What's my safest option? Mostly a vent...

zeo2ski · Jun 8, 2011

With the CA height clarification, I won't use it past 40". But... my 3 yo is only 34 lbs but 39" RF in a CA, but if I have to flip him in 1", he has to move to a seat with a TA...problem is there are 2 TAs in my pre-LATCH suburban, and one of those spots has a broken seat belt retractor of which the part is not available anywhere, and therefore I have ONE useable TA...and 2 children who will be FF harnessed.

So I have to skip a TT or booster my almost 5 y.o. Hmm. Or "share" a TA--this is not actually sharing one anchor, but here's the set up: the approved TA's are the rearmost cargo anchors behind the 3rd row, for each outboard seat (passenger is the broken seat belt one), but there is ALSO a "retrofit" strap that hooks to BOTH those anchors and then there's a ring in the center of the strap which you would use if you were tethering a seat in the center seating position of the 3rd row. The instructions from GM do not say whether you can or can not use the strap to tether a center seat WHILE ALSO tethering an outboard seat. So I defer to "no." I don't think I could get two FF seats next to each other back there anyway--2 radians do NOT fit FF, and they do not install properly anyway.

So I could:
-FF one boy in the 2nd row, using the 3rd row seat belt to tether
-try to find 2 seats that would fit side by side and "share" that back cargo hook
-Leave one FF child untethered
-booster DS1, who will be 5 in a couple months. He is very mature and 41 lbs. Never tried it though.

I'm leaning toward boostering DS1...what would you do?

HKP1042 · Jun 8, 2011

Aren't there a few carseats that were approved without using the top tether? Nautilus? Could you use one of those for the 5 year old?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought I read you could use the Nautilus without the top tether.

zeo2ski · Jun 8, 2011

In the US top tether usage isn't mandatory, legally. Nautilus does have very good HE numbers without the top tether.

J-max · Jun 8, 2011

What about putting one of the FF seats int eh center middle row and using the 3rd row center seat belt for the tether, and putting the other in the 3rd row position that can use the cargo hook as a TA? Would that work?

(I think I might even have one the the buckle things you are supposed to use for turning the 3rd row seatbelt into a TA floating around somewhere)

carseatcoach · Jun 8, 2011

HKP1042 said:
Aren't there a few carseats that were approved without using the top tether? Nautilus? Could you use one of those for the 5 year old?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought I read you could use the Nautilus without the top tether.

All US carseats (except the Safety 1st Go Hybrid; how'd that happen?) are approved without top tether use.

babyherder · Jun 8, 2011

Is there another rf seat that would work?

zeo2ski · Jun 11, 2011

Sorry multi quote doesn't work for me right now.

babyherder--I don't know, is there anything else that newly RF's past 35 lbs? I haven't been on here lately to keep up with what's new. Radian's don't work in my vehicle, and he outgrew (by height) the My Ride and BLVD 65 months ago. I would prefer to RF to at least 4, but I guess he's 3y2m right now and that's better than 1 or 2 I guess.

J-max said:
What about putting one of the FF seats int eh center middle row and using the 3rd row center seat belt for the tether, and putting the other in the 3rd row position that can use the cargo hook as a TA? Would that work?

(I think I might even have one the the buckle things you are supposed to use for turning the 3rd row seatbelt into a TA floating around somewhere)

Yes that would work--but I remember something about tethering to a seat belt not being preferable. For my particular suburban the retrofit was not the piece that buckles in like that, it was the strap for use in the 3rd row, so I'm not sure if using one of those buckle pieces would be allowed?? But if it is that'd be GREAT and it would even give me back my cargo area that the retrofit has taken over.

gsdguenter · Jun 11, 2011

The Momentum rf to 40 lbs. now

Edited: and the Symphony 65 e3

babyherder · Jun 11, 2011

3 years 2 months is awesome! Certainly safer than 1 or 2. You seemed like you weren't sure about turning him and it will cause you set up issues so my first thought was to keep him rf longer. I was thinking radian but if that doesn't work I think the evenflos mentioned by the pp could be all that's left. You've tried sk, britax, graco, and 1st first. Maybe a 40lb rf scenera? But that's probably not tall enough.

Raegansmom4 · Jun 11, 2011

I would not be opposed to using an untethered seat that did well for HE w/o the tether (like the Nautilus or Radian). The seats must pass without the top tether - the top tether is just a preferred safety addition.

amelia222 · Jun 11, 2011

I know you said the one position isn't usable because of the seatbelt, but how exactly is it broken? Would it still be ok to use with a locking clip?

jourdysmom · Jun 11, 2011

amelia222 said:
I know you said the one position isn't usable because of the seatbelt, but how exactly is it broken? Would it still be ok to use with a locking clip?

Or a belt shortening clip?

Pixels · Jun 11, 2011

carseatcoach said:
All US carseats (except the Safety 1st Go Hybrid; how'd that happen?) are approved without top tether use.

The Go does not have a hard shell and as such falls in the same category as the RSTV, the EZ-On vests, etc. They aren't held to the same standards as "normal" seats.

OP, you need to know that an untethered seat is an untethered seat. It doesn't matter if that untethered seat has a harness or if it's a booster - they are held to the exact same standard. I would never move a child to a booster to avoid having an untethered harnessed seat, as there is no safety benefit.

I definitely wouldn't "share" the TAs. If a seat is on one anchor, it is holding X weight. If a seat is using the retrofit thing that uses both anchors, each anchor is holding half of X weight. If you "share" then one anchor is holding 1.5 times X weight, beyond its design parameters.

