carseat on small plane?

fyrfightermomma · Aug 6, 2011

My girls are flying in 2 weeks with FIL. He has a 4 seater Cessna. It's for Es bday so like a 30 min flight for fun. It's an older plane. Probably mid 80s

2 years ago FUL installed their two seats, a comfortsport and old generations.

Both girls have outgrown the seats which means I have to somehow find time to fanagle my seats in.

But it got me thinking....I never fly and never will so I'm clueless. At what age do they not use a seat on a plane anymore? E is boostered full time so I can't imagine if I really flew with her I'd be dragging along a seat would I??

So my question is when can they ride in just the belt? Also...all I have a a GN and frontier. I highly doubt they would fit side by side back there. What then?

An Aurora · Aug 6, 2011

What belt system does he have back there?

In one plane we frequently use, there are 4-pt harnesses in the back seat. I use a booster for M in there, as I can adjust the harness to fit her. S rides in a harnessed seat.

The other plane has regular 3-pt harnesses and M is boostered in there too.

I'm not comfortable with lap belts and likely won't be for years.

Posted by a robot and susceptible to unrelated and potentially inappropriate AutoCorrects.

unityco · Aug 6, 2011

Airlines don't *require* the use of a child seat for children, so technically, at the age of 2 when they're no longer considered an infant, they can use the lapbelt.

Anything requiring a shoulder belt (i.e. all boosters) are not allowed on commercial aircraft, so once your child is booster-sized, they wouldn't use a seat on the plane.

Interestingly (scarily) we just came back on a flight where a woman lied about the age of her child to make her older (over the age of two; the airline we were on has a policy that only one child under two can fly per adult passenger.) She was travelling alone with TWO children under two. The flight attendant caught the lie (and asked for proof of the child's age) because her older child (but still under 2 child) was so tiny she was concerned about her sitting alone in the airplane seat. She was almost removed from the flight, but a kind stranger offered to hold her daughter for her. Probably if she'd brought the older child a carseat to use on board, no one would have thought twice. :shrug-shoulders:

fyrfightermomma · Aug 6, 2011

An Aurora said:
What belt system does he have back there?

In one plane we frequently use, there are 4-pt harnesses in the back seat. I use a booster for M in there, as I can adjust the harness to fit her. S rides in a harnessed seat.

The other plane has regular 3-pt harnesses and M is boostered in there too.

I'm not comfortable with lap belts and likely won't be for years.

Posted by a robot and susceptible to unrelated and potentially inappropriate AutoCorrects.

Lap belts only

An Aurora · Aug 6, 2011

unityco said:
Airlines don't *require* the use of a child seat for children, so technically, at the age of 2 when they're no longer considered an infant, they can use the lapbelt.

Anything requiring a shoulder belt (i.e. all boosters) are not allowed on commercial aircraft, so once your child is booster-sized, they wouldn't use a seat on the plane...

She's speaking of general aviation here.

Fyr, I would see if the Frontier and GN would fit.

fyrfightermomma · Aug 6, 2011

An Aurora said:
She's speaking of general aviation here.

Fyr, I would see if the Frontier and GN would fit.

I guess my issue is, the plane isn't near us. I won't get to try until that day. And if they don't fit....then what? Just let the biggest kid go in a lap belt? I honestly don't even know what is considered safe in a plane lol. I never ever fly. E actually outgrew the GN so the Frontier is it. The other grandkids are all tiny and fit in the two seats my FIL already has (they are 8,6,and 4)

What about big planes? At what age/size do kids start riding without seats?

unityco · Aug 6, 2011

fyrfightermomma said:
What about big planes? At what age/size do kids start riding without seats?

Two.

fyrfightermomma · Aug 6, 2011

unityco said:
Two.

Oops. I should rephrase that LOL. What age do us car seat nerds put kids in planes without seats?

An Aurora · Aug 7, 2011

I stop putting my kids in seats on commercial airplanes when they are ~4. Last time we flew, the 3 year old was harnessed and the 5yo was in a lap belt.

General aviation is a totally different beast. They are small, they are less aerodynamic, they are flown by less experienced pilots with less hours (generally speaking, of course; many GA pilots are super-experienced commercial pilots on their day off), they are less controlled (ie takeoffs and landings are not under air traffic control guidance, and in some smaller airports they are not even required to radio their intent to takeoff/land), and they are all around just more prone to crashes. You simply cannot compare the safety of large airplanes and private, small aircraft. It's like buses, sort of. We all agree that riding in a bus without a seat is totally acceptable and safe, yet that same kid riding unrestrained in a Honda Accord would be completely different.

