Vent My friend says the don't need to put their child (under 2) rear facing because their vechile is "safe"

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

I have recently become very set on spreading the word about rear facing car seats. I have been hit with:

"I am comfortable with my CARS/SUV/TRUCKS safety features so my kid is going to remain forward facing" <- this is the responsive I've gotten numerous times.

This is after I have shown some people NUMEROUS videos and links about the risks of forward facing in the car and the pros of rear facing. Each video featuring a different type of car/car seat.

Does anyone have any "encouraging" words that I can pass on/show my friends?

Please and thank you!

family5oregon · Apr 11, 2011

Sorry, not any help here. The mom of the 2 kidos I watch have her DD forward facing. I told her that they changed the law to RF till at least 2yr. I know it is a flat out lie but I wanted to get my point across. Well it fell on deaf ears and she said 'that sucks'

I also can't get her to watch any evidence of the dangers. So great for you getting parents to watch/read. :thumbsup:

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

family5oregon said:
Sorry, not any help here. The mom of the 2 kidos I watch have her DD forward facing. I told her that they changed the law to RF till at least 2yr. I know it is a flat out lie but I wanted to get my point across. Well it fell on deaf ears and she said 'that sucks' I also can't get her to watch any evidence of the dangers. So great for you getting parents to watch/read. :thumbsup:

It just saddens me that someone could/would willingly not inform themselves on such an important matter. I had my son forward facing until a friend pointed out all the dangers and I watched the videos. There was NO way I was going to keep him forward facing! Even in the "safest" cars you see the little ones getting thrown every where. I don't get why anyone would risk it.

babygirlsmom1005 · Apr 11, 2011

I think the problem is people don't understand crash dynamics. They don't get that yes, your child will stay in their forward facing seat seat, but their head and limbs will whip forward to a point of possibly breaking the child's neck/limbs, or hitting something in front of them - no matter what vehicle you drive, it's the crash force that causes the problem, not the type of vehicle one drives.

Best you can do is say a prayer (if your into praying) and hope they never have to test their beliefs.

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

babygirlsmom1005 said:
I think the problem is people don't understand crash dynamics. They don't get that yes, your child will stay in their forward facing seat seat, but their head and limbs will whip forward to a point of possibly breaking the child's neck/limbs, or hitting something in front of them - no matter what vehicle you drive, it's the crash force that causes the problem, not the type of vehicle one drives.

Best you can do is say a prayer (if your into praying) and hope they never have to test their beliefs.

That is exactly what I have been trying to get across to numerous people. No one seems to care/understand. I have had people tell me that it is stupid that I paid over $200 for a car seat when they bought theirs for $49 at Wal-Mart and others seem to be perfectly comfortable with a car seat that holds one the of lowest ratings, and frankly does not look safe at all!

icnee · Apr 11, 2011

I hear your frustration I often get well I already turned them forward or my other kids were fine. It gets me real annoyed. you can turn it FFing so that means the baby who is now uncomfortable in their seat cant go back RFing you know cause they dont like it. it drives me nuts. and hello your other kids were fine cause you did not crash with them in the car. some times I just have to walk away.

and then when I vent to some one at home about it I get well you cant save the world and that just puts me over the edge. Cause I am not trying to do that I am just trying to educate parents and hopefully they choose to do what has been proved to be safest but if they dont then at least I wont feel the horribble guilt if somthing were to happen to the baby/toddler. But what ticks me off is when they refuse to take in the nowledge or deni it, but then again I guess they would have to do that or they would feel like an ass for not doing it.

babygirlsmom1005 · Apr 11, 2011

MissSilverFox said:
That is exactly what I have been trying to get across to numerous people. No one seems to care/understand. I have had people tell me that it is stupid that I paid over $200 for a car seat when they bought theirs for $49 at Wal-Mart and others seem to be perfectly comfortable with a car seat that holds one the of lowest ratings, and frankly does not look safe at all!

Well, their $49.00 seat from Wal-Mart are just as safe as your $200.00 seat. Since none of the companies release their crash test findings (except The Sunshine Kids - and since there is nothing to compare to, who knows), every seat available on the market has to pass the same safety standards to be sold to the public. We don't know who has the lowest ratings, it could be Britax, it could be Graco, we just don't know.

I have everything here from a cheapy Cosco Scerena (think I gave $40.00 for it) up to a $300.00 Britax Frontier....I have no problem with any of the seats I own putting my kids into them - what counts is they are installed correctly, used correctly, etc....not what brand or what features they have beyond basics.

BigDaddy · Apr 11, 2011

The only vehicle safety feature that would offer something close to the same benefits of rear facing is a HANS device. I only know of a few vehicles that have those and they don't allow passengers...

