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  1. #21
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    as much as i am anti-minivan, i am even more so anti-SUV. SUV's are just less efficient in terms of space usage and weight, and they tend to be horrible gas guzzlers and polluters as well (yes, SUVs are not held to the same standards as passenger cars for spewing pollution out their tailpipes ). they also handle like barges. crossovers seem to be much better in this regard, but they still aren't as flexible and space-efficient as a rectangular box, which most minivans are.

    next car for this family will most likely be a micro-mini van such as the mazda5, or something similar if something like it hits the market in the next couple of years. basically a tall passenger car/wagon with three seating rows.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

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  3. #22
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    My problem with so many of the SUVs and minivans that have 3rd row is that the 3rd row is right up against the back of the vehicle, should you get in a rearend collision. Not sure why so many people find minivans to be safer, in that respect and in others, honestly. I drive a GMC Yukon XL, same as the Chevy Suburban and I sit up higher than minivans, and my vehicle feels so much more solid than the minivans I have ridden in, for my safety should I be hit, I am in a truck with lots of seats. I also have over 2 feet of cargo room, so if I get plowed from behind, they have to go through 2 feet of space before coming close to my occupants. I have been noticing minivans lately, after the Orange County accident and the majority of them have little to no space behind the 3rd row. The Mercedes SUV is one of the worst for space back there.
    Just an FYI, the Suburban is larger than the Expedition it compares more to the Excursion. AND if you add the 3rd row to the Tahoe or Yukon is does limit your cargo space, but in the Suburban, you still have more than 2 feet of space behind your 3rd row of seats.
    I have never found my 3rd row seat to be "flimsy" as another poster said. To me it is just as solid as the 2nd row seat, a bit more narrow because of the wheel wells. Accessing can be a problem, but we leave the middle seat in its layed down position, it is a 60/40 split, so my 5yo has no problems getting in his Regent in the 3rd row. I can also reach him without having to climb in the back, by either leaning across or accessing him in his seat by the 2nd door on the drivers side. I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Yukon XL, wouldn't trade it for anything.

    To UlrikeDG, the comment about being cool driving a Suburban. I bet there are people in this world that have them for the cool factor. But in our household it is functional and safety first. First is safety, as I stated above, the space behind the 3rd row of seats (which is necessary for our family as we have 2 kids, hoping for a 3rd soon and DH has a son from his first marriage)is greater in the Suburban, and it is a truck, not a longer version of a car, as minivans are. Function for us, we live on a ranch in rural Idaho part of the year, use to live there full time, the road to the place is about 1/2 the time 4 wheel drive access only, and the other part of the time, it is dirt, with large rocks that are sometimes in the road and cannot be moved. No way a minivan could access our property. So, as I said, while I bet there are some people who have a Burb to be cool, there are still those that have it for needs.
    Lori (I drive Cadillac Escalade ESV) SAHM to Brooks 9/13/01 seatbelt only, Brady 7/4/03 seatbelt only, Kinsadie 2/23/08 Pink Britax Frontier, and Brakin David 6/7/10 FF in a cowmooflage Britax Frontier Clicktight

  4. #23
    CPS Technician TXDani's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by UlrikeDG View Post
    I still don't understand what's so cool about being a mom driving a Suburban.

    I don't get why a suburban is cool either...especially when everyone and their mom drives one.

  5. #24
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyfamily View Post
    First is safety, as I stated above, the space behind the 3rd row of seats (which is necessary for our family as we have 2 kids, hoping for a 3rd soon and DH has a son from his first marriage)is greater in the Suburban, and it is a truck, not a longer version of a car, as minivans are.
    that is really just a myth that a truck is safer than a car. if you check NHTSA, IIHS or informedforlife scores, minivans and crossover vehicles top the safety charts. trucks also handle poorly and carry a much higher rollover risk.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  6. #25
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyfamily View Post
    Not sure why so many people find minivans to be safer, in that respect and in others, honestly.
    Minivans generally handle better than regular (non crossover) SUVs, and they often come with safety features that SUVs don't. Look at informedforlife.org, and you'll see that minivans generally beat SUVs in crash tests.

    Also, minivans are much safer for the passengers of other cars. The extra height of SUVs means that they are much more of a threat in collisions.

    But, then, I can extol the virtues of minivans because it's my husband who drives our Odyssey! I drive what's known as a "soccer mom race car."
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
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  7. #26
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by thefosters.2 View Post

    I don't get why a suburban is cool either...especially when everyone and their mom drives one.
    Around where I live, Suburbans are *not* cool because of their size and gas consumption. If you want to be cool around here, you need to drive a Prius!

