Radian SL

smileybrea · Jun 26, 2011

I'm sorry..I know this has been discussed a bazillion times but it was before I had one so I didn't really pay much attention to specifics

..I've been searching and searching and searching and can't find the thread

XTSL: DOM 11/10 so I'm assuming this is the older one that was/is causing problems? Anyone have pictures of the 2 different LATCH straps so I can look or know what I should look for? LATCH install just works better in my car because I have super long belt stocks and even twisting 3 times, I couldn't get it tight enough plus locking latchplates and ELR means twisting the belt 1/2 turn...just a PITB. The LATCH loosened with a little force, less than I'd like but more than what I've seen on the videos.

TIA!

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

As far as I know, there are no changes that have guaranteed it will not loosen. The "new" one also loosened in my car. Check out my video in my signature for what a "new" SL mechanism looks like. People have had issues with 2011 DOMs as much as 2009.

Pixels · Jun 26, 2011

FWIW, most 2009 DOMs are not SL seats, and don't have the loosening problem. Only seats with DOM in/after September 2009 are SL.

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

Yes, that's true. Mine was a 12/09 DOM but the strap was 11/09.

Carrie_R · Jun 26, 2011

If you opt to install with LATCH, just be very, very, very diligent about checking for movement. I installed on a Thursday late morning, checked a number of times that day and all was fine, used it again on Fri (didn't check,) went to take it out Sat morning and it was loose. The biggest problem, IMO, with the SL thing is that it *appears* to install fine, but loosens over time. I would check the tightness (by actually looking at the location of the LATCH adjuster itself) EVERY time you put a child into the seat.

The retrofitted LATCH straps have some sort of wire retainer clip in them that is supposed to reduce (ok, supposed to eliminate) the instance of SL slipping. Supposedly all seats leaving the warehouse now have the new strap, but the late '10 ones I just received did not.

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

Yep, check it constantly. The retainer clip is supposed to be on everything since 2/11. And it has worked for some, but not me and not others. Since they're still claiming they can't duplicate the problem, I'm not sure how they can claim that their magic wire fixes the problem.

smileybrea · Jun 26, 2011

Stelvis said:
Check out my video in my signature for what a "new" SL mechanism looks like.

That's the one I was looking for! Thanks! I've been checking every time I put him in and it hasn't loosened. When I first installed it, I tried to release it and it took a bit of force but not as much as I'd like. Re-installed it and have checked it every time I've put him in. It remained tight and was still tight last night but the LATCH released VERY easily. I'll call them..mine definitely doesn't have that bar thing. In the meantimes, I'll try a locking clip

luckymommy0219 · Jun 26, 2011

I can't see your signature from my phone. Is there another way I could see the video?

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

smileybrea said:
That's the one I was looking for! Thanks! I've been checking every time I put him in and it hasn't loosened. When I first installed it, I tried to release it and it took a bit of force but not as much as I'd like. Re-installed it and have checked it every time I've put him in. It remained tight and was still tight last night but the LATCH released VERY easily. I'll call them..mine definitely doesn't have that bar thing. In the meantimes, I'll try a locking clip

Here's the video for those that can't see signatures: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULM7Ahmui74"]YouTube - ‪Radian Superlatch Failure Retainer Clip.m4v‬‏[/ame]

Just a reminder that if yours is loosening to also report to NHTSA: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Brigala · Jun 26, 2011

smileybrea said:
In the meantimes, I'll try a locking clip

Would that be safe? I thought you couldn't use a locking clip on a lap-only belt. How would a latch strap be different?

Although I still don't fully understand why a locking clip on a lap belt is dangerous. I've had trouble with lap belts slipping and loosening over time just like the SL does.

Jessica61624 · Jun 26, 2011

Brigala said:
Would that be safe? I thought you couldn't use a locking clip on a lap-only belt. How would a latch strap be different?

Although I still don't fully understand why a locking clip on a lap belt is dangerous. I've had trouble with lap belts slipping and loosening over time just like the SL does.

It's not safe. That's what people were told to do from skjp. They were also told to use duct tape.

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

I think (hope) based on the eyerolly guy that she was joking. And yes, Russ did tell someone to use a locking clip, and he did tell me to use duct tape, and neither one is safe. I forget the technical explanation as to why not but several techs have explained it before in various threads on this issue.

