Safety 1st Newest post!!

Just posted on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/notes/safety-1st/complete-air-frequently-asked-questions/10150277379310219

1. Has the Complete air been tested at more upright angles?
Yes, we have tested the Complete Air up to 30-degrees rear facing and the child restraint passes crash testing at this angle. However, we feel the safest way to travel is at our recommended recline using the level-to-ground line.

2. Why is there a height limit on the Complete Air?
There is a height limit on the Complete Air and all other child restraints because the National Highway & Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) requires a weight and a height limit. The rear facing height limit of 40” on the Complete Air was determined based on testing results and test kinematics.

3. Can the Complete Air be installed more upright than 45 degrees?
The Complete Air child restraint instruction manual clearly defines proper installation using the level-to ground line engraved on the side of the shell. When the child restraint is level-to-ground, the BACK ANGLE forms a 45-degree angle.

4. Is the level-to-ground line at 45 degrees?
Yes, the level-to ground line reclines the child restraint to 45-degrees. Firstly, please ensure your vehicle is on level ground. If you are using a cell phone app to measure the level to ground, a good way to check is to measure the angle of the ground and match that angle to the level-to-ground-line molded on the shell. Once you achieve level-to-ground, the back of the child restraint will be at approximately 45 degrees, but please keep in mind that there are many variables in measuring the back. Finally, secure your child in his car seat and ensure that the level-to-ground line is still observed. If you have questions about the angle you are achieving, it is best to contact consumer relations at 800-544-1108 or a CPS Tech in your area.

5. Does the Complete Air have to be level to ground no matter the weight and age of the child? Per our instruction manual, when installing the Complete Air rear facing, the level to ground line must be observed.

6. Does the Complete Air pass crash tests when used in rear-facing position at normal (45-degree) installation angles?
The Complete Air, as well as all of our child restraints, undergoes vigorous testing at both our in-house testing facility as well as external testing facilities per NHTSA regulations. We crash test our seats to our recommended installations, including angles. We test beyond the standard both in severity of the crash and utilizing angles other than those we recommend. If the angles used in the installations approximate our recommendation, the seats will pass and exceed the requirements of the Child Restraint Standard, FMVSS213. We continually evaluate our restraints in many respects, including installation instructions. In the case of the Complete Air, we continue to recommend the rear-facing installation follow our instructions, which is to install utilizing the level to ground line, which will result in a back angle of approximately 45 degrees.

7. Is it safe for a child over 40 inches to use the car seat if their head is even or below the shell? After testing the Complete Air, we recommend that the child restraint cannot be used by children exceeding 40” in height. If your child is over 40” but still has clearance to the top of the headrest, please do not use the Complete Air to rear face your child. Once your child has reached 40 lbs or 40" or if the top of your child's head reaches the top of the headrest (any one of these criteria), please do not use the Complete Air rear facing. It can be used forward facing.

8. Do you use the line level embossed in the seat or the sticker?

The Complete Air has several stickers on either side of the shell to help aid in installation. We recommend you follow the level-to-ground line engraved in the shell, and not the line of the sticker.

Good news! Thank you!

I don't feel bad making the personal decision as a parent to install my seat at 40° now that I know that it passes testing.

They've also added a bunch of install pictures to their Facebook page as well.

I still can't get over their 40" rule that they juxtapose w/ the headrest clearance. It would take an incredibly tall-torsoed kid to be 40 inches tall and be 1 inch below the headrest. Anyone have a kid that's right at 40 inches but level with the headrest?

Raegansmom4 said:

Anyone have a kid that's right at 40 inches but level with the headrest?

Click to expand...

Nope, this is how much shell was above my son's head in the CA when he was 40 inches tall:

(I love this seat FF for him, so these guidelines aren't an issue for us though.)

The pictures they posted are a bit of a joke IMHO. One of those is my car. Nothing like not being able to use the passenger seat of one's car unless said passenger wants to be eating the dash and sitting up at a perfect 90 degree angle! Never mind the fact that my kid would never go for a 45 degree angle now anyway.

