School buses. Want to know more! :)

I know school buses are statistically safer than cars. Any size bus?
I'm just trying to educate myself so I know exactly what that means.

So, for my 5-year-old...is he safer taking the bus to school or having me drive him in his FF Radian in our 2011 Odyssey? (There is no bus available this year as it's school of choice, so the question is theoretical). There was a local driver who drove drunk last year. And in high school one stopped on the tracks killing 7 kids around here.

And, as I've mentioned before, my 3-year-old will take a bus (the mini-kind) with a harness. (If I drove she'd be RF but it makes practical sense to take the free door to door bus).

The 5-year-old takes a mini-bus with seatbelts to his afterschool program. Am I to assume lap belts? And if it's lap belts, is that OK?

Just trying to get educated about buses...
Given I have no idea who these drivers are, just makes me wonder...

bnsnyde said:

So, for my 5-year-old...is he safer taking the bus to school or having me drive him in his FF Radian in our 2011 Odyssey? .

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I just took an online school bus CPST continuing educational unit, and they taught us that kids are 8 times safer in a bus than in a car. (Yikes!) Most injuries involving buses have to do with getting to the bus--crossing the street, stepping off the bus, etc. I was talking with a bus driver who described grabbing a kid by the back pack as someone zipped by the bus on the right in the bike lane in a motor cycle. So meet those buses and walk your little ones to them.

For an over 5, the big yellow school buses are the safest ground transportation in the US, I believe. Seat belts not necessary. The information on the smaller buses was less exact, and maybe someone can answer more specifically. But those big yellow buses are very safe.

I found the information on lap belts strange. They both told us that a NHTSA study found that lap belts may cause injury while not increasing good outcomes and then they also said that lap belts may be of use in terms of ejection in a crash. I was kind of unclear on which one it was. But lap belts are required on buses in NY. At least lap belts are useful for installing seats for littler kids, right?

I do not believe lap belts on a mini bus is a good idea. You would want to install a seat on that.

I'll be keeping an eye on your thread. Thanks for asking this!

bnsnyde said:

There was a local driver who drove drunk last year. And in high school one stopped on the tracks killing 7 kids around here.

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And this is what makes me really uncomfortable about sending my kids on the bus. I don't know this person and I'd never allow someone I did not know to drive them in a car and what do I know about this school bus driver who would drive them everyday to and from school?

KaiLing said:

I found the information on lap belts strange. They both told us that a NHTSA study found that lap belts may cause injury while not increasing good outcomes and then they also said that lap belts may be of use in terms of ejection in a crash. I was kind of unclear on which one it was. But lap belts are required on buses in NY. At least lap belts are useful for installing seats for littler kids, right?

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There's pros and cons to lap-only belts on buses. In a frontal crash with a small rider (top of head below the top of the seat), they are safer without the belt. The whole body moves forward at the same speed, then the knees impact the seatback, then the whole upper torso at about the same time. In a lap belt, the body jacknifes, the head impacts first and kind of snaps the neck back. Also, if the lap belt fit is poor, there's seatbelt syndrome to consider.

In a frontal crash with a tall rider (top of head above the top of the seat), they are safer with the lap belt because without it, the torso is stopped by the seatback but the head isn't, putting all that strain on the neck. With the lap belt, the same thing happens with the neck snapping back as described above, but that's the lesser evil with the taller rider.

In a side impact or rollover, compartmentalization as we know it doesn't really work, and everyone is safer with a lap belt.

So for most kids on buses, it's a pick-your-crash-type kind of thing. If you could pick your crash, then you could restrain the child optimally.

Athena said:

I'll be keeping an eye on your thread. Thanks for asking this!



And this is what makes me really uncomfortable about sending my kids on the bus. I don't know this person and I'd never allow someone I did not know to drive them in a car and what do I know about this school bus driver who would drive them everyday to and from school?

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In most states I believe school bus drivers go through additional training, drug testing, background test, etc. Not exactly the same as asking a random neighbor or even a random parent to drive your child.

KaiLing said:

. At least lap belts are useful for installing seats for littler kids, right?

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When you say for littler kids- how little are you talking? I just found out my daughter's bus only has lap belts. Originally they told me they had seatbelts and we could leave a booster seat for her to use and now I found out they have lap belts only. My daughter is 6 and 50 pounds and I do not feel comfortable with her only being in a lap belt! What kind of seat could you use on a bus w/ lap belt only?

If the seat belts and bus seats meet the applicable FMVSS guidelines, you can install just about any harnessed car seat on a bus w/ lap only belts. There are other harness options for buses as well, such as the STAR (like a Safety 1st/ SafeGuard GO for the bus).

