Forcing Kids in Car Seats...

Sooo there is a discussion on another board about how it's "abusive" and "neglectful" to keep a kid restraint in a car seat if they dont like it. It's about how this child detests riding in the car, screams, makes it unbearable, anndd the mom admits that the child is never properly restrained at all because the baby keeps moving down the chest clip among other things. Sorry if we can't bring in other discussions, i promise i won't name names or anything. Basically i ended up skimming it because i just couldn't take the constant defensiveness and justification about using "cages" to restrain children. Anywhoo.. my questions....

Is there a point in time where your kids hated being in a seat?

What did you do about it?

How long did it last? Is it still an issue?

Did it self resolve, did you help it along?

My DD at a point in time hated being RFing and car rides were just buckets of fun, but i never once thought about how i was abusing her and ignoring her needs by making her stay harnessed, so this viewpoint is really new to me and i'm really trying to grasp it. Not defending it, but I do try to understand everyones opinion and I just really have a hard time agreeing with this one.

What the heck do you say to a parent who believes that making a kid CIO in the backseat of a car is abuse and they're clearly upset that there is a law that is "forcing" them to parent their child and they're bitter and defensive? Just give up and realize nothing will change their mind? I'm really trying to learn from this perspective so I can figure out a way to convince parents that it's really an issue of safety and not 'meaningless tortue' to put a kid through on an off chance that they'll be involved in a car crash.

Obviously i know this is a pro car seat board (duuuhhh ) but some of the opinions on the other board just absolutely floored me so i'm looking for some advice. I can't believe there are people defending this behavior, but I really know i'm anal about car seat safety so I realize there is a clear bias on my end.

To me, the bottom line is that safety comes first. I'm more concerned with saving their lives than keeping them happy. I'm no more likely to let my kids get away with screwing with their seats and getting out of them than I am to let them play in the street just because they want to.

Mikayla did unbuckle herself a lot last year, and at the advice of friends, I turned the buckle around backwards. In retrospect, I should have called Cosco to get permission first. But it did work - it was a bit more of a pain for others, but I could do it okay, and Mikayla absolutely couldn't unbuckle on her own. Before, I was having to stop several times a day to get her back into her seat. And it wasn't because she hated the seat - just because she wanted to sit on the 3rd row, or because she was just I guess being a mischievious little kid for a while there! Actually, that was 2 yrs ago, now. She was 3-3.5.
Now, yes, for almost a year, she's been able to do her own buckle but understands that she has to be buckled at all times so it's not a problem. I don't know how long it would have lasted if I hadn't flipped the buckle, or what I would have done if I'd called Cosco and they said no.

That thread made me develop a nervous tic and I had to back out of it so I wouldn't say anything that would get me banned. *twitch*

1. Both my kids went through seat-hating phases around 3-6 months
2. I cried, grimaced, played music, tried windows up, tried windows down, tried singing, tried silence, limited car trips. Not a damn thing helped
3. Lasted a few months. They both outgrew it.
4. See above.


As someone on that thread said, the poster has a severe case of 'yesbutitis'

ThreeBeans said:

That thread made me develop a nervous tic and I had to back out of it so I wouldn't say anything that would get me banned. *twitch*

1. Both my kids went through seat-hating phases around 3-6 months
2. I cried, grimaced, played music, tried windows up, tried windows down, tried singing, tried silence, limited car trips. Not a damn thing helped
3. Lasted a few months. They both outgrew it.
4. See above.


As someone on that thread said, the poster has a severe case of 'yesbutitis'

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Lets not forget that people should stop and not call the police when they see an unrestrained child being held on a parents lap in the car b/c we dont' know their entire situation and it's not "black and white" It sure as is to me!!!! You pull over, fix what you need to fix, and get back on the road. Not that hard of a concept, i think

Tell them to get out their horse and wagon and they will not need a carseat.

definitely a stage they all go through, so mine has been through it.
I wrestled him in to the seat with my elbow resting on the shell at the crotchstrap and my hand against his sternum(good thing I have long forarms lol!). I wasnt hurting him, just holding him in place so I could strap him in. Its not like there was an option, he HAS to ride in a seat whether he likes it or not... its only for the best...
It lasted a few months and self resolved. In the car wasnt the only place we were having issues, so it wasnt that he hated his seat. I think he hated to restraint and boundaries and was trying to test them, ect...

