Question Conflicting Advice from Car Seat Techs (wrt RF seat touching front seats)

B

billcat901

Guest
First time posting here, though I have read a lot of posts in the three years since I became pregnant with my daughter. I hope I'm posting to the right area.

Our RF Radian 80 touches the back of the front seats in our new Subaru Outback '11.

My understanding when I was researching this (before buying the car) was that it was all right for the car seat to touch the back of the front seats if all of the following held true (and they do, in my case):
  • The carseat manual does not advise against it.
  • The car manual does not advise against it (in the air bag section, seat belt section, or the child restraint section).
  • The position of the carseat against the back of the front seats does not affect the recline or stability of the carseat.

Furthermore, my understanding is that the reason some carseats should not touch the back of the front seats in some cars is that some cars' weight sensors for the pressure of airbag deployment can be confused by the weight of the carseat pressing against the back of the seat.

I asked my SIL, who had car seat installation training for her job (RN in a neonatal ward), to look over the install (as we always do). She said it looked and felt like a good install. Then my husband asked her about the back of the seat touching the back of the front seats. I told her that the manuals didn't say anything against it.

She called the next day because she had asked one of her colleagues about it. He said that it doesn't matter if the manuals don't have warnings, rearfacing carseats should never touch the back of the front seats - no matter what. His reasoning had nothing to do with the air bags; his concern was that the force of the front passenger(s) against the car seat would be dangerous for the car seat occupant. :confused:

This is mainly my car, and I can probably manage driving it without the seats touching, but my husband is 6'4" and there is no way he can be in the front of the car without the seats touching.

My main question is: When someone receives conflicting advice from car seat techs (I am assuming he is a car seat tech), is there any authority one can consult for a reliable answer? Is there a printed guide or book that is used in the training of car seat techs? Or anything that I can read, watch, person I can ask that can tell me without a doubt that he is mistaken (if he is)?

My secondary (and more technical) question is: Does the scenario I described above sound correct? Again, it's a Radian 80, RFing in a Subaru Outback '11; the back of the carseat touches the back of the front seat(s). The seat is very stable and tight without touching the back of the seats, but the seats have to touch in order for my husband to be in the car.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
 
ADS

Ninetales

New member
I just got certified as a tech yesterday and the only thing my instructors said regarding the seats was "read the manual for the seat and the car". And that you can't use the front to make it tighter or change the angle.

It sounds like he is giving his personal opinion, not official information. I'd have to check my training manual again to be sure.

Does your car have a sensor-activated airbag?
 

Pixels

New member
First time posting here, though I have read a lot of posts in the three years since I became pregnant with my daughter. I hope I'm posting to the right area.

Our RF Radian 80 touches the back of the front seats in our new Subaru Outback '11.

My understanding when I was researching this (before buying the car) was that it was all right for the car seat to touch the back of the front seats if all of the following held true (and they do, in my case):
  • The carseat manual does not advise against it.
  • The car manual does not advise against it (in the air bag section, seat belt section, or the child restraint section).
  • The position of the carseat against the back of the front seats does not affect the recline or stability of the carseat.
The first two are correct. The third is not a requirement. You can use bracing to push the Radian more upright, as long as the carseat remains fully in contact with the bottom cushion of the vehicle seat.
Furthermore, my understanding is that the reason some carseats should not touch the back of the front seats in some cars is that some cars' weight sensors for the pressure of airbag deployment can be confused by the weight of the carseat pressing against the back of the seat.
Exactly right.
I asked my SIL, who had car seat installation training for her job (RN in a neonatal ward), to look over the install (as we always do). She said it looked and felt like a good install. Then my husband asked her about the back of the seat touching the back of the front seats. I told her that the manuals didn't say anything against it.

She called the next day because she had asked one of her colleagues about it. He said that it doesn't matter if the manuals don't have warnings, rearfacing carseats should never touch the back of the front seats - no matter what. His reasoning had nothing to do with the air bags; his concern was that the force of the front passenger(s) against the car seat would be dangerous for the car seat occupant. :confused:
Transport Canada testing found that it's far safer for the car seat to be in contact with the front vehicle seat before the crash, than to impact it during the crash.
This is mainly my car, and I can probably manage driving it without the seats touching, but my husband is 6'4" and there is no way he can be in the front of the car without the seats touching.