This photo is crazy from their album... that is a proper install according to S1 in a 2007 Highlander. Yeah, that's really going to work in real life.:thumbsdown:

Also... I don't understand how the pictures have nothing under the base but that is a "proper install" ? I've never installed a CA so I'm not familiar with the base... is there a flip out part I just can't see in the pictures or is the front of the seat really just all the way up in the air like that with no noodle underneath to acheive that recline?

I'm relieved to learn the seat passes at a more upright angle. I may go put my CA back in the van- rfing at a 30 or so degree angle. My ds is only 38 inches tall.

I'm also glad to hear it passes testing. But the fact that they are still so adamant about using the line makes me nervous. It seems like they have a reason for requiring something that is so unreasonable. I'm losing trust very quickly.

I have an Amazon gift card coming from Swagbucks. Unless something changes I'll be using it toward a Myride and maybe save the CA for FFing down the road.

I'm still confused about why they say it is safer at 45* if it supposedly passes testing at 30*??

emma41256 said:

Also... I don't understand how the pictures have nothing under the base but that is a "proper install" ? I've never installed a CA so I'm not familiar with the base... is there a flip out part I just can't see in the pictures or is the front of the seat really just all the way up in the air like that with no noodle underneath to acheive that recline?

Click to expand...

You can probably shove it into the backseat and use the backseat to hold that angle. That's what I do with baseless infant seats and it works well. But if I was a company putting that out as an official picture, I'd use noodles or a towel. Just for appearance's sake.

So what I read in there was, "We like 45º, it's safe upright. And as long as your child is under 40", 40 pounds, or their head is below the shell, it's safe to use rear facing." Same as most manufacturers (I think Britax states an overall height limit, seated height limit, weight limit, or 1"). So again, if a parent feels it's ok to use the seat above the stated height limit (as any seat) and long as the head is contained, I'd have no problem with that. And I would use it rear facing for my child who was 35 pounds, 42", had room above their head, and was installed at 33º. I'll continue to recommend it as one of my top five seats.

Wendy

I think DD was 42" or 43" here




She has a very long torso. She fit RF just fine at 40".

Posted by a robot and susceptible to unrelated and potentially inappropriate AutoCorrects.

If it passes at 30 degrees, I'd like to know why they recommend 45. Still doesn't make sense to me.

LISmama810 said:

If it passes at 30 degrees, I'd like to know why they recommend 45. Still doesn't make sense to me.

Click to expand...

Probably a CYA so people don't put their newborns (who don't fit in the seat anyway) in at 30 degrees.

Wendy

Here's another "correct" install from their album - note the front passenger seat.

emma41256 said:

Also... I don't understand how the pictures have nothing under the base but that is a "proper install" ? I've never installed a CA so I'm not familiar with the base... is there a flip out part I just can't see in the pictures or is the front of the seat really just all the way up in the air like that with no noodle underneath to acheive that recline?

Click to expand...

That's how I install my Complete Air, Scenera, Comfortsport. THe foot area is just shoved into the back of the vehicle seatback. I've never been successful at installing like that the way we typically show parents (just putting a hand in the seat), I have to stand behind the carseat and use my body to push it into the seatback.

I too am happy to hear it passed testing more upright.

If they are so insistent on a 45 degree angle they need to redesign with a recline foot or deferent shaped base. This is just ridiculous.

Isn't more upright safer. Don't children move into the seat more instead of ramping up as much?

Whatever. I'm just irritated. And the 40 inch thing is stupid too.

hrice said:

If they are so insistent on a 45 degree angle they need to redesign with a recline foot or deferent shaped base. This is just ridiculous.

Click to expand...

The Complete Air LX?

Wendy

wendytthomas said:

Probably a CYA so people don't put their newborns (who don't fit in the seat anyway) in at 30 degrees.

Wendy

Click to expand...

Well, right. It was mainly a rhetorical question. I guess I'm upset that it seems disingenuous and potentially dangerous to protect newborns (who won't fit) over older kids.

Until they convince me that older kids are SAFER at 45 degrees, I won't use the seat. Not because I think it's dangerous or because I don't want to "misuse" the seat, but because if they're not being honest about this, what else are they not being honest about?