To me, the bottom line is that safety comes first. I'm more concerned with saving their lives than keeping them happy. I'm no more likely to let my kids get away with screwing with their seats and getting out of them than I am to let them play in the street just because they want to.

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:yeahthat:


Cias hated the car seat for a long time, and there were times when it would have just been easier to take him out, but I love him too much to put his life at risk like that. yes we were both miserable, but that's just the way it has to be sometimes..

DD went through it and still does sometimes. But it's something you can't compromise on. It's not like letting them have junk food or stay up late...it could kill them. They don't know better, but I DO. So they ride in car seats every. single. time.
It was pretty bad about 9 months when DD couldn't see me. Then when she started walking she didn't want to be confined. I just had to put her in calmly. When DH drove I sat in the back with her. She got over it. It lasted about a month.

I think sometimes parents forget that they are the parents! I am all for giving children choices on small things, but never on safety.

MissMommy928 said:

Sooo there is a discussion on another board about how it's "abusive" and "neglectful" to keep a kid restraint in a car seat if they dont like it.

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I guess it's also "abusive" and "neglectful" to make your child do *anything* that is in their best interest when they don't want to do it then

I think all kids have phases where they throw tantrums over certain things - but they're just testing us as parents. If we always give in, what kind of message does that send them? Be a brat and you'll just get whatever you want? I don't think that's really all that beneficial...

I had a couple of babies who, as VERY young infants, did not do well riding in cars. Screaming in a high-pitched panicky shriek, to the point of projectile vomiting. I suppose I should have just held them in my lap and breastfed them as I drove, to ensure that they were happy, well-adjusted (however dead) children.

How dare we impede a child from exploring their environment by telling them not to play with a hot stove!

Dd went through this stage at around 4'ish months? We pulled over repeatedly to calm her down and make sure she was ok, and when it became obvious she just wanted company, I crawled into the back with her and dh drove.

When I was by myself, I'd talk to her. At red lights reach back and stroke her hand (if I could reach it,) and just remind myself that she wasn't alone and wasn't being ignored.

Crying in a carseat when a loving parent is there reassuring a child and physically nearby - even if it's only verbal reassurance, is completely different than leaving a child to CIO because it's bedtime or naptime. :twocents:

I obviously don't know which board you're talking about, but do these parents feel the same way about Ferber - any variation of it? Do they put their baby down and go to the bathroom when they have to go even if it means their baby is crying? Or would they rather wet themselves. I know so many parents talk of how it's ok for a kid to be upset sometimes because mom/dad needs to meet their own needs too. We personally don't do anything remotely similar to allowing our kids to cry on their own, but being in a car seat is simply not the same thing.

Heck, for that matter - since statistically most parents vaccinate, there's a good likelihood she probably vaccinates her child - is it abuse for her to hold her child down while somebody else pokes him and causes him to cry? And then allow repeated pokes after he's already upset?

Ugh... people can makes excuses for anything, and trying to label forcing a kid to stay in their car seat as abuse is nothing more than trying to put a label so that it makes it sound like the parent is trying to protect the child, when really it's something that the parent simply doesn't want to deal with. If you don't want to hear your child cry in your car seat, then either don't drive, or else go with someone else so you can sit beside your child in the back.

This is one of those things that irks me... how many times I've read how a parent turns their kid ff'ing because the distraction to the driver from the screaming is more likely to cause an accident that could injure the child than the risk of them being ff'ing. Some people just don't get it - not because they haven't been educated, but because they don't *want* to get it.

I guess I'm pretty opinionated too... but despite how hard it was for me to listen to dd cry when we were in the car, I never thought of it as harming her. It was more of an "I'm sorry you're upset sweetie, but this'll keep you safe and we're almost there. Mommy can't get you right now." kind of thing. And that's not neglect. Never has been and never will be. :twocents:

One of my mom's friends actually put her baby's infant carrier in the front seat next to her (buckled) in what was probably an air bagged seat b/c he cried and screamed so much she was in several fender benders. She said she just couldn't focus. I understood a little I guess, I mean, if you're just goint to keep crashing with him in the back...On the other hand, if she'd just stuck it out for a little bit he might've grown out of it quick enough.

