Regarding selling used seats come January 1st, 2012

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I just saw someone mention in another seat planning to sell a seat once it was outgrown rf'ing by their child, and I know this is pretty common practice around here.

As most of you probably know, as of January 1, 2012, manufacturers will have to comply with the updated CMVSS 213, 213.1, and 213.2 standards. Once this compliance date hits, stores will not be allowed to sell any seats which don't meet new standards, and this will apply to individuals who want to re-sell their seats down the road.

I want to emphasize that the seats you currently own and use are perfectly safe to keep using until they expire, you just won't be able to sell them after January 1st.

There was some confusion about whether old seats would be allowed to be sold when I had written the post about changes to standards last fall, but I have seen the memo from Health Canada that was sent out to retailers and manufacturers, so I'm able to confirm the truth of it at this point. It will fall in to the same category as baby walkers and old cribs which don't meet the current safety requirements. Granted enforcement is going to be difficult when it comes to private sales, but it's something to be aware of anyways if you're planning to buy a seat and re-sell it in a year's time.

(The memo stated it was ok to distribute to other parties with interest in the field of child safety, so I'm not violating any confidentiality by posting these comments here.)

Edited November 8: Further in the thread there is confirmation that it will be illegal (against the hazardous products act,) to sell, lend, or give away any seat which does not comply to the new standards come January 1st, 2012. Wording from the Health Canada website is in this post: http://www.car-seat.org/showpost.php?p=2026909&postcount=92.
 
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Mingie

CPST Instructor
Interesting. I planned to sell my MR when dd2 maxed out the height in it rfing. I am wondering though if it complies already and I won't have to worry about it. I need to pull out my manual.

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Keeanh

Well-known member
Is there a list anywhere of pre-2012 seats that comply? Or is there something on the sticker to indicate "2012" compliance?
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Is there a list anywhere of pre-2012 seats that comply? Or is there something on the sticker to indicate "2012" compliance?

I don't know the answer to this one unfortunately. I know there are easy ways to see the non-compliant seats, and that if/when replacement models show up with changed designs, we'll know the previous ones were non-compliant...

I don't know if something will be marked or not though. I had heard rumor of one manufacturer putting it on their boxes, but I don't think that's happened yet...
 

tiggercat

New member
snowbird25ca said:
I don't know the answer to this one unfortunately. I know there are easy ways to see the non-compliant seats, and that if/when replacement models show up with changed designs, we'll know the previous ones were non-compliant...

I don't know if something will be marked or not though. I had heard rumor of one manufacturer putting it on their boxes, but I don't think that's happened yet...

My apr 2011 radian says on the box that it meets the new standards.
 

selinajean

New member
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention the other day Trudy! I haven't even checked my MR to see if it is compliant but I'm happy with the choice to upgrade now instead of later.
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
Guess I have to get off my butt and sell my two My Rides. Although I know the My Ride has the new wording for FF (22# and walking unassisted is it?), but I don't know if it meets the rest.

Also, I definitely won't be buying my infant seat until the new compliant seats are out as I will be selling it once I'm done with it and rather it be a compliant seat for ease of sale. Now, here's to hoping that Graco's infant seats are compliant now or if not, will be out by November as I really should have my seat by about mid November!
 

Brianna

New member
Although I know the My Ride has the new wording for FF (22# and walking unassisted is it?), but I don't know if it meets the rest.

Somewhat irrelevant because I'm in the US, but I'm still curious, does it still have a 1 year minimum? Because J was over 22# and walking unassisted at 8 months :eek:
 

canmom

New member
I'm confused :eek:. I understand what your saying but I struggle with it because I know people sell old vehicles that don't meet current Canadian regulations (lap-shoulder belts is just one thing I can think of). Is this purely because CRS are children's products? Please elighten me :confused:.
 

TechnoGranola

Forum Ambassador
Somewhat irrelevant because I'm in the US, but I'm still curious, does it still have a 1 year minimum? Because J was over 22# and walking unassisted at 8 months :eek:
I'm not at home so can't look at my manual, and they don't seem to have it online. But Transport Canada says 22# and walking unassisted and I don't believe there is any mention of age. That being said, the Transport Canada web page also specifies that just because your child meets these minimums that it's safer to keep them RF.

A manufacturer can also add in additional criteria, like 1 year of age or 34" height minimum, etc. but I believe it's mandatory that they at least state "22# and walking unassisted". There are also provincial laws that may define an age which, even if a manual doesn't state the age, you'd need to follow the provincial law.

And I might be remembering all of this incorrectly, so hoping Trudy reads my post and corrects me where I'm wrong or fills in some of the blanks that I am sure I missed.

But ya, I can't answer your specific question about the My Ride manual until I'm home to look at it later. Kind of irks me that Elfe doesn't have it online for Canadians. What if someone loses their manual? or is out and about and doesn't have access to their paper copy but needs an answer to something? (like me, right now?! :ROTFLMAO:)
 

Panonim

New member
Oh I'm glad I read this thread! So to make sure I understand correctly - any of the seats we are currently using (which are 3-4 years old) cannot be sold after Jan 1, 2012. Right? If I wanted to sell them, I'd need to do it before then.

And the seats that are currently being sold in stores may or may not be compliant to the new standards? So like someone else had said, they want to wait and buy a seat that is compliant so she can re-sell it later.

And the other thread about the Britax sale at Snugglebugz..... so the sale models are likely not compliant, which is why they're being cleared out, right? And the new B-Safe, since it's just being introduced now, likely IS compliant.

Can someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding this? We need a new infant seat before December but want to sell it after we are done, so I will definitely want to buy one that is compliant and can be re-sold.
 