ETA: and the biggest thing for me is, car seats can make a difference on small plane crashes, whereas if a commercial jet goes down, there's nothing you can do.

unityco · Aug 7, 2011

fyrfightermomma said:
Oops. I should rephrase that LOL. What age do us car seat nerds put kids in planes without seats?

Lol, well, we did a trip with DS without a carseat when he was three, but he was/is a giant (well over 40lbs then,) so maybe not the best yardstick.

. (And just from a comfort standpoint, it was a wash for him... but we're talking a 4-hour late evening flight, not a 30 minute sightseeing tour.

)

Generally, if he was using a harnessed seat, we flew with it (so until 5 for us.)

rachelandtyke · Aug 7, 2011

An Aurora said:
I stop putting my kids in seats on commercial airplanes when they are ~4. Last time we flew, the 3 year old was harnessed and the 5yo was in a lap belt.

General aviation is a totally different beast. They are small, they are less aerodynamic, they are flown by less experienced pilots with less hours (generally speaking, of course; many GA pilots are super-experienced commercial pilots on their day off), they are less controlled (ie takeoffs and landings are not under air traffic control guidance, and in some smaller airports they are not even required to radio their intent to takeoff/land), and they are all around just more prone to crashes. You simply cannot compare the safety of large airplanes and private, small aircraft. It's like buses, sort of. We all agree that riding in a bus without a seat is totally acceptable and safe, yet that same kid riding unrestrained in a Honda Accord would be completely different.

ETA: and the biggest thing for me is, car seats can make a difference on small plane crashes, whereas if a commercial jet goes down, there's nothing you can do.

This was my initial reaction to the question. On a commercial airline, DD has been in the lapbelt since age 4, and I have no qualms about it. She is still harnessed in the car, although could be boostered if I wanted to try it. But on a small plane, I'd be much more inclined to use a harnessed seat.

fyrfightermomma · Aug 7, 2011

Thanks guys! That helps alot.

I'll try to fit the Frontier back there since that's all she fits in. If not, well I'm not sure what to do. I highly doubt it will fit back there with any other seat

Shes 39.9 lbs at the hospital but probably lost some since she wasn't fed for 4ish days. She is over the top slots of the Generations but I *know* those fit back there and SIL has three of them. We've fit them side by side before. S of course is 41 lbs

Since crash dynamics of a plane are nothing like crash dynamics of a car....is putting a child under the weight limit of a seat, but above the harness slots an issue in a plane? Or is it the same as a car? Or is just plain old restraint more important. I'd guess E is probably an inch or so over the slot of the Generations. S probably still fits height wise in the Generations, but of course is 1 pound over. All 3 of her girls still fit by height and weight.

They are the old Generations and are usually what FIL uses (that or the CS they have...but I don't think anyone fits in there anymore). I hate to make life difficult for him since he installs them ahead of time. If it's okay for the girls to just ride in them, I'll let them. But if it's set in stone like a car....I'll have to figure something out

An Aurora · Aug 7, 2011

fyrfightermomma said:
Since crash dynamics of a plane are nothing like crash dynamics of a car....is putting a child under the weight limit of a seat, but above the harness slots an issue in a plane? Or is it the same as a car? Or is just plain old restraint more important.

Honestly I can't answer that. I have no idea about the physics of either crashes. I will venture to guess that spinal compression would be more of an issue in a plane crash than in a car crash, but again I have no idea. I'm sure just being restrained is a huge plus in terms of safety, but at some point it might make a different being over the top slots.

LISmama810 · Aug 7, 2011

rachelandtyke said:
This was my initial reaction to the question. On a commercial airline, DD has been in the lapbelt since age 4, and I have no qualms about it. She is still harnessed in the car, although could be boostered if I wanted to try it. But on a small plane, I'd be much more inclined to use a harnessed seat.

Those are my thoughts, too. Well, actually, my kids wouldn't be on a small plane because I have, uh, a phobia. But in theory, I'd place much more importance on having them harnessed in a small plane than a large commercial one.

fyrfightermomma said:
Since crash dynamics of a plane are nothing like crash dynamics of a car....is putting a child under the weight limit of a seat, but above the harness slots an issue in a plane? Or is it the same as a car? Or is just plain old restraint more important.

Depending on the incident, I would think the dynamics would be very similar to a car crash, especially in a small plane.

If my only options were a lap belt or a seat that was slightly outgrown, I suppose I'd go with the slightly outgrown one (on a plane). I'd see if the other seats work though (which I realize you can't do until the day of).