Mommy2Marcus · Jun 11, 2011

I do not have top tethers in my car right now & am currently using the Nautilus in the middle seat un-tethered. I wish I could have him tethered, but right now I have no other option. So I chose the best seat I had for it & installed it in the middle.

zeo2ski · Jun 13, 2011

amelia222 said:
I know you said the one position isn't usable because of the seatbelt, but how exactly is it broken? Would it still be ok to use with a locking clip?

It's the locking mechanism in the retractor (shoulder portion, ceiling mounted). The part is no longer made and not in stock anywhere nation wide. When I pull the belt all the way out to engage the lock, as it clicks back in it sometimes gets to a certain (random) point and stops locking, then several inches later picks up the locking clicks again. I'm leary of using it with a carseat OR adult--locking clip wouldn't solve that would it? I don't know much about those, and I know nothing about belt shortening clips but I was guessing the vehicle seat belt lock is still what holds the seat in during a crash. I remember something about occasionally a locking clip will deform and pop off during a crash, but by that point it's already done it's job and the seat belt lock is engaged. Is that accurate?

zeo2ski · Jun 13, 2011

Pixels said:
OP, you need to know that an untethered seat is an untethered seat. It doesn't matter if that untethered seat has a harness or if it's a booster - they are held to the exact same standard. I would never move a child to a booster to avoid having an untethered harnessed seat, as there is no safety benefit.

Thank you. This is what I was thinking, but then I wasn't sure how the dynamics play out with harness vs. booster.

Pixels said:
I definitely wouldn't "share" the TAs. If a seat is on one anchor, it is holding X weight. If a seat is using the retrofit thing that uses both anchors, each anchor is holding half of X weight. If you "share" then one anchor is holding 1.5 times X weight, beyond its design parameters.

I totally get what you're saying and agree, the only thing is in this case, it is not actually a tether anchor designed for that purpose; it is a cargo hook that is drilled through the frame of the vechicle with an instruction sheet that is not clear whether both methods can be used at the same time or not. I don't want to share, and can't really anyway because I can't get two seats side by side back there, but thanks for the confirmation.

Pixels · Jun 13, 2011

zeo2ski said:
It's the locking mechanism in the retractor (shoulder portion, ceiling mounted). The part is no longer made and not in stock anywhere nation wide. When I pull the belt all the way out to engage the lock, as it clicks back in it sometimes gets to a certain (random) point and stops locking, then several inches later picks up the locking clicks again. I'm leary of using it with a carseat OR adult--locking clip wouldn't solve that would it? I don't know much about those, and I know nothing about belt shortening clips but I was guessing the vehicle seat belt lock is still what holds the seat in during a crash. I remember something about occasionally a locking clip will deform and pop off during a crash, but by that point it's already done it's job and the seat belt lock is engaged. Is that accurate?

A BSC would definitely work. The BSC takes up all of the extra belt taking the retractor out of the equation entirely.

When it stops clicking, is the belt unlocked at that point, or do you just not hear it? If you can't hear anything but the belt remains locked, it should be okay.

I can't confidently tell you whether it's okay to use that with an adult or LC. The one retractor I've played with, the car seat locking mechanism was totally separate from the emergency locking mechanism. In that particular vehicle, the emergency locking mechanism would still work and therefore be safe for an adult or locking clip install - but before I trusted that the emergency locking mechanism was okay, I'd want to know how the car seat locking mechanism became damaged. Was it in a crash? Did a chunk of food or a bug get in the mechanism? Is the vehicle old enough that the part broke due to age? Also, just because there were two separate mechanisms in the Honda Fit doesn't mean that it's the same way in your vehicle (Suburban, right?).

zeo2ski · Jun 13, 2011

Thanks for all the tips on new 40 lb seats!

Pixels said:
When it stops clicking, is the belt unlocked at that point, or do you just not hear it? If you can't hear anything but the belt remains locked, it should be okay.

It does remain locked up until the point where it stopped clicking, then there's just a "blank" spot that isn't locked. Sometimes it starts clicking again and locks...it's just really inconsistent. If it is locked when I install the carseat, it SHOULD stay that way, it just worries me that it is not functioning properly. Is this something that a tech could let me know if it's okay or not?

Pixels said:
, I'd want to know how the car seat locking mechanism became damaged. Was it in a crash? Did a chunk of food or a bug get in the mechanism? Is the vehicle old enough that the part broke due to age? Also, just because there were two separate mechanisms in the Honda Fit doesn't mean that it's the same way in your vehicle (Suburban, right?).

No crash. It's a 1998 and both passenger and driver's side in the 3rd row were having this problem. DH was able to order the replacement part for the drivers side, but there are none available for passenger side. It's just in the 3rd row--the retractors are definitely different than in the 2nd row, pretty clunky not smooth, even the new part. DH thought it could be from all the carseat installing. I have tried many many times to get radians installed back there which involved a lot of jumping up and down in the seat while the retractor is already locked, so I don't know, it's possible.

Sounds like the Honda Fit had a different type, I'm not sure. These are the basic pull the seat belt all the way out to "switch" the retractor to locking mode. Yes, suburban.

Pixels · Jun 13, 2011

zeo2ski said:
It does remain locked up until the point where it stopped clicking, then there's just a "blank" spot that isn't locked. Sometimes it starts clicking again and locks...it's just really inconsistent. If it is locked when I install the carseat, it SHOULD stay that way, it just worries me that it is not functioning properly. Is this something that a tech could let me know if it's okay or not?

I would say that's not okay. If the seatbelt retracts another click or two and ends up in an unlocked zone, you might not even know it, but the belt wouldn't be locked.

Sounds like the Honda Fit had a different type, I'm not sure. These are the basic pull the seat belt all the way out to "switch" the retractor to locking mode. Yes, suburban.

The Fit has the usual type that you pull all the way out to switch.

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