My son freaked out any time he couldn't see me, which included being in his car seat. I stopped all the time to take him out and hold him for a few minutes and nurse him. I also completely avoided driving during the evening when he was colicky unless I could sit in the back with him. I am vehemently against CIO, but to me, its still abuse to not restrain him and knowingly willingly put him in harm's way. So I tried to make the best of the situation. He grew out of it quickly, less than month I believe.

My ds has never had a big issue with riding in his carseat. I do sometimes have to coax him in with a cookie, but once we are moving, he is fine. I feel the same way as the majority of you...I let Brayden make some decisions, but never give on anything safety related (that seems more neglectful to me). JMO, I would rather have a mad child than a severely injured or dead one!

KAK22 said:

I think sometimes parents forget that they are the parents! I am all for giving children choices on small things, but never on safety.

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:thumbsup: AMEN!
its our job as parents to make sure that our kids actually live to be adults!

i was at the gas station and a mom was in there telling the attendent that she didnt always put her baby (probably about 3-6 months) in the carrier b/c baby cried the whole time, the attendent told her that she didnt care if the baby was crying, it was safer to be in the seat and that if she didnt buckle baby in when she got to the car, she would call the cops on her, i was totally impressed that she was so bold b/c it can definatly be hard to inform people about all the safety stuff with seats and all

i came across this yesterday and some of the stuff this guy wrote just irritated me, he talks about forcing a 7yo into a seat they outgrew as a toddler, well obviously if they outgew the seat then its not one they would be sitting in, they would (minimaly of course) be in a booster seat with no back (or course a regent would be better ) which doenst cost much. he also doesnt mention exactly what the new law says but if its extending the use of car seats till age 8 it probably is meaning booster seats, not HWH seats. the guy probably has no kids, no knowledge of car seat safety and is just trying to stir up trouble

just a note, i think backless boosters are worthless till like your child has otgrown their regent and everything else and still isnt ready for a regular seat belt but i'm assuming that a backless would be enought to be within the guidelines of the law and you can get them for like next to nothing so his complaint about cost is kinda lost.

here is the link to his article and a excert from it


http://shinbone.home.att.net/strap.htm

On February 21st, a new Pennsylvania state law took effect, which mandates the use of child car seats for all children under the age of eight. Signed last year by outgoing Republican Governor Mark Schweiker, the bill is tremendously inconsiderate of the people who will now have to abide by it. But then, when the safety of The Children is at stake, who has time to waste by considering the ramifications of his actions?


Previously, the law required child safety car seats only for children under the age of four. Doubling the age requirement has caused many complications, none of which seems to have been taken into consideration by the since-departed Gov. Schweiker, or by the state legislature. For starters, no seven year-old is going to go quietly back to a car seat he thinks he outgrew when he was a toddler. So what are parents to do, physically force their flailing, screaming children into the seats, in full view of a parking lot full of people who might report them to the spanking police?

hope my post makes sense as its late and i'm tired

amyg530 said:

i came across this yesterday and some of the stuff this guy wrote just irritated me, he talks about forcing a 7yo into a seat they outgrew as a toddler, well obviously if they outgew the seat then its not one they would be sitting in, they would (minimaly of course) be in a booster seat with no back (or course a regent would be better ) which doenst cost much. he also doesnt mention exactly what the new law says but if its extending the use of car seats till age 8 it probably is meaning booster seats, not HWH seats. the guy probably has no kids, no knowledge of car seat safety and is just trying to stir up trouble

just a note, i think backless boosters are worthless till like your child has otgrown their regent and everything else and still isnt ready for a regular seat belt but i'm assuming that a backless would be enought to be within the guidelines of the law and you can get them for like next to nothing so his complaint about cost is kinda lost.

here is the link to his article and a excert from it


http://shinbone.home.att.net/strap.htm

On February 21st, a new Pennsylvania state law took effect, which mandates the use of child car seats for all children under the age of eight. Signed last year by outgoing Republican Governor Mark Schweiker, the bill is tremendously inconsiderate of the people who will now have to abide by it. But then, when the safety of The Children is at stake, who has time to waste by considering the ramifications of his actions?


Previously, the law required child safety car seats only for children under the age of four. Doubling the age requirement has caused many complications, none of which seems to have been taken into consideration by the since-departed Gov. Schweiker, or by the state legislature. For starters, no seven year-old is going to go quietly back to a car seat he thinks he outgrew when he was a toddler. So what are parents to do, physically force their flailing, screaming children into the seats, in full view of a parking lot full of people who might report them to the spanking police?

hope my post makes sense as its late and i'm tired

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I didn't read the whole article, but from the section you quoted I *kind of* get what he's saying about kids not wanting to go back to a baby car-seat. I could see that a kid who has never been in a booster and got out of his car seat on his 4th b-day could see a booster as being a baby seat. And I'm sure some parents might have difficulties putting their 7.75 yr olds back in boosters without a great deal of conflict.

