Most incompatible seats?

PKung

CPS Technician
I work for a car manufacturer and am trying to put together a small collection of seats to find as many install problems with the car as possible.

What seats would you recommend?

For example, what restraints are the worst for:
LATCH access
Forward of the bite seatbelts
Long buckle stalks
Needing head rests removed
Needing lots of space to tighten the top tether
Boosters with poor hand access to buckle seatbelts
etc.

And what other issues, related to the car itself, should I be looking for?

I realize this is kind of a weird perspective; I'm trying to find incompatibilities so that I can change the car, not change the seat.

So far, I've got my personal Radians (lots of good incompatibilities), an old Marathon (which is too easy to be very useful), and a smuggled-in European Britax infant base with foot prop and anti-rebound bar. What else?

Thanks for your suggestions!
 
ADS

jnamommy

New member
Not sure if this helps or not, but the headrests in dh's tahoe have to be moved (they do not remove compeltely, they fold backwards) in order to install ds's Nautilus.
 

Lea_Ontario

Well-known member
Radians, especially with a seatbelt installation, are horrible for most everything you posted.

Maxi Cosi Mico is an infant seat that is among the more difficult to install.

I'm sure there are others.
 

momtoo3

Well-known member
The Britax Frontier 85 did not install well in our 2010 Malibu or 2004 F150 Crew Cab with the seatbelt or LATCH. I could install it with LATCH and the long belt path in my van but it was a pain. That is the only seat I have had problems with in multiple vehicles.
 

Pixels

New member
Let me start by saying that I love whoever you are working for. It's great that the manufacturers are taking a serious look at this.

I was unable to install a RFing Coccoro with forward of the bight (FOTB) seat belts. It would be tight side to side but when checked front to back, the side with the FOTB anchor pulled forward easily.

Evenflo's SureLATCH connector (on the Symphony and I think maybe one or two other convertibles) can be finicky, both if the lower anchors are too buried or if they are too exposed/high up. Evenflo tether adjusters are also pretty bulky and difficult to get through the loops that many trucks use for anchors. Evenflo also has short tether straps.

The BabyTrend infant seat base can be difficult with long belt stalks.

The Peg Perego infant seat base is so difficult with a seatbelt in any vehicle that the manufacturer highly recommends using LATCH whenever it's available. I don't have first-hand experience with the seat so I don't know what its problem is.

A booster that has straight sides like the Turbobooster will be tight for buckling, especially in three across.

As for other vehicle design problems to watch out for:

Side bolsters eat up room, especially when you're talking about three across. Stiff bolsters are horrible, but if they are pretty squishy then they aren't too bad. Along the same vein, moving the seat belt anchors as far outboard as possible helps leave room for three across. A hump in the seat is bad if it's dome shaped. Everything tips, especially boosters. Contours that are like cutouts can be problematic, where you have to try to find a seat that fits in the cut out area. Basically, the smoother the seat, the better.

The seat bottom angle should be neither too flat (causes RFing seats to over recline) nor too steep (causes FFing seats to be too reclined).

The space available for rear facing seats is frequently a limiting factor, doubly so for tall parents who want the front seat all the way back and also have a tall baby which means they get a tall seat.

Seat belt buckle stalks that are on webbing are able to be twisted to lower the buckle for harnessed seats when necessary. Buckles that are on cables cannot be twisted, so I don't like to see those.
 

christineka

New member
Stiff buckle stalks are great for boosters, though. It would be nice to have stiff buckle stalk casings that are easily removable. Also tether anchors in all locations! Seat backs that are curved can take up space. (My civic is a lot wider than I can actually fit car seats due to that curve.) Buckle buckles can get in the way of a good install.

Otherwise, what pixels said.
 

ctbcleveland

Well-known member
So far, I've got my personal Radians (lots of good incompatibilities), an old Marathon (which is too easy to be very useful), and a smuggled-in European Britax infant base with foot prop and anti-rebound bar. What else?

Ohhh...we love you already....a person who smuggles in cool seats :D

If there are seats you don't have access to (because they are discontinued or hard to find) - you local safe kids coalition might be willing to loan you some. My coalition has an entire trailer full. There are several detroit-area techs on this site too that probably can help you to connect with the right people.

I've had a hard time with the Frontier and one of the infant seats with the anti-rebound bar. I think it was the Britax Companion. Probably similar to what you've got already.

Kudos to you and your employer for wanting to address these issues!
 

chay

New member
Lots of good stuff above.