Pixels · Jun 26, 2011

The belt needs to be securely locked throughout a crash. A locking clip is just a pre-crash positioner that has the potential to slip or come off during the crash. On a lap/shoulder belt, that's fine, because by then the retractor on the shoulder belt has locked and taken over. On a lap-only belt or a LATCH belt, there is no backup. If the locking mechanism at the latchplate isn't working properly, a locking clip will only disguise the problem. If the LC slips, then there is nothing to keep the belt from lengthening all the way.

rodentranger · Jun 26, 2011

Has anyone gotten an explanation as to how exactly that wire is going to help?

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

http://www.skjp.com/en-US/news_detail.php?cat=press&cid=16946

Their explanation is that it somehow changes the angle internally so that it can't loosen easily. However as you'll see the letter also states that it was impossible for it to happen to begin with and that anyone who had the problem didn't install it correctly.

Which, obviously, isn't true, since it's happened to so many techs. The whole thing is really sketchy.

Stelvis · Jun 26, 2011

Pixels said:
The belt needs to be securely locked throughout a crash. A locking clip is just a pre-crash positioner that has the potential to slip or come off during the crash. On a lap/shoulder belt, that's fine, because by then the retractor on the shoulder belt has locked and taken over. On a lap-only belt or a LATCH belt, there is no backup. If the locking mechanism at the latchplate isn't working properly, a locking clip will only disguise the problem. If the LC slips, then there is nothing to keep the belt from lengthening all the way.

Thanks!

Brigala · Jun 26, 2011

Ok, that makes sense, then.

Someone needs to invent something that would be safe and effective to use on a lap belt, though, for all the many lap belts out there which SUCK at staying tight around a car seat. I honestly think that the SL issue is pretty much the same thing as a slipping lap belt. The same belt might work fine on a different vehicle seat or a different child restraint, but some combinations just don't work and they loosen up badly. If there were something you could add to the belt (whether the lap belt or a SL strap) that would safely keep the belt tight in those situations, you'd be able to solve the problem. The fact that people DO put locking clips on lap belts (or Latch straps!!) just proves that there's a need for such a product.

I'm just wishing here, of course. I know nothing like that exists.

InternationalMama · Jun 26, 2011

Brigala said:
Someone needs to invent something that would be safe and effective to use on a lap belt

They already have. It's called a belt-shortening clip.

ETA: Just to clarify, I'm not recommending that anyone try using a BSC on a Radian latch strap! Just letting the PP know that there is something similar to what she describes.

safeinthecar · Jun 26, 2011

InternationalMama said:
They already have. It's called a belt-shortening clip.

A belt shortening clip does not fix a Lap belt with a slipping latchplate. The BSC takes up the excess webbing, but it does not change the angle of the latchplate in any way. When a latchplate locks, a moving piece actually slides up into a position to hold the belt tightly. When that piece is slide down (not locked) there is a bigger space in the channel the webbing is running though and the webbing slides easily. The end of the webbing is folded over and sewn so that it is too thick to pass through the open latchplate. If you were to take up all the slack with a BSC so that the latchplate was at the very end of the webbing, you may get a superficially tight install, but in a crash you'd be gambling on that stitched end not ripping out or compressing and leaving the seat completely uninstalled.

InternationalMama · Jun 26, 2011

safeinthecar said:
A belt shortening clip does not fix a Lap belt with a slipping latchplate. The BSC takes up the excess webbing, but it does not change the angle of the latchplate in any way. When a latchplate locks, a moving piece actually slides up into a position to hold the belt tightly. When that piece is slide down (not locked) there is a bigger space in the channel the webbing is running though and the webbing slides easily. The end of the webbing is folded over and sewn so that it is too thick to pass through the open latchplate. If you were to take up all the slack with a BSC so that the latchplate was at the very end of the webbing, you may get a superficially tight install, but in a crash you'd be gambling on that stitched end not ripping out or compressing and leaving the seat completely uninstalled.

So you can't use a BSC on a lap belt that has a latchplate even if the latch plate is not keeping the belt tight? (Of course, it seems I can't imagine it would ever really come up as the only fix, but I'm just curious.) I see what you're saying about the webbing on the other side of the latchplate, but if that's a gamble to assume the stitching won't rip out then isn't all seatbelt use a gamble since many seat belts rely on stitching in some area?

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