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

babygirlsmom1005 said:
Well, their $49.00 seat from Wal-Mart are just as safe as your $200.00 seat. Since none of the companies release their crash test findings (except The Sunshine Kids - and since there is nothing to compare to, who knows), every seat available on the market has to pass the same safety standards to be sold to the public. We don't know who has the lowest ratings, it could be Britax, it could be Graco, we just don't know.

I have everything here from a cheapy Cosco Scerena (think I gave $40.00 for it) up to a $300.00 Britax Frontier....I have no problem with any of the seats I own putting my kids into them - what counts is they are installed correctly, used correctly, etc....not what brand or what features they have beyond basics.

I'm just saying, in my opinion it doesn't look as safe. Their carseat weights like 5lbs and barely dropping it on the ground causes it to crack (they told me this!) I just don't get how they can put their kid in something like that, you know? I didn't know how much their carseat cost/what brand it was until I had to use it one time. I ended up canceling my plans because the seat (even new) just didn't seem safe. It's like a rickety bridge over a fast moving stream, it just doesn't look safe. I don't get how people don't research things with all the technology and resources out there, you know?

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

BigDaddy said:
The only vehicle safety feature that would offer something close to the same benefits of rear facing is a HANS device. I only know of a few vehicles that have those and they don't allow passengers...

That is what I am trying to say!

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

It just drives me CRAZY that people don't do their research with all the technology and resources out there.

Just about every site has a place where you can read peoples feed back on things ( I am someone who ALWAYS reads it) and see that almost all the feed back is negative.

MissSilverFox · Apr 11, 2011

icnee said:
I hear your frustration I often get well I already turned them forward or my other kids were fine. It gets me real annoyed. you can turn it FFing so that means the baby who is now uncomfortable in their seat cant go back RFing you know cause they dont like it. it drives me nuts. and hello your other kids were fine cause you did not crash with them in the car. some times I just have to walk away.

and then when I vent to some one at home about it I get well you cant save the world and that just puts me over the edge. Cause I am not trying to do that I am just trying to educate parents and hopefully they choose to do what has been proved to be safest but if they dont then at least I wont feel the horribble guilt if somthing were to happen to the baby/toddler. But what ticks me off is when they refuse to take in the nowledge or deni it, but then again I guess they would have to do that or they would feel like an ass for not doing it.

It drives me crazy. It just makes no sense that people would willingly choose not to do anything when they know the dangers.
I also don't get people not researching things!
I understand that you don't have to pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to have a safe carseat, but it's smart to at least GOOGLE the car seat and see what others who actually have used it have to say.
I hate hate hate when people do things just because it is "cheaper" to do so, in most cases when something is cheap it usually doesn't last as long. I know this is not the case for every single little thing. Prime example my Hanes white tees last forever but my hundred dollar ed hardy shirt falls to pieces after 3 washes

I just don't get why people would cut corners when it comes to child safetly. Why the wouldn't want one that has latches, 5 point harneses etc etc....

MissSilverFox · Apr 12, 2011

Vechicle Safetly Rating?

I was having a discussion with my friend about rear facing car seats vs forward facing. Her son is forward facing and mine is rear facing. When I explained to her the risks of forward facing she stated:

"I've got my son forward facing. I know you feel differently but I'm really confident with all the safety features that my vehicle offers."

Do vechicle safety ratings have anything to do with car seats?

bobandjess99 · Apr 12, 2011

Re: Vechicle Safetly Rating?

Well..yes and no.
Technically, your vehicle is your first line of defense. If it completely crumples into a tiny ball of mangled steel with complete passenger compartment intrusion, then your chances of surviving a crash are definitely less.
BUT...a properly used carseat or restraint dramatically increases your chances of surviving, regardless of the safety of the vehicle.
For example, if a 2 year old is completely unrestrained, or restrained in a lap only belt, they are probably going to be ejected, or submarine, or suffer horrible soft tissue stomach injuries, which are all likely to result in severe injury or death. Those things will all happen regardless of whether you are in a 90's escort or a 2011 odyssey. That child will be hurt, and may die.

But..in a comparison of similar restraint use, sure the vehicle can make a difference. It isn't going to make a FFing 1 year old safe, or a 3 yo in a booster safe. However, a properly restrained 6 yo child in a booster in a vehicle with versus without side airbags? Could make a difference. Roof crush strength could make a big difference in a rollover crash.
So ya, some features and ratings can definitely help improve your chances.. but the biggest thing you can do is properly restrain yourself and your child.

In the specificsituation you are referencing, no, she is mistaken, and clearly doesn't understand the actual risks. All the safety features in the world won't help her FFing child if his neck snaps

Victorious4 · Apr 12, 2011

Physics:

1. the objects & occupants inside the vehicle will continue moving forward when the vehicle stops

2. kiddo's nonharnessed body parts (for example, the head) will continue moving forward after the harness stops the body (the arms & legs are also more likely to become broken or amputated when riding FF)

3. the internal organs (for example, the brain) will also continue moving into the skeletal structure after the body (in this case, the head) has stopped moving

This is called the "3 phases of a crash".

