Question son's father won't install correctly

leannegoolsby

CPS Technician
Newbie here... :)

My son is 25 months, 34", 28 lbs. He rides ERF in a Radian XTSL in my 2003 subaru outback. superb install. no problems there!

his father and i are not together... i have sole legal/physical custody, his father has parenting time. his father drives a 2005 or 2006 subaru forester and has a Complete Air 65. BUT HE REFUSES TO INSTALL IT CORRECTLY.

over the past year+, i have found it FF before our son met the seat's requirements, center install using LATCH & seatbelt, outboard FF install using LATCH, etc... every single time it has been incredibly loose. i can move it 8-10 inches in either direction. we're talking LOOOOOSE!

i've tried talking to him, showing him a correct install, giving him another copy of his manual, installing the seat myself... basically everything. now he won't even let me near his car to check the seat. at this point, i know for certain that my child is unsafe when he is riding in his father's car. my question is... what can i do? is there any legal recourse? are there requirements about this? i can't seem to find anything.

one other note: i don't have a lawyer (can't afford one :(), so i'm looking for advice besides "call your lawyer." can any CPST's shed some light on this?

thank you!
 
ADS

mandynee22

New member
If you fibbed a little, might he believe you? "So, I took DS for his dr appointment and she wanted to make sure his car seats had been checked. I made you an appointment next Thurs at 7" or whatever? What state are you? There could be a law for you about proper use, right?
What would a social worker do? I've seen some horrendous installs done by them (ok..some kind of bad, one horrendous). Id go with a lie first lol
 

tiggercat

New member
Legal aid, perhaps?
My husband and I are separated and I am going to have a clause in our divorce agreement about carseat use. He is pretty good about seats and has me install (tricky RF radian for 2yr old) and our 6 and 10 yr old in boosters. I just think it is better for me to have something official just in case.
 

TyAndCheyMommy

New member
We have a similar problem with two of my dsd. Their mother refuses to use boosters for them (or any other child she has- all younger) because she says it takes to long.
She has joint custody....
Last time I got tired of it, we met up to drop off kids, she had none in seats. I called the police. She got ticketed for 4 kids without seats and has to go to court.

I am not sure what the best way for you to go about this is....
 

Jessica61624

New member
My mom threatened my x step dad with calling the police when he had my 8 yr old brother in the front.

What state are you in?
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
Depending on how the custody agreement is worded, could "parenting time" be done without him transporting your son? If it's a few hours, could you meet him somewhere (play area,) drop him off, then pick him up? Or do the same at the father's house?

I would definitely check and see if you're a proper use state; if you are, see if there is a clause in the agreement that requires laws to be followed, the child's safety to be ensured, etc.

Also -- do you think this is a resentment of ERF thing, or an inability to install correctly thing? At over 2, although I would of course prefer to see him RF, I would rather see him in a properly installed FF seat than an improperly installed RF one. Do you think that's an option? (If he's going to install incorrectly regardless, then keep him RF; I think I recall reading somewhere RF is more forgiving of errors, though I can't recall where.)
 

mommycat

Well-known member
I agree that if he is insistent on FF at this point I would let that slide, especially if he was then able/willing to install correctly. (Does he tighten the harness snugly enough, though? You will want to talk to your DS about how snug the harness needs to be and why pretty much constantly when you buckle him in so that he can hopefully make his own decisions and insist on being put in the right way in the future.)

I hope you find some legal recourse to having this fixed, but in the meantime, I would try to talk to his father again, and make sure understands that you are really not just trying to be critical or annoy him, this is a safety issue - the single biggest threat to DS's life and that using the seat properly is critical to preventing injury or death if some nutjob crashes into the vehicle (again, taking any perceived criticism of his driving out of the equation). Tell him you know he loves his son and wants him safe so you don't understand why he is not doing this one simple thing which can make such a big difference. It's not about him or you, it's about your son.

Has he said WHY he keeps doing such inventive installs or why the seat is not tight? Does he know how to lock his seatbelts? Why is he taking the seat in and out instead of installing properly and then leaving it alone? (Maybe FF would make him just leave it in?) I would probably ask him directly WHY it is not possible for him to follow the installation instructions.

I know it could cause issues for you but if you don't find another way I would seriously consider calling the cops on him. I would possibly go in to the police department and talk to a cop about helping you out, that you don't want to call an emerg number but you have this issue with the seat being installed wrong (make sure the cop knows proper install) and you have a pickup at so and so day/time, so could they please come and pull him over/do a road side check on your road/whatever after he leaves the pickup. I dunno.

As I said, I hope you find a way to make him listen. :(
 

Defrost

Moderator - CPSTI Emeritus
You can call your local police dispatch and talk to them, too. When my friend was dealing with this issue, we initially thought we'd have to wait until he drove off with the kids improperly restrained and then call the police. But in our area, they said they would rarely, if ever, respond to a call like that "just" to write up a carseat ticket, BUT if she refused to allow him to take the kids because of the improper restraints, they would treat it as a domestic dispute and come out immediately, and side with her and "school" dad about the seats in their. Anyway, before you're in the situation again, call and ask the best way to handle it.

