Awful Question

Mama Jo · Feb 17, 2011

DS will be at his dad's tomorrow, and it will actually be the first time dad has him with his other 3 kids. Without getting into too much carseat detail - because it would drive you all to drink anyway - I'm trying to decide whether I should rf or ff DS' RN when I put it in his car.

I'm fortunate, because he does follow my carseat rules; and he does allow me to install the carseat myself in his car. So that's a plus. I've always installed it rf.

My problem is, with the RN behind the passenger seat, the passenger seat sits pretty far forward. And there is no other place in the vehicle where I can install his seat. I KNOW he will be putting a 6 yr old into the front passenger seat without so much as a booster. There's nothing I can do about it. And there is an airbag there.

Once my RA55 gets in, I'll be letting him use that one, so space won't be as much of an issue. This will probably be the last and only time this comes up. On one hand, I don't want to force the 6 yr old too close to the front of the vehicle; but on the other hand, I don't want him to have even the slightest inkling that ff DS is acceptable.

hrice · Feb 17, 2011

Hmmm...would a Scenera 40RF be a possibility?

abigaylebelle · Feb 17, 2011

My first thought is would it be possible for you to drive your ds to his dad's house so that dad doesn't have to drive with all 4 children in the vehicle?
If that is not possible or they are planning to go somewhere during the visit, does dad's car have top tether anchors?
In this situation I would think that a 6 year old being too close to an active airbag is a greater risk than a 2.5 year old ff in a top tethered seat.
If there are no top tethers then I would try to find another seat if possible for your ds to ride in rf like a scenera. Perhaps if you could provide a scenera your ds then the 6 year old could ride up front in the radian? I just really hate to think of such a small child in the front seat though. That's a tough one.

DahliaRW · Feb 17, 2011

I agree with abigaylebelle.

lovemybabies924 · Feb 17, 2011

honestly if thats gonna be happening a lot i would get a scenera40RF like the PP said and maybe casually slip him a $12 harmony booster and say something like "this is so u dont get a ticket"

(for the poor 6yo in the front)

henrietta · Feb 17, 2011

I can totally see why you don't want to even give him the idea that you could forward face your son, but I can also see that no one wants to increase the risk to another child.

Any chance you can install the Radian in the middle seat in the back? Or buy a 40 lb Scenera if your son still fits in it rearfacing?

No one wants to increase the risk to another child...but (and this isn't that nice of me) he's the one who thinks it's okay for a 6 yr old to ride in the front seat, in front of an active airbag, and without a booster seat. He's already increased the risks to this child tremendously. The fact is that he has *4* kids, all too young to be in the front seat and/or out of seats, so maybe he should consider leaving one w/a sitter while he picks up another or get a different vehicle that will safely transport 4 kids.

This is something that used to drive me nuts about one of my friends--she had 3 kids, yet still bought a sports car that only had 2 seatbelts in the back.

I know you can't change any of that--but your child is your first priority.

GL!

henrietta

Mama Jo · Feb 17, 2011

I'm not going to buy a Scenera because have a RA55 on its way to me for this very reason. And that is why this is the only and last time this will come up. The RA55 will fit better where I need to have it installed.

I am dropping DS off at his dad's house, but they will probably go to the park and to his mom's house. Neither place is too terribly far.

There will be a total of 4 kids in the car - the 6 yr old in the front seat; my DS in his RN; a 5 yr old and a 4 yr old in backless boosters. The 6 yr old is not in a seat because she legally does not have to, so I can't use the ticket excuse and try to slip him a backless booster. And because the front seat is the last available seat in the vehicle, she can legally sit there as well. (Even though I think he lets her sit there even when there's room in the back...) But it's out of my control, and I've begged and pleaded with him until I'm blue in the face, but he doesn't get it and I'm not changing his mind.

But I'm lucky he follows my carseat rules for my DS. He hasn't argued with me about it yet - probably because I save him the trouble of having to install the carseat and I do it for him lol. But I just don't want to give him any ideas... I'm afraid if I stick DS ff, he'll argue with me next time I try to rf him.

There's no good solution here... it's a lose-lose situation. I guess I'll just see if there's a TA for that seat and make my final decision tomorrow. I better double check and make sure I have the SS just in case...

hrice · Feb 17, 2011

Are their airbags in the front or can they be deactivated with a key? I didn't see anywhere that this was addressed or what vehicle he has.

DaniChildcare · Feb 17, 2011

I don't know anything about his car, but, is it possible the car has "smart airbags?" - (my car has airbags that are on a sensor, that only turn on when a person (or object) is over a certain weight (i believe 75 or 80lbs?) just a thought

Not that it makes the situation all that much better, but honestly, i would probably go about it this way:

"I'm going to install DS's car seat in FF this week so that your 6yo isn't pushed so far forward, as i'm worried about him being so close to the airbag with THIS (emphasis on THIS) seat. I have ordered a different seat for your car, to avoid this problem in the future."