Doesn't mean that it's a bad idea, which is where I obviously disagree with him... but I do see how some kids could really fight it. And he really didn't have to be so melodramatic about it, I mean really - it's for the kids own safety. But I imagine it can be a difficult transition when kids all the sudden get put back in boosters. Once they get past the idea I'm sure the kids are more comfy, but I think that's besides the point.

Now - if that law had been around in the 1st place or parents were educated on the importance of boosters, it wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Like I said, melodramatic of him... Hopefully he was just venting or mad about some other thing because he certainly comes off as misinformed and unconcerned about child safety. :thumbsdown:

littleangelfire said:

One of my mom's friends actually put her baby's infant carrier in the front seat next to her (buckled) in what was probably an air bagged seat b/c he cried and screamed so much she was in several fender benders. She said she just couldn't focus. I understood a little I guess, I mean, if you're just goint to keep crashing with him in the back...On the other hand, if she'd just stuck it out for a little bit he might've grown out of it quick enough.

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Wow! Just wow! The sad thing is, that there was probably something wrong with the little tike that could've been as simple as him being uncomfy in the infant carrier and moving him to a rf'ing convertible would've fixed the problem. And I have to wonder how on earth you can have multiple fender benders from a crying baby... I've driven with screaming kids & it's definitely harder to concentrate, but if it was interfering with my ability to drive, you better believe I would be pulling over or else not going anywhere until the stage passed. And you better believe that I'd be looking for a solution after the 1st accident.

Sometimes I think that people just do what ever seems easiest to them & instead of looking for a practical solution, they try a quick-fix without thought to safety. Those who turn babies ff'ing for this reason definitely fall into that category for me.

snowbird25ca said:

And I have to wonder how on earth you can have multiple fender benders from a crying baby... I've driven with screaming kids & it's definitely harder to concentrate, but if it was interfering with my ability to drive, you better believe I would be pulling over or else not going anywhere until the stage passed. And you better believe that I'd be looking for a solution after the 1st accident.

Sometimes I think that people just do what ever seems easiest to them & instead of looking for a practical solution, they try a quick-fix without thought to safety. Those who turn babies ff'ing for this reason definitely fall into that category for me.

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This lady just isn't the hottest of drivers. She's been through lots of cars since her and my mom met 20 years ago. I haven't been in a car with her since I was kid, so I can't say exactly why she doesn't drive safe, but i think she drives too fast from what I've heard. And just generally tries to do half a dozen things at the same time. I love her, but driving is not her forte.

I have to admit to briefly considering turning my son ff when he was like 7=8 months old b/c I have a 2 door car and it was so hard to get him rf in the backseat. I figured out something though: it was actually easier for me to climb in behind the drivers seat (his seat was on the passenger side rear) and put him in his seat that way. I got some funny looks in parking lots for climbing back there, but it was easier. Actually, I still get funny looks! I have to step into the back seat on the passenger side to buckle my son still.

Let's see...I'm not really reading the thread but wanted to share my experience as a mom of ONE! BTW, breastfeeding caused a BIG GAP in my fertility and my child would have been over 4 by the time I had another if that was going to occur. Anyway...

I always feel that my child is communicating a NEED when he is upset/resisting/etc. And guess what? Going by that assumption, we have a great connection...for instance, often time it was because he needed to go to the bathroom. To this day, if he wants me to open the moon roof so he can play around, instead of getting in his seat so we can leave, that means he needs to pee. When he was an infant, it was nearly impossible to go anywhere without stopping frequently. So we tried to minimize any trips until he was older.

Anyway, all that stuff has turned out well. We understand each other and get along well with trips now. My needs were not well addressed at first...I had to learn what I needed in order to help myself deal with delays in going places or leaving places....lots of introspection and sharing as well as seeking understanding of my child's needs.

I did start packing a cooler whenever we went anywhere - along with fun things for me (tapes/books/etc) and extra clothes for myself and child depending on what season it was...

These really helped with my ability to get through the early years!