    (Attention car manufacturers: would someone please make a hybrid station wagon? Then maybe I could be cool too!)
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
    DD#2 (4 y, 2 months, 43 in, 42 lbs) Britax Marathon

  8. #27
    CPSDarren - Admin SafeDad's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyfamily View Post
    My problem with so many of the SUVs and minivans that have 3rd row is that the 3rd row is right up against the back of the vehicle, should you get in a rearend collision. Not sure why so many people find minivans to be safer, in that respect and in others, honestly.
    Severe rear impacts are not very common, accounting for less than 10% of all crashes with fatalities. Side impacts are a much greater danger, especially to kids. Having side curtain airbags and good side impact crash test ratings is much more important for the overall safety of the occupants than the amount of cargo space behind the third row seat. Due to the low frequency of severe rear-enders and related fatalities, there is not even a crash test to evaluate how rear crush space correlates to occupant safety. Also, longer engine compartments on cars/trucks do not always correlate to better frontal crash results. It's the design of the crush space and occupant restraints that are more important than sheer length. Even so, most full size minivans do have 1.5 to 2 feet of cargo space behind the third row.

    I drive a GMC Yukon XL, same as the Chevy Suburban and I sit up higher than minivans, and my vehicle feels so much more solid than the minivans I have ridden in, for my safety should I be hit, I am in a truck with lots of seats.
    Riding high may be a benefit if you are struck from the side. Everything is a tradeoff, though. A high center of gravity means inferior crash avoidance in terms of handling and a greater rollover risk (rollovers are far more deadly than rear-enders in terms of fatalities). "Solid", in terms of a rigid body-on-frame chassis, trades off handling and crash energy absorption for off-road, towing and payload capability. Weight is no advantage in side impacts or single vehicle crashes with fixed objects. The rigid box frame can be a disadvantage in a crash with a fixed object like a wall, pole or another large truck with a rigid frame. Less crushing means more energy is transferred to the occupants.

    To UlrikeDG, the comment about being cool driving a Suburban. I bet there are people in this world that have them for the cool factor. But in our household it is functional and safety first. First is safety, as I stated above, the space behind the 3rd row of seats (which is necessary for our family as we have 2 kids, hoping for a 3rd soon and DH has a son from his first marriage)is greater in the Suburban, and it is a truck, not a longer version of a car, as minivans are.
    The main risk for passengers in the back row in a rear-impact is to heavy adults that might load the seat-back to failure. This risk is greater if the seating position lacks proper head restraint and/or a shoulder belt. Kids tend to be at even less risk because they are lighter and often have their own head restraint from a harnessed child restraint or high back booster. Being based on a car, as minivans are, also has advantages in terms of the energy-absorbing chassis and handling capabilities. These are main advantages for the unibody chassis that is optimized for hauling occupants vs. a truck frame that is optimized for payload capability.

    Occupant safety has improved significantly for truck-based designs over the last 5-10 years, though. Most new models even come with key features like side curtain airbags for all rows of passengers, stability control, head restraints and shoulder belts in all seating positions. Even just a few years ago, I would never have even considered a truck-based SUV for my family. Now, there are a number of full size models that I would consider if fuel economy was not a factor.


    Function for us, we live on a ranch in rural Idaho part of the year, use to live there full time, the road to the place is about 1/2 the time 4 wheel drive access only, and the other part of the time, it is dirt, with large rocks that are sometimes in the road and cannot be moved. No way a minivan could access our property. So, as I said, while I bet there are some people who have a Burb to be cool, there are still those that have it for needs.
    Heavy duty off-road capability, towing and the ability to seat 9 passengers are indeed major benefits of full sized SUVs. Minivans simply don't do these things well, if at all. What is defnitely NOT cool is to have a full sized SUV with a primary daily use of transporting one occupant through urban traffic jams on a daily commute.

    I'm not saying that full size SUVs are unsafe. On the contrary, most modern vehicles are quite safe and protect their occupants very well, especially when equipped with the latest proven safety features like side curtain airbags and stability control. Regardless of what vehicle you own, driving unimpaired, undistracted and properly restraining all your passengers are by far the most important things you can do to reduce the risk of serious injury or death from a motor vehicle crash.

    If safety is the top priority and a buyer is looking for a little more in terms of occupant protection, Informed For Life is a good composite for various factors that affect occupant safety. Many large trucks and SUVs do not have a full set of crash testing, especially for side impacts. That does affect their rankings. It's unfortunate that these popular vehicles being marketed to families are not completely crash tested. Some models may well deserve to be ranked among the safest vehicles on the road, but we will never know for sure. Similarly, others may be among the least safe of new models, we just don't know. Fortunately, even most models at the bottom of the rankings are still reasonably safe overall and still safer than models from previous generations.

