversies, and risks, as I evaluate whether there is a place for a RF tether, if their car seat allows it. If there is a spot, I let them make the choice, and I'd say 90% choose to tether. If there is not a spot, I let them know but tell them if they ever get a different vehicle I'd be happy to help them find a spot if they so desire.

Manufacturers don't address it AT ALL except Volvo- sometimes Volvo has designated spots for RF tethering. So they don't say yes OR no. However all the manufacturers that make cars sold in Europe, allow it in their European cars, and not all of them have designated spots, quite a few rely on following the car seat manufacturer's instructions to create one.

It's very infrequently I'd advise against RF tethering flat-out if it was possible- like, if the vehicle had rusted rails on the front seats, I'd point that out and state that I wouldn't consider that a safe place to tether because even though it could be done, I'd be afraid it would break.

LISmama810 · Aug 24, 2011

ketchupqueen said:
I always tell parents about the benefits, controversies, and risks, as I evaluate whether there is a place for a RF tether, if their car seat allows it.

:yeahthat:

To complicate the vehicle issue, I could have sworn I've read posts here before about how although some Volvos appear to have a perfect RF tether spot, Volvo has actually said those are NOT to be used for rear tethering because it...interferes? With something? (not advanced airbags, something else)

creideamh · Aug 24, 2011

Thank you both. I always assumed I'd be explaining everything I knew and leave it to them to decide (which is really my POV anyway), not just completely ignoring the question and basically saying "figure it out yourself." That's essentially what he said he'd recommend doing, and I didn't really want to argue. He also said vehicle manufacturers have been ignoring the RF tether for awhile and have recently (like the past year or so) started to say they don't like it and not to do it, which I had never heard. (He also said that's why they put the plastic things on the seat tracks, to discourage people from using them to hook the tether loop around. I thought the plastic shield things were there to make the interior more attractive.)

KaiLing · Aug 24, 2011

I liked the wording in the 2011 LATCH manual (which I don't own, so I'm paraphrasing). It said something like "vehicle manufacturers are unlikely to address the placement of a tether. If we are going to tether it is up to us to tether in an place that can handle crash forces". I felt like that freed me to make my own decisions, like what ketchupqueen describes, rather than being stuck looking in the vehicle manual for a line that expressly discussed RF tethering.

I like to tether my Radian. That thing's just huge. I've helped friends tether. But if someone wants to run down the bullet points about the pros and cons that they share with clients I'd, for one, like to read it. I'm not sure I've got all the bases covered.

ketchupqueen · Aug 24, 2011

creideamh said:
Thank you both. I always assumed I'd be explaining everything I knew and leave it to them to decide (which is really my POV anyway), not just completely ignoring the question and basically saying "figure it out yourself." That's essentially what he said he'd recommend doing, and I didn't really want to argue. He also said vehicle manufacturers have been ignoring the RF tether for awhile and have recently (like the past year or so) started to say they don't like it and not to do it, which I had never heard. (He also said that's why they put the plastic things on the seat tracks, to discourage people from using them to hook the tether loop around. I thought the plastic shield things were there to make the interior more attractive.)

Even the best Instructors (with the exception of the ones on this board, I'm sure

) occasionally let their non-factual opinions override the facts/evidence, or make mistakes, and that gets passed on to their students.

You're right, the plastic is just to make it look pretty.

I advise not arguing with your instructor, listening to what he says, and then doing what YOU feel is best when you are in charge of instructing parents.

creideamh · Aug 24, 2011

Awesome. I made a couple friends who are like me and look at both sides of things, so I think I will share this info with them since he was SO pushy about absolutely not RF tethering.

They also are REALLY hyper about cocooning and how good it is in a crash (and a main reason to RF for a long time)- I know SOME cocooning is beneficial, and that's why the RF tether shouldn't be so insanely tight, but... what? They've repeated this like, 10 times already. I know my 2 friends are going to ask about this with RF tethering.

NannyMom · Aug 24, 2011

We found out at Kids In Motion that if you ask the vehicle companies about RF tethering..... you will be interrupted by someone from Safe Ride News asking you not to open that can of worms

LISmama810 · Aug 24, 2011

NannyMom said:
We found out at Kids In Motion that if you ask the vehicle companies about RF tethering..... you will be interrupted by someone from Safe Ride News asking you not to open that can of worms

What? Why?

BTW, I found an old thread on the Volvo issue if anyone cares to read. You need access to the tech forum, though. (Is it ok to link that here? If not, mods, feel free to delete.) http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=62358

NannyMom · Aug 24, 2011

LISmama810 said:
What? Why?

Because the vehicle manufacturers haven't tested anything as a RF tether point. So, what will they do? They will say no...don't do it. They can't say yes, because they haven't tested it. But if they don't tell us NO, we can continue in our happy little RF tethering world. Toyota and Volkswagen were there for that Manufacturer panel. Volkswagon started to answer, and SRN interrupted.

creideamh · Aug 24, 2011

NannyMom said:
Because the vehicle manufacturers haven't tested anything as a RF tether point. So, what will they do? They will say no...don't do it. They can't say yes, because they haven't tested it. But if they don't tell us NO, we can continue in our happy little RF tethering world.

This is another reason they gave... they want to avoid any liability, but as much as they pushed the "educate" part of being a tech, I'm pretty ticked that they want us to keep our mouths shut vs giving both sides and letting the parent decide.

LISmama810 · Aug 24, 2011

NannyMom said:
Because the vehicle manufacturers haven't tested anything as a RF tether point. So, what will they do? They will say no...don't do it. They can't say yes, because they haven't tested it. But if they don't tell us NO, we can continue in our happy little RF tethering world. Toyota and Volkswagen were there for that Manufacturer panel. Volkswagon started to answer, and SRN interrupted.

Given that some airbag sensors are in the seat track, I'd actually like to know if manufacturers are ok with it or not. I don't remember if it was Honda or Toyota or both, but I remember that was one concern they had. They didn't say "Don't do it," but they did raise it as a potential issue.

Given that RF tethering is more of an above-and-beyond thing, I'd like some actual answers if there is, indeed, a problem with it. (Not that I think there really is...and I do realize the manufacturers could pull a CYA and prohibit it all together...)

Another RF tether thread

creideamh

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