Well the daycare thought they were doing good apparently by installing lap belts on the bus. They said that because of the size of the bus they don't even have to have those, so they feel like they are meeting regulations. I need to find out if they meet the applicable FMVSS guidelines. However, they did not know that you could not use a booster seat w/ only a lap belt and let parents bring their own if they want to use them. I don't think anyone else is at this point so it hasn't come up that this is a problem until me. Since I never have dealt w'/ lap belt only I didn't realize that you couldn't use them with lap belts until I came here and started researching and asking questions so I am really glad I did! I actually went to my hubby's car and looked at our booster and saw that it said very clearly DO NOT USE W/ LAP BELT ONLY, so I would have caught it when I got it to put in the bus. However, it concerns me that the daycare does not know this and would allow parents to do this. The manager that I talked to has 2 kids of her own and one is in second grade so she should know this too. She said she didn't and that she thought all of the other daycares around are using boosters in their buses w/ lap belts and I told her that it was dangerous. She said she was going to check and see what they were doing. I told her that maybe they are using regular harnessed carseats and that is what I am going to try to do. Now to find a good inexpensive option! The Star is pretty expensive so I might as well get a carseat. I saw this as well and it is less than the STAR. I'm going to read more about it as well: http://www.easywaysafetyservices.com/gpage13.html

Unfortunately I think lots of day care providers and people in charge of the transportation of younger children don't know that boosters are for shoulder belts. You're doing the world a service every time you remind someone in charge that there are no boosters with lap belts! All of this stuff is relatively new, remember, and if there's not someone in charge of child passenger safety at the school it's possible these changes slip through the cracks. At my middle school the same teachers are driving the vans now that were driving me 20 years ago! They're smart caring people but if it's not on their radar it just ends up that parents have to keep them updated.

I wish I could figure out where to print out some of this information. The no lap belts w/ boosters is on the seats as well as the manuals, I know, but I would like to find something official that says it is for all boosters! I am now on the hunt for a carseat to put on the bus.

pinkgirlmommy said:

I wish I could figure out where to print out some of this information.

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Here's a good place to start for buses: http://www.nhtsa.gov/School-Buses

And here's safekids on boosters (not exactly what you're looking for, but a good page): http://www.safekids.org/safety-basics/big-kids/on-the-way/booster-seat-and-seat-belts.html

pinkgirlmommy said:

I wish I could figure out where to print out some of this information. The no lap belts w/ boosters is on the seats as well as the manuals, I know, but I would like to find something official that says it is for all boosters! I am now on the hunt for a carseat to put on the bus.

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If you really don't feel comfortable having her use just the lap belt on the bus then I would recommend an option made specifically for school buses rather than a conventional higher-weight harnessed carseat. School buses have "issues" such as no tether anchors to reduce head excursion in a crash, limited pitch space between seatbacks and really long buckle stalks that usually place the metal latchplate right in the area of the kid's lower back.

Something like the Besi over the shoulder harness would probably be a better option in a bus that already has lap belts for a child who doesn't have any special transportation health needs. However, it might have to be placed in the last row of seats on the bus if it has rules about how the child seated in the seat behind it has to be secured (and many of these restraints have rules about that).

http://www.besi-inc.com/securements/over-the-shoulder

There are lots of other bus-specific child restraints on the market too but that one seemed like a good candidate for your situation. HTH!

Athena said:

I'll be keeping an eye on your thread. Thanks for asking this!



And this is what makes me really uncomfortable about sending my kids on the bus. I don't know this person and I'd never allow someone I did not know to drive them in a car and what do I know about this school bus driver who would drive them everyday to and from school?

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This makes me sad, because I am a school bus driver, and we had to go through background checks, and drug and alcohol testing, and such. I know that I actually care though, and its pretty crapy that other people dont.

AgwasStars2 said:

This makes me sad, because I am a school bus driver, and we had to go through background checks, and drug and alcohol testing, and such. I know that I actually care though, and its pretty crapy that other people dont.

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I understand you were commenting on the unfortunate incidents that were discussed, but I just wanted to say that I hope my comment did not come off as hurtful. I hope you understand that it is hard for me as a mom to hand my kids off to a driver I don't know, even if they are more likely to be safer. Hopefully I'll get the chance to meet our driver and hopefully she/he will be a caring individual such as yourself.

AgwasStars2 said:

This makes me sad, because I am a school bus driver, and we had to go through background checks, and drug and alcohol testing, and such. I know that I actually care though, and its pretty crapy that other people dont.

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P.S. I love your siggy pic! I want that sticker for my car. Too bad my toddler is no longer a toddler and won't be ERF much longer. The wave part really makes it for me.

I didn't take it personally at all, it just really made me sad bc I don't understand why people would become bus drivers only to do stupid stuff like that. I just dont get it!!