On the flip side, would it be possible to install the radian RF in the middle or will it hit the seats? That may solve your problem (if it installs correctly?)

vangelder03 · Feb 17, 2011

is it safe to have your son in the car if the other kids are just in seatbelts
if they were in an accident wouldn't the other kids bounce around and hit him

wvmommy007 · Feb 18, 2011

Will the RN fit behind the driver's seat? Can it be braced on the driver's side?

Mama Jo · Feb 18, 2011

Ok, I made it work. I was able to get it a little more upright than usual behind the passenger seat, and I reclined the passenger seat just a little and pushed the head rest up slightly so the top of the RN fit right in between the top of the seat and the headrest. I didn't have to move the seat as far forward as I'm used to doing.

To answer your questions anyway...

The airbags do not have sensors, which is both good and bad - good because it makes it ok for the RN to touch the seat; bad because it would go off in a collision with the 6 yr old in the front seat.

Dad won't let me put it behind the driver's seat because it doesn't allow him enough room. He also doesn't want it in the middle seat because he says it gets in the way. And I feel stupid, but I honestly have no idea what kind of car it is. It's black. lol

As far as being safe with the other kids in the car - although they're not as safe as they should be, they're mostly within the guidelines of the law. The 4 and 5 yr olds are in backless boosters, and the 6 year old is in a seatbelt. I say 'mostly' because I just today realized that the middle seat is lapbelt only... I knew that, because I'd tried installing the RN with it, but I just made the connection today that one of the boostered kids will actually be using that seat. I offered to try to put my backup RN65, which I also have in my van, in the middle seat for the 4 yr old, but he didn't want it. I also offered to trade cars with him for the day and just let him use my van - I have a FN booster, 2 RN's, and a backless Turbo already in there, so each kid would have a seat - but he didn't want to.

Whatever.... I've done what I can do, and my kid's seat is safely installed....

Kat_Momof3 · Feb 18, 2011

I think this is a situation where there is no GREAT answer... but the best answer for all the kids involved to me would be this.

approach him... CAREFULLY about using a backless booster for the 6yr old... on the basis of belt fit.

but first (and most important)... I would just not be comfortable letting a 4yr old ride in a lap-only belt. I would rather put the 2yr old in the middle forward facing. forward facing, while not AS safe as rearfacing, is still SAFE... and the 4yr old needs a shoulderbelt (and if it doesn't fit, then 4yr old needs a highback booster)

Mama Jo · Feb 18, 2011

Yeah... that probably coulda worked. It didn't really hit me about the lapbelt only until after I had DS' seat installed rf on the side, so I never even considered that option.

Although there's no TA in the middle, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about putting the RN ff with a 2 yr old without it being tethered... Comparitively speaking, it's probably better than a 4 yr old in a lapbelt and a backless booster, but I'm not sure if I would have done it even if I'd thought about it... I just don't know... I'm pretty sure the 4 yr old sits in the middle even when both outboard seats are available, and there's not much I can do about that.

He's not going to put the 6 yr old in a booster in his car. It won't matter what I say or how I say, he won't do it.

hrice · Feb 18, 2011

Mama Jo said:
Yeah... that probably coulda worked. It didn't really hit me about the lapbelt only until after I had DS' seat installed rf on the side, so I never even considered that option.

Although there's no TA in the middle, so I'm not sure how I'd feel about putting the RN ff with a 2 yr old without it being tethered... Comparitively speaking, it's probably better than a 4 yr old in a lapbelt and a backless booster, but I'm not sure if I would have done it even if I'd thought about it... I just don't know... I'm pretty sure the 4 yr old sits in the middle even when both outboard seats are available, and there's not much I can do about that.

He's not going to put the 6 yr old in a booster in his car. It won't matter what I say or how I say, he won't do it.

RNs tested very well without top tether. I would rather see a 2 yr old FF center without top tether than a 4 year old with a booster and lap only belt.

Mama Jo · Feb 18, 2011

If all 4 were my kids and I was driving, the setup would be way different. Way different. But like I said, ff DS in the middle honestly didn't cross my mind at the time - I was too focused on making it fit passenger side. And this won't likely come up again because my RA55 will be delivered before he goes to his dad's next. It should be small enough that dad will be more ok with that one being rf in the middle. But as far as how the seats are set up in the car now, I can't change it at this point...

DahliaRW · Feb 18, 2011

vangelder03 said:
is it safe to have your son in the car if the other kids are just in seatbelts
if they were in an accident wouldn't the other kids bounce around and hit him

Even with seatbelts, they won't bounce around. The other kids could sustain injuries, but the seatbelts will keep them from being a projectile. The biggest risk might be submarining, but at that point they are going down, probably not going to get completely out of the belt, and they aren't going to go flying around.

Too bad he cares so little about their safety, though.

Glad you found an ok solution for now OP, for your son at least.

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