  9. #28
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
    What is defnitely NOT cool is to have a full sized SUV with a primary daily use of transporting one occupant through urban traffic jams on a daily commute.
    and sadly, for every small, efficient commuter car i see in gridlock driving into boston, i see five behemoth SUVs (often with just one occupant).
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  10. #29
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    and sadly, for every small, efficient commuter car i see in gridlock driving into boston, i see five behemoth SUVs (often with just one occupant).
    Not to mention that many have no hitch hardware and some are 2WD, and you know they've never seen any kind of off-road or towing duty.

    With the exception of the full size GM SUVs and discontinued Excursion, you really don't get any extra seating or cargo space over something like an 8-passenger Sienna or 7-passenger Sienna AWD. Models like the Expedition, Durango, Sequoia and others don't really distinguish themselves much at all for benefits for hauling a big family around town vs. one of the better minivans. Other than styling, of course;-)

  11. #30
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Wow. I must say that I read through this feeling slightly attacked, and I am a person who can full justify that I need a nine passenger vehicle.

    What about the occasion that I have to run to the grocery store with only 1 or 2 of my children and my husband has the little car at work? Am I looked at with disdain from those around me who think I'm guzzling gas that I should otherwise be saving for someone else? How judgemental and misinformed!

    Are you 100% certain that those people you see in rush hour don't need their SUVs to fit a bill that no other vehicle could offer them? Are you 100% sure that SUV driver consumes more fuel than a mini-van driver?

    Everyone has their opinions on what is the best way to do things, and that is what they are, opinions. The original poster of this thread asked about SUVs with third row seating, and the thread turned into a bit of an attack on SUV owners/enthusiasts. It doesn't seem to me that it is very helpful or kind, but perhaps that is they way it works on this board? I'm too new to know.
    Amy
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  12. #31
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    How about the Hybrid Highlander? It's an SUV, so I think that automatically qualifies you for a "cool card."
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    Roman (3/98), Evalina (3/00), Nadia (3/03), and Kira (11/07)


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  13. #32
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixboys View Post
    Wow. I must say that I read through this feeling slightly attacked, and I am a person who can full justify that I need a nine passenger vehicle.
    I'm fortunate that when I had my "big" SUV (a Honda Pilot), I also had 3 kids in car seats, so even on the rare occasions when I was out in it alone, it was quite obvious that the car was usually much more occupied.

    There are a number of good reasons to drive an SUV (or pick-em-up-truck, for that matter). "A minivan is so uncool!" is not a good reason, IMO, and that is the attitude that I am criticizing, not "I have 7 kids and a husband who all need to travel together at the same time."
    Ulrike, mom to:
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  14. #33
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by sixboys View Post
    Wow. I must say that I read through this feeling slightly attacked, and I am a person who can full justify that I need a nine passenger vehicle.

    What about the occasion that I have to run to the grocery store with only 1 or 2 of my children and my husband has the little car at work? Am I looked at with disdain from those around me who think I'm guzzling gas that I should otherwise be saving for someone else? How judgemental and misinformed!
    In this case, you haven't purchased a full size SUV as a primary commuting vehicle. If you can justify the need, then my comments don't apply. The sad part is that for every person that really can fully justify the need, there are many that simply got the mega SUV for the "cool" factor and rarely, if ever, use them for towing, off-roading or hauling 9 passengers. I have friends who regret this exact decision every day, though it took $4 gas to drive the point home.

    Are you 100% certain that those people you see in rush hour don't need their SUVs to fit a bill that no other vehicle could offer them?
    No. And if they do, I don't have any issue with that. My point was that there's not much to fully justify the need when it's a 2WD, full-size SUV without towing gear.

    Are you 100% sure that SUV driver consumes more fuel than a mini-van driver?
    On average, I am 100% certain that a full size SUV like a Suburban/Excursion uses significantly more fuel than a minivan like a Sienna (or a crossover like a Freestyle/Pilot or a hybrid like Highlander). I'm sure there are exceptions.

    Everyone has their opinions on what is the best way to do things, and that is what they are, opinions. The original poster of this thread asked about SUVs with third row seating, and the thread turned into a bit of an attack on SUV owners/enthusiasts. It doesn't seem to me that it is very helpful or kind, but perhaps that is they way it works on this board? I'm too new to know.
    I have opinions on the topic, sure. You may agree or disagree, but a thread about SUVs with 3rd row seating in a forum about car safety is a very reasonable place to put them. More importantly, there are also facts that buyers should know. Everything is a compromise. Full size SUVs fit the need for many people where no other vehicle would do. For others, an extended wheelbase minivan or crossover SUV can easily fit the need for family transportation and be safer, more flexible and consume less fuel. That's no attack. It simply is what it is.