My main question is: When someone receives conflicting advice from car seat techs (I am assuming he is a car seat tech), is there any authority one can consult for a reliable answer? Is there a printed guide or book that is used in the training of car seat techs? Or anything that I can read, watch, person I can ask that can tell me without a doubt that he is mistaken (if he is)?
Here is the link to the technician manual: http://www.cpsboard.org/pdf/techmanual/StudentManual_R1010_Complete_WebQuality.pdf I can summarize 95% of it in three words: Read The Manuals.

Ask him to back up his statement with references. A good technician will be able to support their advice.
My secondary (and more technical) question is: Does the scenario I described above sound correct? Again, it's a Radian 80, RFing in a Subaru Outback '11; the back of the carseat touches the back of the front seat(s). The seat is very stable and tight without touching the back of the seats, but the seats have to touch in order for my husband to be in the car.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
Yes, the way you have your seat installed sounds fine to me.
 

murphydog77

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
My main question is: When someone receives conflicting advice from car seat techs (I am assuming he is a car seat tech), is there any authority one can consult for a reliable answer? Is there a printed guide or book that is used in the training of car seat techs? Or anything that I can read, watch, person I can ask that can tell me without a doubt that he is mistaken (if he is)?

My secondary (and more technical) question is: Does the scenario I described above sound correct? Again, it's a Radian 80, RFing in a Subaru Outback '11; the back of the carseat touches the back of the front seat(s). The seat is very stable and tight without touching the back of the seats, but the seats have to touch in order for my husband to be in the car.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!

:love: Welcome! You are on your way to carseat geekdom! Sorry, but when someone researches something so thoroughly, it's a sign, lol.

I agree that this sounds like an opinion. If there's nothing written in either the vehicle manual or the carseat manual, there's no warning against having a carseat touch the vehicle seat. We can't just pull this stuff out of the air.

It sounds a bit like the person advising your SIL is thinking that frontal airbags launch the passengers rearward. They only go off in a frontal crash (sensors are in the front bumper) and everything will be moving toward the point of impact. So, the airbags inflate in a split second then rapidly deflate--they don't stay inflated like a balloon. It will absorb the force of the person hitting it just in time before it deflates. Hopefully that person is wearing a seatbelt too! There will be some rebound of the passenger back into the seat, but it's minor compared to the forward motion (weight x speed).

Here's a video I found quickly that shows what I'm talking about re: the airbag deployment:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jJOIo24f8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jJOIo24f8[/ame]
 

scariestone

New member
My recommendation is to read the air bag part of your car manual very carefully. I drive a 2011 forester and I had to read that section several times before making the conclusion that having a car seat touching the back of the seat was a bad idea. You can brace on the driver's side but for the passenger's side it says don't let backseat passengers push on the seat and don't have anything heavy resting on the seatback (paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact words). It doesn't say anything specifically about car seats but I took that to mean no touching. You manual may be different but since its the same car manufacturer I would bet its similar or the same.
 

swtgi1982

New member
You can use bracing to push the Radian more upright, as long as the carseat remains fully in contact with the bottom cushion of the vehicle seat.Exactly right.Transport Canada testing found that it's far safer for the car seat to be in contact with the front vehicle seat before the crash, than to impact it during the crash.

Yep, the radian allows it so long as your vehicle does. Just watch out for the air bag sensors on the passenger side. Even with smart airbags normally driver side is allowed but not passenger.

If it was so unsafe for seats to be braced like this rear facing they would not have been doing so in Sweden years ago against the front dash! (pre air bags obviously)

My kids use their radians in my dads truck without air bags in the front passenger seat RF touching the dash barely but not braced.
 

Pixels

New member
If it was so unsafe for seats to be braced like this rear facing they would not have been doing so in Sweden years ago against the front dash! (pre air bags obviously)

They still put kids in front in Sweden, they have airbag off switches.

Even with an airbag off switch, if you can get your kids in back, put them there. The back seat is still 35% safer than front. Of course, with no airbag off switch, rear facing in the front is NOT an option.
 

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