I think it would be better in the long run, of course, if you could find a way to get him to a seat check, though I realize you can't force him to go.
 

Kaitsmom

New member
I only asked about a social worker because they might be able to even just put in their notes, that could ne used for a custody hearing, that he refuses to install a car seat properly. I dont know if you.can put proper car seat usage in a visitation agreement or not. I would think that not using/ installing a car sest correctly is technically.child endangerment.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Is there something else he's been wanting you to agree to that you could use to bribe him into letting you do all the installs?
 

sweetfeet

New member
Proper car seat usage and following the law regarding their use is in our parenting agreement. It also states that if necessary to make sure car seats are passed between parents at pick up/drop off. My ex is really good at installing seats and using them properly. There are other things that we've bartered on though. Hopefully you have something that he wants that will get him to listen.
 

nevaehsmommy

New member
Maybe he does not know how to install the seat? Radians can be tricky RFing. Maybe an easier to use seat. Even my mom can install the Evenflo chase right. And the way the harness is tighened you do not have to worry about a belly clip.
 

leannegoolsby

CPS Technician
thanks for all the input, everyone. i spent the day on the phone with various agencies and the only one who took me seriously was ACTS Oregon (who manages all the CPSTs in the state). the courthouse said there was basically nothing i could do. the police station said next time he drives off with my son incorrectly installed, to call 911. i don't feel good about doing that (don't want my son to be scared) but i absolutely will if it comes down to it.

to answer a few other questions:
-his visits are 2-3 days in length, so i can't possibly provide all transportation. i wish i could but i know my son's dad will drive him around at some point during his time.
-he has a Complete Air 65... it's a ***** to install in his car (2006 subaru forester) but i can get it tight. i am 5'4" and 115. he's 6'1" 175. there's no reason he shouldn't be getting a tight install. his sister bought it for him and i personally think he needs a different seat, but i can't do anything about it.
-he knows how to do it. he is refusing because he knows it bothers me. it's a power play and it makes me sick that he's using our son's safety like this.
-i really like the "Safety Clause" idea... we are modifying our parenting plan now and i'm going to insist that one be included. can anyone give me examples of what their wording is??? it's going to have to spell EVERYTHING out.
-he takes the seat out a lot because he likes to put his dogs in the back of his car and fold the back seats down. he also sometimes drives his work truck instead of his personal car. incorrect installs in both vehicles.
-if he was FF with a correct install, i wouldn't be worked up. i'd be annoyed but i'd let it slide. it's that he's FF AND incorrectly installing.

did i miss anything? thanks so much for the support, you guys are awesome!!!
 

mommycat

Well-known member
Ugh, the lack of support is frustrating. I hope that you can get it included in the parenting plan and that he follows it. :( Is there any chance that you could get a new seat for him, or convince him to do so? The Evenflo Maestro is not too expensive and typically has a decently simple install, and has nice tall top slots. It is FF only and does turn into a booster, but even if he switches to booster mode earlier than you would like it can't be much worse than a harnessed seat installed with almost a foot of slack. Maybe look around the board for seats that fit well into the Subaru.
 

Brigala

CPST Instructor
-he knows how to do it. he is refusing because he knows it bothers me. it's a power play and it makes me sick that he's using our son's safety like this.
-i really like the "Safety Clause" idea... we are modifying our parenting plan now and i'm going to insist that one be included. can anyone give me examples of what their wording is??? it's going to have to spell EVERYTHING out.

If this is the kind of person he is, I don't think anything other than calling the cops as he drives away is going to help.

What I would put in the parenting plan is something like: Custodial parent is not required to release the child for visitation unless there is a properly fitting and properly installed child restraint in the non-custodial parent's vehicle.

If all you do is require that he has one, he'll ignore it and there will be no way you can enforce it. You need something in writing that says you have the right to take your child home and deny visitation if he shows up without a child restraint or if it's not properly installed. The courts do NOT generally actually enforce parenting agreements (at least, here in Oregon). The best you'd be able to do is drag him into court and possibly have a judge lecture him about it. A lot of good that would do.
 

luckyclov

New member
I'm late to this and haven't read all the responses yet, so I apologize if I'm repeating something here. What an incredibly frustrating situation for you.

You can call your local police dispatch and talk to them, too
I might try this.

Additionally, if you live in a proper usage state, he is, technically, breaking the law by not installing and using the seat properly. I don't imagine informing him that he's potentially breaking the law will go over well, but still...it's something.
 

sweetfeet

New member
Here is what our parenting plan says about this subject. I really hope that you're able to get somewhere with this issue because I know it's hard to have them away and to have worries on top of it has to be difficult.

Transportation: (BLAH about who picks up and drops off.) Any person transporting the children may not be under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and must be a licensed, insured driver. All child restraint and seat-belt laws must be observed by the driver. Car seats should be exchanged when required.

Thankfully for me none of those things are an issue but it's in there just in case.
 

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