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  1. #41
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    sad, indeed. i would take a "plain" legacy wagon over the outback version any day. to hear that they are discontinuing it does make me a bit angry.
    That's too bad. The standard Legacy wagon was a very reasonable and safe choice for people that needed AWD. My only other beef with Subaru was that stability control was hard to get on many models- did they make it optional or standard on more trim levels for 2008?

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  3. #42
    Carseat Crazy sixboys's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    not to mention that SUVs, on average, also pollute much more than minivans, but this will be changing very soon. i seem to be the only one who ever seems to be vocal about this issue (well, you have talked about it too, darren ).
    My Ford Excursion pollutes less than your Mazda3. However I do not feel the right to criticize your choice of vehicle because of this. My frustration I guess is because there are people who do feel that right, both on this forum and in the general public. I guess I just need to get thicker skin!
    Amy
    Happily married to my high school sweetheart.
    SAHM to 3 sweet lil' girls and 6 boisterous and loving little boys.

  4. #43
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixboys View Post
    I guess I just don't see that one has an ability to know enough about a stranger's situation to determine if their actions are acceptable or not. And more importantly, who exactly determines what the standards of acceptability are?
    I think it's the usual standard of not being wasteful. Don't take more food than you can eat, so to speak. We are a very wasteful society and we're all guilty of taking more than we need in almost everything, every day. Some things are just a lot more obvious than others.

    A generalization is certainly unfair in many cases, but again, if you genuinely need a big truck or SUV, then it doesn't apply to you. Fortunately, we now have models like Freestyle and Pilot that appeal to SUV buyers and have many of the advantages of minivans. For those with even more modest needs of size and space, a hybrid Highlander gets great city mileage for a 7-passenger vehicle. Even with AWD, it costs less than the full size, truck-based SUVs.

    For the original poster, none of these newer, safer models is likely to fit the budget constraints. A 2004 Pacifica crossover SUV is a top contender, though, especially if you find one with optional side curtain airbags. You can find them for close to $10,000. For safety, I'd personally much rather have a Pacifica than any full-size SUV from a few years ago, let alone from 2000 or earlier. In addition to having side curtain airbags available, the 2004 Pacifica has a full set of shoulder belts and head restraints, good crash test ratings, reasonable performance/handling, relatively good fuel economy, low rollover risk and you can get AWD if you need it, too.

    A few from a quick search-

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=218602968

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=221449211

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=214186153

    For minivans, a 1999-2000 Honda Odyssey or a newer Ford minivan do pretty well for safety and might fit the budget, too.

  5. #44
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Amy, if you see misinformation, don't take it personally. Just refute it! Post the facts. None of us gets it right all the time. If we're misinformed or if the facts change, we want to know!
    Ulrike, mom to:
    Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)


    See an inappropriate post? Don't reply to it; report it!
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  6. #45
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixboys View Post
    However I do not feel the right to criticize your choice of vehicle because of this.
    Amy, you clearly do *need* a large vehicle, and I think everyone would agree with that. And my friend who owns a Land Rover, despite having only one child, needs her car, because she is a hospital-based anesthesiologist who lives in an area where they get occasional very heavy snows. Lives depend on whether she can get to work, and a Land Rover guarantees that she can. Fine, no problem there.

    But the fact of the matter is, trucks and truck-based SUVs put people in passenger cars at much greater risk in crashes. An Excursion is far more likely to kill me and my family in a side impact crash than a Mazda3. Other people's choices in cars affect my safety on the road. And I do think that's my business. I think all of us know people who drive massive trucks that they don't really need, just because they like the feel of them, or think it's cooler. That's not a good enough reason to put others at increased danger.
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
    DD#2 (4 y, 2 months, 43 in, 42 lbs) Britax Marathon

  7. #46
    CPS Technician An Aurora's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by twokidstwodogs View Post
    But the OP said she wanted to avoid a minivan because they aren't cool. (I asked in my first response why she wasn't considering a van.)
    I never said that minivans aren't cool. Granted, I don't think they will win you any coolness awards, but that's not why I was more interested in an SUV. I also said that we were leaning towards buying a minivan over a large SUV.