Emi's Mommy

New member
Somewhat irrelevant because I'm in the US, but I'm still curious, does it still have a 1 year minimum? Because J was over 22# and walking unassisted at 8 months :eek:
I have a DOM 06/2010 MR and it says at least one year, 22 pounds and walking unassisted for FFing. They have the and capitalized so I guess they are trying to drive home the point that just because your 8 month old is 22 pounds and can walk, it's still not good enough for the bare minimum.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'm confused :eek:. I understand what your saying but I struggle with it because I know people sell old vehicles that don't meet current Canadian regulations (lap-shoulder belts is just one thing I can think of). Is this purely because CRS are children's products? Please elighten me :confused:.

Toni, I really can't explain it all. On June 20, 2011, the Canada Consumer Product Safety Act came in to force. The regulations replaced the current Hazardous products (Child Restraint Systems) Regulations. (quoting from the letter.) What it specifically says is that the regulation (new Canada Consumer Product Safety Act,) prevents the import, sale, and advertising in Canada of child and infant restraint systems and booster seats that were certified to a prior version of the RSSR after the conclusion of any transitional provision and after the effective date.

I don't see any exceptions to private sales in the letter - now, I am pretty sure that there is nobody in Health Canada able to enforce individuals selling seats - and it's further complicated that we won't know who does and doesn't meet new standards...

But this is how I interpret things anyways. I'll double check on it though since it never hurts to get a second opinion...
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Just an update, the response I got was definitely retail, but is going to double check on personal sales. So I'll keep you guys posted. It's possible I read too much in to it with it being such a general statement - or it's possible that they will recognize they couldn't even begin to enforce it, so we'll see what comes of it...
 

selinajean

New member
Just an update, the response I got was definitely retail, but is going to double check on personal sales. So I'll keep you guys posted. It's possible I read too much in to it with it being such a general statement - or it's possible that they will recognize they couldn't even begin to enforce it, so we'll see what comes of it...

Thanks Trudy! I personally hope that they do apply the rule to personal sales too. If we get these old seats off the market, maybe just maybe, it will make it easier for the provinces to upgrade their laws in the near future. (Wishful thinking, I know.)

Now, if they do apply the law to personal re-sales we will need a complete list of all seats and which manufacture date started to comply with the new standards.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Thanks Trudy! I personally hope that they do apply the rule to personal sales too. If we get these old seats off the market, maybe just maybe, it will make it easier for the provinces to upgrade their laws in the near future. (Wishful thinking, I know.)

Now, if they do apply the law to personal re-sales we will need a complete list of all seats and which manufacture date started to comply with the new standards.

This is going to be the issue really.

My biggest concern if they continue to allow current seats to be re-sold is that there will be people who specifically go looking for a used seat just so they can have a 20lb minimum ff'ing limit. Theoretically this could actually increase the buying and selling of expired seats too, and could mean that people are buying seats that really aren't safe to be using, just in the interest of ff'ing 2 pounds earlier. I know that sounds pessimistic, but I also am pretty sure that there's a reason why manufacturers waited until the last possible minute to raise limits to 22lbs from 20lbs... and I'm pretty sure it's sales related...
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
This is going to be the issue really.

My biggest concern if they continue to allow current seats to be re-sold is that there will be people who specifically go looking for a used seat just so they can have a 20lb minimum ff'ing limit. Theoretically this could actually increase the buying and selling of expired seats too, and could mean that people are buying seats that really aren't safe to be using, just in the interest of ff'ing 2 pounds earlier. I know that sounds pessimistic, but I also am pretty sure that there's a reason why manufacturers waited until the last possible minute to raise limits to 22lbs from 20lbs... and I'm pretty sure it's sales related...

Meh, I think people who are gonna FF at 20lbs and use expired seats will have no qualms about FF at 20lbs in a 22lb seat. I don't know which seats FF at 20lbs. I find it hard to believe people who don't give a crap are going to research that. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of kids FF at 19lbs just because they're 1yr, regardless of what the sticker says. I would much rather see private sales left alone. As long as a seat isn't expired, it should be okay to change owners. The 20lb seats will expire soon enough.
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
Meh, I think people who are gonna FF at 20lbs and use expired seats will have no qualms about FF at 20lbs in a 22lb seat. I don't know which seats FF at 20lbs. I find it hard to believe people who don't give a crap are going to research that. I'm sure we've all seen plenty of kids FF at 19lbs just because they're 1yr, regardless of what the sticker says. I would much rather see private sales left alone. As long as a seat isn't expired, it should be okay to change owners. The 20lb seats will expire soon enough.

You know, I live in a different environment here than what a lot of areas of BC are like, and it's rare to see kids turned ff'ing before meeting the weight limit on a seat to ff, and parents do shop by weight limit, especially when they have a light kid. It's not a matter of knowing what seat has what limit - it's a matter of them looking at the different weight limits when shopping. I've seen it enough times helping customers to know that it truly does make a difference.

Knowing how used seats are often cared for - or not cared for as the case may be... usually no manuals, unknown history of if it's been in a collision or not, in most cases, taking away all of the current seats from being able to be resold would be a very good thing overall. Granted it also means people who do have well cared for seats face limitations... but I'm guessing for every good and safe seat with all the parts and manual present out there, there's another 10 to 15 that are expired or otherwise not the safest to be using...
 

canadiangie

New member
I'm going to have a basement full of 'dangerous goods' I guess.

Or, I'll be forced to keep using my same seats, and not buy new ones? :eek:

Good lawd this sucks. :p
 

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