An Aurora · Aug 7, 2011

I agree, an outgrown seat would likely be better than nothing, but I'd really try to get a seat in there that she fits in.

My concern about the spinal thing is that plane crashes have that downward force instead of a forward- or rear impact. I have been through a few bone-jarring landings

due to wind.

rachelandtyke · Aug 7, 2011

LISmama810 said:
Those are my thoughts, too. Well, actually, my kids wouldn't be on a small plane because I have, uh, a phobia. But in theory, I'd place much more importance on having them harnessed in a small plane than a large commercial one.

Glad I'm not the only one!

I've finally gotten used to the idea of having lunch at the small downtown airport and watching the little planes take off and land. I told them it would be a long time before mommy would be brave enough for them to go flying with DH's cousin.

An Aurora · Aug 8, 2011

Oh I hate them too. Hate hate hate them. And go figure that's the one thing DH is super passionate about.

I still won't get in a helicopter

fyrfightermomma · Aug 8, 2011

I went in it exactly one time. All the way up, I freaked out, and FIL landed right away lol. I would never ever do a helicopter. Funny enough, my passion has always been to be a flight for life nurse. I just wish you could do it without the copter part!!!!

I don't fly. Ever. Nor will I ever. But my goal has always been that my children won't have a fear of flying because it's always hindered me. So far, they love it and I think they will grow up with the same passion for flying that DH and his dad have. I married into the wrong family!

skipspin · Aug 8, 2011

Well, I've had a Wizard in the back of a 4 seat Cessna, so I would guess that a Nauti would fit as long as it wasn't on the highest setting.

If they are just barely over the limits of the Generations (slighlty over slots, ~1 lb over the weight) I probably wouldn't sweat it if it was the best option. It's WAY better than a lap belt.

Most survivable small plane crashes/incidences take place when taking off or landing- and those dynamics would be closer to a car crash. It's also statistically less likley than a car crash.

Thankfully most of the small planes we have occasion to ride in (My DH is Director of Maint. for a General Aviation Shop) have airbags and 4 pt harnesses all around- so I can use a booster so the harness fits on bigger kids and call it a day and regular harnessed seats for littles. I recommend the RN a lot to his customers because it fits in the 2 pt, 3 pt, and 4 pt seatbelts. The CCO is great for RFing since it has an open beltpath which is necessary for a 4 pt belt and RFing.

*ETA: I would be more likely to take a seat on a small GA plane (lap belt only) for a child normally not harnessed than I would on a commercial flight. They are much more likely than a commercial plane to encounter turbulence or have minor "crashes" on take off and landing. This is due to both the pilot (airline pilots have to have LOTS of hours) and the size difference. Also, you don't have to lug a seat suring connections on a private flight.

fyrfightermomma · Aug 11, 2011

skipspin said:
Well, I've had a Wizard in the back of a 4 seat Cessna, so I would guess that a Nauti would fit as long as it wasn't on the highest setting.

If they are just barely over the limits of the Generations (slighlty over slots, ~1 lb over the weight) I probably wouldn't sweat it if it was the best option. It's WAY better than a lap belt.

Most survivable small plane crashes/incidences take place when taking off or landing- and those dynamics would be closer to a car crash. It's also statistically less likley than a car crash.

Thankfully most of the small planes we have occasion to ride in (My DH is Director of Maint. for a General Aviation Shop) have airbags and 4 pt harnesses all around- so I can use a booster so the harness fits on bigger kids and call it a day and regular harnessed seats for littles. I recommend the RN a lot to his customers because it fits in the 2 pt, 3 pt, and 4 pt seatbelts. The CCO is great for RFing since it has an open beltpath which is necessary for a 4 pt belt and RFing.

*ETA: I would be more likely to take a seat on a small GA plane (lap belt only) for a child normally not harnessed than I would on a commercial flight. They are much more likely than a commercial plane to encounter turbulence or have minor "crashes" on take off and landing. This is due to both the pilot (airline pilots have to have LOTS of hours) and the size difference. Also, you don't have to lug a seat suring connections on a private flight.

Yeah she's on the top setting of the GN and pretty much top of the Frontier...so not sure those would fit then. Darn. I have a radian which would work for S but I'm not sure E fits anymore. I guess if my option is a slightly outgrown Generations or a lap belt...I may have to go with the generations if nothing else I have fits. I did forget I had a prosport which we never use, but again, shes at the top setting so i doubt that would fit either. So annoying

ETA: Wait, can't you be over in the Radian? Those install well in 2 point belts back there? I could do that...one Radian and then the generations for Sophia if E can be over the top slots in that

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