My biggest complaints would be
1. huge side bolsters which I'm sure are great for passengers in side impacts make 3 across impossible. The two sets of LATCH on DH's car put two outboard cars seats about 7" apart. Seat belt installs aren't any better because the seats are so sloped and contoured you can't get them to spread out.
2. LATCH anchors high up the back of the seat (usually in cars with sloped back seats). So the seat slopes down super far and the seat bight ends up being 4-5" up from the bottom of the dip. Usually results in the buckle being on the edge of the belt path and often incompatible with many seats (not just slim Radians either).
3. Front to back room. I'm always surprised at how little room some bigger cars actually have.
4. Number of top tethers. It blows my mind that some car manufacturers even bother selling minivans that don't have top tethers in all positions. Many of the SUVs 3rd rows don't have anything either. Then again I'm in Canada where top tethering is mandatory for all forward facing seats and we can't booster until 40lbs which my kids probably won't hit until at least 6-7 so it's a lot of years for me.
5. Forward of the bight seat belts but you already knew that one.

I think it's great that someone is actually factoring this into the design!!!!
 

scoutingbear

New member
Something that I ran into in dh's car with the LATCH is that the seatbelt anchors are in the exact same spot. It made it so I could install the clippy LATCH like the GN in there, but not an alligator clip like the Britax.

Another seat that I have had a lot of trouble with is the CCO.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
Pixels covered the majority of issues we see. The only other design issues I can think of at the moment are:

exposed hinges for seat folding mechanisms (they limit placement options for 3 across and make many infant seat installations incompatible.)

Seat belts that crisscross each other or that cross the lower anchors in a way that makes it impossible to install a seat belted seat next to a LATCHed seat.

The other real hot button issue is the weight limits for LATCH, especially the top tether component if it. Very few manufacturers give clear guidance and allow for the fact that high weight harness seats need tether use.
 

Stelvis

New member
I would really love it if LATCH weight limits were clearly stated in car manuals. Also RF tether anchor points. Also it would be nice to have 3 across LATCH in more cars because many people use center LATCH when they're not allowed.

In my car (2007 Acura RDX) the Radian Superlatch was incompatible with the placement of the LATCH anchors because it caused the tilt-lock mechanism to be right at the belt path and allowed the webbing to loosen very, very easily. But it wasn't immediately obvious that this was a problem upon installation. I blame this more on the Radian than on the car though.

I can't get any seat I've owned in the middle of my dad's Malibu (07 or 08?) because of the huge hump. Although it has really nice center LATCH anchors.
 

Carrie_R

Ambassador - CPS Technician
I might add that the Graco Nautilus is difficult if not impossible with rigid forward-of-bight buckles (in harnessed mode.)

Thank you to you and your company!
 

MomToGupCPST

Senior Community Member
I would like to add that we often have to figure out who has to go untethered FFing in vans because they only offer 3 top tether anchors. In a vehicle aimed directly at families, why is it so car seat UNfriendly?
 

teekadog

Active member
This is probably the last 20 minutes in the heat I just spent struggling with a Regent in my 3rd row speaking- I'll save you the profanities- but I find a Regent WITH recline bar to be a bear to install. And I agree the Frontier85 is not a piece of cake either in all vehicles.

Thanks for looking into this. With soon-to-be 4 kids in car seats, compatibility is one of the first things I look for in a new car.
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
The other real hot button issue is the weight limits for LATCH, especially the top tether component if it. Very few manufacturers give clear guidance and allow for the fact that high weight harness seats need tether use.

:yeahthat:

You can find a seat that will work for almost any vehicle/child combination. They may not always be our favorite seats, but there are seats that will work. I'm fine with using the seatbelt to install, not having additional lower anchors isn't a deal breaker by any means.

What we need is to be able to use the top tether anchor to 85 lbs (current highest weight limit of mainstream harnessed seats), and for the manufacturers to clearly state that we can. So, tether anchors for all rear seating positions that can be used through the lifespan of the seat, please. And bonus points if your vehicle manual clearly states the limits, and expounds on the benefit of forward facing tethering.
 

Keeanh

Well-known member
Again, not quite what you asked, but I would love to see tether anchors for front passenger seats and airbags on key switches. Oh, and captains chairs with the headrest all in one unit (like the pic) are awful for top tether installs.
140.jpg
 

mamakc

Active member
on the topic of center LATCH, it would be cool if the latch bars were color coded. The passenger side set being green and the drivers side set being blue so that maybe the person trying to install w/ LATCH in the center would see the different colors and think, hmm, I wonder why they are different, maybe I should check the manual! :)
 

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