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So, is EH back "in"? (AAP)
- Thread starter Stacy
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fyrfightermomma
New member
Following this. We swung from harnessing as long as possible to our current view of 5-6 if neurotypical. Are we going to swing back?? Is there even evidence to support swinging back?
LISmama810
Admin - CPS Technician
There's no proof that harnessing an older child is either beneficial or detrimental.
I believe the intent of "harness as long as possible" is to make sure that the majority of kids will be safe once they're in a booster.
Since messages to parents need to be short and sweet, I'd rather see a recommendation that kids be harnessed until 7 rather than leaving open the idea that they can be boostered at 2.
Do I believe a 7-year-old is safer in a 5-point harness? Not necessarily, but it's not a bad default position until the parent can get more information and evaluate on their own.
I believe the intent of "harness as long as possible" is to make sure that the majority of kids will be safe once they're in a booster.
Since messages to parents need to be short and sweet, I'd rather see a recommendation that kids be harnessed until 7 rather than leaving open the idea that they can be boostered at 2.
Do I believe a 7-year-old is safer in a 5-point harness? Not necessarily, but it's not a bad default position until the parent can get more information and evaluate on their own.
fyrfightermomma
New member
Makes sense. I guess if they say 7, since most people cut it shorter, it should get most to 5. Where before it was 4, so they cut it short at 2 if that makes sense. They know parents wont follow it but if they have a higher age, the age they stop will be older than currently.
But I have to wonder. People see my 5 year old in a booster, see these recs and wonder why as a tech Im not following best practice. It could get sticky
But I have to wonder. People see my 5 year old in a booster, see these recs and wonder why as a tech Im not following best practice. It could get sticky
carseatcoach
Carseat Crankypants
For a lot of people, "as long as possible" is still 40#. I absolutely support harnessing to the limits of a Cosco HBB or Alpha Omega.
I don't necessarily support harnessing typical kids to the limits of a Frontier85, but in most cases, that's not what we're talking about. And there's no harm in doing it if someone takes a strict interpretation.
I agree with LISMama that it's likely a case of trying to get a message across.
I don't necessarily support harnessing typical kids to the limits of a Frontier85, but in most cases, that's not what we're talking about. And there's no harm in doing it if someone takes a strict interpretation.
I agree with LISMama that it's likely a case of trying to get a message across.
christineka
New member
Hasn't your dd grown too tall for the nautilus? 'm sure the recommendations allow for the child to outgrow the seat before age 7. Sure, you could by a frontier 85, but the recommendations are not "to max out the biggest car seat on the market". If anyone questions you, it's to age 7 or till the seat is outgrown.
Baylor
New member
My Son was harnessed in the GN til 6.5. I wish I would have bought a FR85 to begin with. My plan is to get him one now.
Kyras_Mama
New member
I think that since most people won't be buying a Nautilus or a Frontier after buying a convertible that will get their child to 2 rearfacing, if they do follow the new rec they'll just hopefully be harnessing to 5 or 6 which is when their kiddo may be ready for a booster anyway.
carseatcoach
Carseat Crankypants
Again, I think we need to consider the audience. I don't think the AAP is talking to us here. 
I don't think the recommendation is to buy Frontier85s for school-age kids. I think it's to keep the kids in their 40# seats instead of switching them to boosters at age 3.
:soapbox again: Those of us who are techs and who work seatchecks, especially in less privileged/educated areas, understand that most of this stuff on the board isn't even in most people's minds. Harnessing "as long as possible" in most of the seats that most people have (ComfortSport, Scenera, Cosco HBB) isn't really best practice, but it's a reasonable, responsible recommendation. The AAP isn't addressing car-seat.org carseat geeks. They're addressing the general public who thinks that if 3y/30# is okay for a backless booster, then 2y/25# is probably close enough and the 9mo needs the Cosco HBB anyhow.
I don't think the recommendation is to buy Frontier85s for school-age kids. I think it's to keep the kids in their 40# seats instead of switching them to boosters at age 3.:soapbox again: Those of us who are techs and who work seatchecks, especially in less privileged/educated areas, understand that most of this stuff on the board isn't even in most people's minds. Harnessing "as long as possible" in most of the seats that most people have (ComfortSport, Scenera, Cosco HBB) isn't really best practice, but it's a reasonable, responsible recommendation. The AAP isn't addressing car-seat.org carseat geeks. They're addressing the general public who thinks that if 3y/30# is okay for a backless booster, then 2y/25# is probably close enough and the 9mo needs the Cosco HBB anyhow.
I agree that the intent is probably aimed more toward seats with 40# harness weight limits (when they say "as long as possible").
My concern is that there are lots of people who already don't know (or care) when their seat is outgrown, and hearing this recommendation might unintentionally encourage them to keep their child harnessed to a certain age regardless of whether or not the child fits in the seat. If a kid outgrows their cosco highback booster harness at age 3 (which is totally reasonable), then the parent might be more apt to keep him/her in the harness even when it's outgrown. (Whether that is better or worse than moving a 3 year old to the poorly-fitting booster option of the cosco highback, I'm not honestly sure!)