  8. #47
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixboys View Post
    My Ford Excursion pollutes less than your Mazda3. However I do not feel the right to criticize your choice of vehicle because of this. My frustration I guess is because there are people who do feel that right, both on this forum and in the general public. I guess I just need to get thicker skin!
    less?

    thick skin is indeed something that people need, not only around here but on any public forum. that is just the nature of public forums. everyone has opinions, and for every question that is asked, a flood of opinions will rush in. a long time ago someone here had posted a question asking why on earth anyone would buy a car that got poor crash test ratings, and singled out the mazda3 in her few examples. was i offended? well, slightly, but i was more offended by the lack of informed reasoning than i was because my car was "targeted" by her in her question. rather than express that i was being attacked, i kindly informed her that the data she was basing her question on is easily misinterpreted (and based on optional safety features that were not included on the test vehicle).

    like others have stated, i do accept that there are people who clearly need certain vehicles for certain purposes, and it seems that you clearly do. but for every one like you, there are 10 others who truly don't need a large SUV, and often it is because they are misinformed. they think they need it for reasons that simply aren't valid, or they just want it for whatever macho or cool factor they think they are buying into with ownership. that's the typical SUV owner that i do not agree with. since the thread had veered into a discussion of why people like or dislike SUVs or minivans, i felt it appropriate to voice my opinion on the matter. you certainly DO have the right to do so also.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  9. #48
    CPS Technician
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    I'm kinda not understanding why anyone has a right to attach anyones choice/need of vehicle choice... I mean we have a land rover and only 3 kids so i could get by with out it, but we wanted it, got a great price on it and LOVE IT!
    I don't love that it might polute the air or that it takes a lot of gas, but we only fill it up 1-2 times a month right now that's only $75-150 a month in gas. that is used for family trips, ect.
    In my intrepid i use for work so i do get reimbursed for gas milage at a rate of .40 a mile (not great right now but it works) i fill it up 1 time a week atleast so that's $45 X 4 atleast $180 but usally more.

    So my intrepid uses more gas then my big SUV... but i dirve it less. and i do know the intrepid gets better gas milage but some times if i'm going out shopping all day with the kids alone i need them to have a little more space and not be 3 across the back. ya know.
    Becky CPS Tech, driver of '05 Quest, and Mama to
    DS 8y 6m (51.5" 61# torso 20") Backless Turbo and parkway
    DD 6y 4m (47" 42.5# torso 16") Parkway and Radian F/F
    DD 4y 1m (42" 35# torso 15") Marathon F/F

  10. #49
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Momto2BabyGirls View Post
    I never said that minivans aren't cool. Granted, I don't think they will win you any coolness awards, but that's not why I was more interested in an SUV. I also said that we were leaning towards buying a minivan over a large SUV.
    Not technically, but you did say that you hated them and really didn't want one Anyway, I think I've hijacked your thread enough times. CPS Darren had some good suggestions for you; I hope you can find something that works for your family.
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
    DD#2 (4 y, 2 months, 43 in, 42 lbs) Britax Marathon

  11. #50
    CPS Technician An Aurora's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by twokidstwodogs View Post
    Not technically, but you did say that you hated them and really didn't want one Anyway, I think I've hijacked your thread enough times. CPS Darren had some good suggestions for you; I hope you can find something that works for your family.

    True, but coolness wasn't a deciding factor. I don't like the way they look, but I can suck it up and drive one if it means better fuel economy, convenient seating arrangements, and greater safety for everyone. I've never been a minivan fan, as I grew up on a ranch and drove huge trucks everywhere, but now I can definitely appreciate them now that I have car seats & gear to haul around
    Anna~ RN and expired CPST (hoping to recert soon!)

  12. #51
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    less?
    a long time ago someone here had posted a question asking why on earth anyone would buy a car that got poor crash test ratings, and singled out the mazda3 in her few examples. was i offended? well, slightly, but i was more offended by the lack of informed reasoning than i was because my car was "targeted" by her in her question. rather than express that i was being attacked, i kindly informed her that the data she was basing her question on is easily misinterpreted (and based on optional safety features that were not included on the test vehicle).