  15. #34
    Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus UlrikeDG's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovemyfamily View Post
    To UlrikeDG, the comment about being cool driving a Suburban. I bet there are people in this world that have them for the cool factor.
    Darren has already addressed the safety issues. I just want to point out that there are several people above who specifically argued that an SUV is better than a Minivan due to the "cool factor." That is why the topic came up, not because I have some critically biased opinion about why people drive SUVs. In fact, until about 9 months ago, I drove an 8 passenger SUV.
    Ulrike, mom to:
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  16. #35
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
    On average, I am 100% certain that a full size SUV like a Suburban/Excursion uses significantly more fuel than a minivan like a Sienna (or a crossover like a Freestyle/Pilot or a hybrid like Highlander). I'm sure there are exceptions.
    not to mention that SUVs, on average, also pollute much more than minivans, but this will be changing very soon. i seem to be the only one who ever seems to be vocal about this issue (well, you have talked about it too, darren ).
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

  17. #36
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    not to mention that SUVs, on average, also pollute much more than minivans, but this will be changing very soon. i seem to be the only one who ever seems to be vocal about this issue (well, you have talked about it too, darren ).

    Back in 1999, we opted for a Subaru Outback over an SUV. It fit our needs for 1 child at the time and possibly more in the future. It was also relatively safe for models at the time. It's a nice vehicle.

    On the negative side, we could have done a lot better for fuel economy and pollution and I regret that. In our case, we really don't need AWD. It's nice to have in the winter sometimes, but we've never had a problem with our front wheel drive cars in our area. We never off-road, other than paved gravel every once in a while.

    Subaru's recent decision to re-classify the Outbacks as light trucks to avoid passenger car fuel economy requirements sickens me, too. I wish the government would just remove all the exceptions that light trucks get from fuel economy and safety standards. Then the free market would work better for consumers and the environment, rather than send profits to the auto makers. In retrospect, I'd have rather had a few more mpg instead of AWD for our needs. I'd like to get a hybrid Camry to replace it. With 3 kids, that would be a reasonable complement to a minivan for a second vehicle.

  18. #37
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by UlrikeDG View Post
    There are a number of good reasons to drive an SUV (or pick-em-up-truck, for that matter). "A minivan is so uncool!" is not a good reason, IMO, and that is the attitude that I am criticizing, not "I have 7 kids and a husband who all need to travel together at the same time."
    I agree entirely. Obviously, some people really do need SUVs, and many of us, including me, drive more car than we need. (Mine is the smallest car I could get away with, but it has more power than I really need. I have, however, made an effort to compensate for that in ordinary driving.)

    But the OP said she wanted to avoid a minivan because they aren't cool. (I asked in my first response why she wasn't considering a van.) In general, the "minivans aren't cool" attitude does bother me, particularly because SUVs do in fact pose a greater danger to me and my kids when we are in my "normal" sized station wagon. We are much more at risk in a collision with a Suburban than with a Sienna.

    Most of the people I know with full-sized SUVs do *not* need them. They have 1 or 2 kids, pull nothing, rarely carry much cargo, and do not need off-road capabilities.
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
    DD#2 (4 y, 2 months, 43 in, 42 lbs) Britax Marathon

  19. #38
    Carseat Crazy sixboys's Avatar
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Thank you, interesting responses. I think I read something along the lines of gas guzzling barges spewing pollution that made me feel a little attacked, and the subsequent agreement with that post. Perhaps it was not meant as an attack, but I must admit I have a hard time buying that.

    I guess I just don't see that one has an ability to know enough about a stranger's situation to determine if their actions are acceptable or not. And more importantly, who exactly determines what the standards of acceptability are?

    Promoting the benefits of mini-vans vs. SUVs in regards to safety, etc. is one thing, inferring SUV drivers are somehow not good citizens is another. Of course you are free to do so, I just offer that it seems a little unkind.
    Amy
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
    Subaru's recent decision to re-classify the Outbacks as light trucks to avoid passenger car fuel economy requirements sickens me, too.
    Darren, I agree, particularly since they've gotten rid of the Legacy wagon for 2008! Station wagons with all the right safety features and decent gas mileage are very, very hard to find, yet they're a great choice for many people.
    DD#1 (7 y, 5 mo, 54 in, 68 lbs ) Clek Olli
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    Re: Which SUV's offer 3rd row seating?

    Quote Originally Posted by twokidstwodogs View Post
    Darren, I agree, particularly since they've gotten rid of the Legacy wagon for 2008! Station wagons with all the right safety features and decent gas mileage are very, very hard to find, yet they're a great choice for many people.
    sad, indeed. i would take a "plain" legacy wagon over the outback version any day. to hear that they are discontinuing it does make me a bit angry.
    Two girls, 7 and 6. Trek Mountain, Specialized Hotrock, Soma Buena Vista, Bike Friday tandem, and multiple other bikes. Oh, and a Mazda5.

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