Anyway, I *hope* that the new recommendations help to keep more kids safer, and I think that will be the end result, despite the "issues" that I/we can find with them.
My concern is that there are lots of people who already don't know (or care) when their seat is outgrown, and hearing this recommendation might unintentionally encourage them to keep their child harnessed to a certain age regardless of whether or not the child fits in the seat. If a kid outgrows their cosco highback booster harness at age 3 (which is totally reasonable), then the parent might be more apt to keep him/her in the harness even when it's outgrown. (Whether that is better or worse than moving a 3 year old to the poorly-fitting booster option of the cosco highback, I'm not honestly sure!)
Anyway, I *hope* that the new recommendations help to keep more kids safer, and I think that will be the end result, despite the "issues" that I/we can find with them.
fyrfightermomma
New member
Yeah she is too tall, but she was switched from a Frontier 85 when she went to a booster lol. So she had time. But Sophia needed it so I guess that's my reason
Did I miss something
The NHTSA flier mentions age 7.
Victorious4
Senior Community Member
I don't see any back-pedaling, they're just saying to keep kids harnessed for as long as any harness seat offers & most don't harness as long as we want them to (many will still go on believing their toddler can ride in a backless booster reardless).
Besides, although there is nothing concrete to say that harnessing is always safer than boostering, we know that each carseat type "graduation" is a reduction in protection in general -- harnesses spread the crash force out over a broader area of the body & limit forward movement thereby reducing risk of impacting the vehicle interior more so than a booster.
That's just physics but it doesn't mean that a boostered child isn't as safe assuming proper fit & correct positioning.
Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org
Besides, although there is nothing concrete to say that harnessing is always safer than boostering, we know that each carseat type "graduation" is a reduction in protection in general -- harnesses spread the crash force out over a broader area of the body & limit forward movement thereby reducing risk of impacting the vehicle interior more so than a booster.
That's just physics but it doesn't mean that a boostered child isn't as safe assuming proper fit & correct positioning.
Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org
safeinthecar
Moderator - CPS Technician
The statement isn't aimed at people who are going to ignore the limits of the seat. It's aimed at people who are so busy looking at the lowest limit to switch into a booster that they don't bother to note what the upper weight limit of the harness is. The people who are going to ignore the limits are rarely the same people who bother doing the research on the recommendations in the first place.
swtgi1982
New member
Again, I think we need to consider the audience. I don't think the AAP is talking to us here.
:soapbox again: Those of us who are techs and who work seatchecks, especially in less privileged/educated areas, understand that most of this stuff on the board isn't even in most people's minds. Harnessing "as long as possible" in most of the seats that most people have (ComfortSport, Scenera, Cosco HBB) isn't really best practice, but it's a reasonable, responsible recommendation. The AAP isn't addressing car-seat.org carseat geeks. They're addressing the general public who thinks that if 3y/30# is okay for a backless booster, then 2y/25# is probably close enough and the 9mo needs the Cosco HBB anyhow.
Yeah so maybe we will stay seeing people who keep their under 20 lb one year old RF. Maybe..... Instead of seeing what used to be 1yr AND 20lb as 1 yr or 20lb and since they are one turning them even if they are only 16-17lb or the 20+lb 6-9 mon old being turned since they are over 20 lb.
I do not see alot of parents doing the two years right away but who knows. I just think we will see more kids making it to the old 1 yr AND 20lbs. I personally feel that until we start see the changes from car seat manufactures by raising the minimums that we will start seeing major change. But then again how many typical parents even follow the minimums on seats? I mean I see 25-27ish lb 3 yr olds in 40lb+ NB turbos all the time. And the worst part is the ones I see parents are firemen and EMTs kids who you think would know first hand the dangers of not following the guidelines (not saying anythig bad ably firemen and EMTs just making a point)
canadiangie
New member
No, you're not alone. I too watch some of the booster footage and get a smidge anxious. The ideal is rear facing, and that's clear as day. But after that, it's really a toss up for me in terms of which is "better"; a 5 point harness or a bpb. With one you have slightly higher neck load, with the other you have more forward head excursion. If I rear face until closer to age 5 am I really that worried about increased neck load? Clearly based on footage a 5 point harness stretches quite a bit. Thinking about HE and dd's head striking the interior of the vehicle seems worrisome IMO. I really do support whichever decision the parent makes, assuming the child meets criteria to go into a bpb. I'm not convinced either method is better.
Kat_Momof3
New member
I think they're still referring to using the seat you have to it's limits... and having one that goes past 40lbs... which still means about age 5-7yrs... I'm fine with it.
most kids aren't going be riding in the frontier, which is the only one that could really harness most kids longer than that.
most kids aren't going be riding in the frontier, which is the only one that could really harness most kids longer than that.
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