    I've criticized the Mazda 3 in the past. Mazda could have done a better job with crash protection and could have submitted a model to the IIHS for testing with side curtain airbags. That isn't to say it's unsafe, it's just not as crashworthy as some competitive models like the new Civic. I would never tell anyone driving a Mazda3 that it is not safe or that it was the wrong choice. In fact, I also have no doubt it's safer than my 1999 Saturn SL was, and that was among the safest compact models at the time. On the other hand, I'd also have no problem giving someone some alternatives if safety was the main consideration. Then they can make their own choice which may vary, especially if other considerations like performance, reliability, style, price, value, features and such were as important to them as safety. The same goes for someone buying a minivan or large SUV. Opinions from both sides are helpful for someone making a choice, as are the basic facts from objective research.

    So, we all make our choices. I think a minivan is right for us and we utilize it pretty well. The AWD on our wagon is nice, but is not utilized and was a waste in my opinion. A family of 3-4 who does light offroading a lot might find the wagon ideal and the minivan a waste. As long as someone makes an informed choice based on their true needs, they shouldn't be [too] offended if someone else suggests another option was better in some regard.

  13. #52
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by becca011906 View Post
    I'm kinda not understanding why anyone has a right to attach anyones choice/need of vehicle choice... I mean we have a land rover and only 3 kids so i could get by with out it, but we wanted it, got a great price on it and LOVE IT!
    I don't love that it might polute the air or that it takes a lot of gas, but we only fill it up 1-2 times a month right now that's only $75-150 a month in gas. that is used for family trips, ect.

    We get to attack anyone's opinion in Amercia;-) - especially when it pertains to a priviledge that affects us all (like motor vehicle injuries and fatalities). Driving is not a right and motor vehicle crashes are the #1 killer for age groups up to 35, not to mention a major source of oil consumption and pollution. The less energy on the roads, the safer the vehicles on the roads and the more fuel efficient and less polluting the vehicles on the roads, the better it is for all of us. Sharing opinions and debating these topics in regards to vehicle choice and child restraints is the reason these forums exist; so people can make better informed choices. What people do with that information is up to them, of course.

    It's not really about attacking someone who has already made choice. It's about providing information to those who are currently making a choice. Many times, these separate things appear to be the same, unfortunately.

  14. #53
    CPS Technician An Aurora's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Thank you for the information, Darren & SPB. I really have learned alot on this thread, about factors I had never considered. I'll definitely keep all this in mind when making the choice. Do you have a link to emission output of different vehicles?
    Anna~ RN and expired CPST (hoping to recert soon!)

  15. #54
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by Momto2BabyGirls View Post
    Thank you for the information, Darren & SPB. I really have learned alot on this thread, about factors I had never considered. I'll definitely keep all this in mind when making the choice. Do you have a link to emission output of different vehicles?
    Go to www.fueleconomy.gov. The EPA is in the process of revising its criteria for estimating miles per gallon, but that site will give you information on MPG and overall emissions of individual vehicles. You can also compare vehicles side-by-side, which is cool.
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
    DD#2 (4 y, 2 months, 43 in, 42 lbs) Britax Marathon

  16. #55
    CPS Technician An Aurora's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Thank you so much!!

    ETA:WOW this is really, really scary. I can't wait to get rid of it!!

    15 mpg, $5.75 to drive 25 miles, $3500/year on gas, 24.5 barrels/year gas consumption, 13.1 tons/year of greenhouse gas emissions!
    Anna~ RN and expired CPST (hoping to recert soon!)

  17. #56
    Carseat Crazy sixboys's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    To answer your question southpawboston, my Excursion runs on waste vegetable oil. So, yes, I consume less fuel and emit less pollution than you do in your Mazda3. Regardless, I would still most likely be scorned by you if you were to see me climb out of it with one child in tow at the supermarket. This is the only reason I engaged in this conversation. To possibly open your eyes that while you may think you can judge another as wasteful, you actually may be the party who is more guilty of the "crime".

    P.S. I think Mazda3s are awesome! We had an one with the side impact airbags, ABS and a manual tranny. I miss that fun little car.

    That being said, I have company in town and must bow out of this discussion. Thanks for the entertainment!
    Amy
    Happily married to my high school sweetheart.
    SAHM to 3 sweet lil' girls and 6 boisterous and loving little boys.

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