The majority of crashes are to the front of the vehicle -- not the rear -- so keeping kids RF helps to make sure their entire spine/etc. absorbs the crash force rather than any one particular spot (especially between the head & shoulders during phase 2, which is likely to result in "internal decapitation" and/or or paralysis)

Vehicles are designed to protect adults & to accomodate installation of children's carseats; carseats are designed to protect the children. Both must be used correctly; optimal protection is best achieved by following optimal recommendation for use (not bare minimums).

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org ~ please disregard typos!

joolsplus3 · Apr 12, 2011

Re: Vechicle Safetly Rating?

The pp's responses are excellent, I have nothing to add in that regard, but the whole argument sounds like back in the day when airbags were introduced. A guy let his 9 yo sit unbelted on the front seat of the 'safe, family' minivan thinking she was fine, and she died in a minor crash, and he took the car company to court and he lost. Yes, it's safe, IF you still do everything we tell you to. Heck, if her car is really new, it probably even says to keep kids RF to 2
http://carseatblog.com/9056/read-your-vehicle-manual/

"Then I saw this under Protecting Small Children: “Many experts recommend use of a rear-facing seat up to age two, if the child’s height and weight are appropriate for a rear-facing seat.” Say what? A vehicle manual recommending a rf carseat for kids up to age two? At this point, I’m nearly falling off the couch. The next two paragraphs mention using a 5-point harness until the child reaches the weight or height limit of the carseat. Since it is nearly midnight, I must be dreaming, right?"

carseatcoach · Apr 12, 2011

MissSilverFox said:
It just drives me CRAZY that people don't do their research with all the technology and resources out there.

Research -- real research -- shows that the $40 Cosco Scenera passes the exact same tests as the $250 Britax seats. Real research is not reading user reviews: most users do not know much about child passenger safety and best practice.

"Doesn't look as safe" is not real research. Personally, I don't care if my carseat cracks in a crash as long as my CHILD doesn't crack. A carseat that cracks is doing its job by absorbing the crash forces.

And LATCH is not safer than a seatbelt, and boosters are not unsafe for children who can use them properly.

ETA: clearly you care about child passenger safety. Educate yourself, and then you can help educate others.

monica-m · Apr 12, 2011

I would say "Until defying physics is a safety feature option on cars, rear facing is going to be safer". The car itself may be safer but the impacts of the child against the harness with head, legs and arms flying all over the place to hit whatever is there then organs and underdeveloped bones coming to a sudden stop remain the same.

tarabelle · Apr 12, 2011

It's very frustrating when you start sharing the information. You get a lot of negative responses, a lot of eye rolling etc.

A parent's decision to FF under age 2 is not UNsafe, it is LESS safe than RF.

Try to be non confrontational about it, you don't want to sound like a harpy know it all. Choose your words wisely. Some people are going to get defensive no matter what you say and that is your cue to back down. Your approach is everything. The problem you're having right now is that the people you're talking to are on the defense. All they're hearing you say is "You suck as a parent and you're doing it wrong" even though that isn't at all what you're saying.

In your approach, try to focus on what they're doing RIGHT first.

"Oh that's so awesome, I think you're the only person I know besides me that makes sure the harness is correctly tightened. Did you hear that we're supposed to RF to 2 now? Yeah, my ped told me at our last visit, so I did a little research on it/found videos/etc and it's much safer "

"Wow, You're the only person I've seen actually remember to use the tether! Oh, wow, he's getting SO big, time to raise that harness up huh?"

Ultimately, the decision lays with the parent. All you can do is give them the information. What they choose to do with the information is beyond your control. I learned after a while that sometimes you have to walk away and that the sooner you learn to accept that, the better off you'll be.

MissSilverFox · Apr 12, 2011

chickabiddy said:
Research -- real research -- shows that the $40 Cosco Scenera passes the exact same tests as the $250 Britax seats. Real research is not reading user reviews: most users do not know much about child passenger safety and best practice.

"Doesn't look as safe" is not real research. Personally, I don't care if my carseat cracks in a crash as long as my CHILD doesn't crack. A carseat that cracks is doing its job by absorbing the crash forces.

And LATCH is not safer than a seatbelt, and boosters are not unsafe for children who can use them properly.

ETA: clearly you care about child passenger safety. Educate yourself, and then you can help educate others.

I have always found that reading user reviews has helped me a lot when added to other research when it comes to toys, bedding, furniture, car seats etc. I like to know what other people think about it and then I do the pros/cons on my various choices.
It's my parental instinct, if something doesns't look safe to me and the reviews are bad then I am not going to buy it, it really is that simple.
I wouldn't care if my car seat cracked in a car accident either, but if it cracks from just setting it on the floor and it rolling back, I def won't be using it anymore even if it is brand new.

Vent My friend says the don't need to put their child (under 2) rear facing because their vechile is "safe"

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