Tether part # for 2002 Grand Caravan

Please stay on topic with the thread. The original post was regarding a tether anchor setup.

Frankly, after hearing that, I too, am concerned that they just did that to get rid of you. Retrofits are usually bolts screwed directly into the frame of the vehicle. The authors of the LATCH and Tether manual spend absurd amounts of time hounding vehicle manufacturers for correct information to include in the manual. Sure, there are typos, but you can sure bet that we techs find it along the way and report it to other techs and the authors as we find it. I haven't heard anything about typos for the 2002 Grand Caravan, so I think that if the book says there aren't any retrofits, there aren't any and the dealer is incorrect.

FWIW, the trusted president of Britax a few years ago told us at ParentsPlace that the D-ring used for rear-facing could not be used for forward-facing tethering because it had only crash-tested to a limit of 200 lbs. Remember our famous math equation that we like to use: force = weight x speed. A 40 lb. child in a 30 mph crash will put 1200 lbs. of force on that car seat. Even though the tether is supplementary, how much force exactly is getting through to the tether? I don't know. I don't think that number has ever been released.

Frankly, after hearing that, I too, am concerned that they just did that to get rid of you.

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I think you're right. if the answer was really appropriate, they would have given it to you right away. working at a car dealer, I've seen customer's told things on many subjects(not child seats though) just to make them happy/go away..... even if the answer is not legit/smart.

I happened to be in a class taught by Sue Emery, one of the writers of the LATCH manual today. I asked her if I could get tether anchors installed in my 2002 Grand Caravan, on the outboard seats. Her answer was a resounding NO! I would trust the LATCH manual writers way before some dude at the car dealership. The LATCH writers have had a lot of communication with the car engineers on what is acceptable and what is not. They REALLY know their stuff.
Renee
BTW - if you read here Sue, thanks for a great class today!

stevel said:

I think you're right. if the answer was really appropriate, they would have given it to you right away. working at a car dealer, I've seen customer's told things on many subjects(not child seats though) just to make them happy/go away..... even if the answer is not legit/smart.

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I don't mean to be argumentative, but they gave me that part right away... When I called to have 3 tether installed on my friends van & the last 2 on mine, they asked for the vin numbers because they said the parts are different for different van years... They ordered this part off of my vin number & the seating placements I was asking for... I also saw the parts they ordered for my friends vehicle, which were the screws & metal anchors that bolt to the floor...

Is there any way this could be proved to be ok (in the minds of the techs here)? I don't currently need to use those anchors anyway & I won't need to until I start caring for my nephew & his baby sis/bro till fall... & I suppose even then I could put the rfing baby in the back corner (so I wouldn't need that tether)

Is it possible that the latch manual will be updated & the parts will then be included? It just seems really strange that this part could be ordered & installed (it had directions to install it like this, this installation wasn't just made up by the dealership or myself)

Or are we thinking this is another screw-up on the part of chrysler (similar to the gen 3 belts)? like they made these tether anchors without permission from the folks that govern the latch rules? How do I go about finding out more info on this? Is the testing of the tethers public information? Who governs the latch rules? Do they have a public email address or phone number? These parts were put in my vehicle with no argument, so if they are not ok/safe to use, I'd really love to get to the bottom of this!

(btw, I did know that my seatbelts are gen 3 & that chrysler will replace them with a brand new set of gen 3 seatbelts... & we have recently looked at sienna vans... & we'd love to buy one, but we also love to have electricity & eat!! I would never assume that because someone doesn't bring up the seatbelts failing issue every time I mention the make/model of my vehicle, it was because they didn't care about my/my family's safety! In fact, the way I see it, many people spend much of their free time here on this board with the sole hope of keeping people they don't even know safe! )

Perhaps you could ask the manufacturer or the dealer how much weight load the tether anchors that were added are rated for and how much the pre-installed ones are rated for.

The LATCH manual has been updated three times since your van was made (2003, 2005, 2007). Every single one specifies that tether anchors can NOT be retrofitted. I would not trust that set up for my child.

skaterbabscpst said:

The LATCH manual has been updated three times since your van was made (2003, 2005, 2007). Every single one specifies that tether anchors can NOT be retrofitted. I would not trust that set up for my child.

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:thumbsup: :yeahthat:

2 quick questions. 1. are you saying that my infant daughter in my 2001 caravan would be safer installed with the latch thing in the seat? 2. about how much would it cost to upgrade to gen 4 latches? It appears my van has all gen 3. I had no idea about any of this.

Renee

It's not LATCH, it's the seatbelt buckle and unfortunately all you can do is complain to NHTSA. If you ask the dealer to replace them, you'll get another set of gen3 belts. Getting gen 4 belts is almost impossible.

That said, despite the opinions presented by some in this thread, I would not suggest to you that you need to go out and replace your vehicle. My Jeep also has Gen 3 belts and it's my primary driver. What I do however is limit projectiles and the buckle for my daughter's seat is turned backwards so the latch is not exposed.

Ok, thank you very much.

Renee

i still wouldn't trust the gen 3 seatbelts. if i had no other option than driving a vehicle with them, i'd avoid driving as much as possible. otherwise, i'd seek out atleast another vehicle compatible with my needs and comparible on the rest of the safety issues as one of the gen 3 seatbelt vehicles that was within my budget, even if it meant an older used vehicle. my daughter won't be riding in my parents' caravan with the gen 3 belts ever.

i'm a stickler for people doing the "right thing". and in this case didge/chrysler has not and it can very well have a major impact on numerous innocent people who rely on their vehicles for transportation (the ones with gen 3 belts). since they have continued to be so arrogant and refuse to recall those belts, to me, that's a huge and very valid reason to basically boycott their products if at all possible.

and if you can't afford to change the vehicle now, then i'd just keep a lawyer's phone number handy in case, and i hope it never happens, but just in case something ever does happen. then by all means, sue the living daylights out of dodge/chrysler for negligence. :thumbsup:

anysia said:

i still wouldn't trust the gen 3 seatbelts. if i had no other option than driving a vehicle with them, i'd avoid driving as much as possible. otherwise, i'd seek out atleast another vehicle compatible with my needs and comparible on the rest of the safety issues as one of the gen 3 seatbelt vehicles that was within my budget, even if it meant an older used vehicle. my daughter won't be riding in my parents' caravan with the gen 3 belts ever.

i'm a stickler for people doing the "right thing". and in this case didge/chrysler has not and it can very well have a major impact on numerous innocent people who rely on their vehicles for transportation (the ones with gen 3 belts). since they have continued to be so arrogant and refuse to recall those belts, to me, that's a huge and very valid reason to basically boycott their products if at all possible.

and if you can't afford to change the vehicle now, then i'd just keep a lawyer's phone number handy in case, and i hope it never happens, but just in case something ever does happen. then by all means, sue the living daylights out of dodge/chrysler for negligence. :thumbsup:

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Amen.
I feel the same way about this.
We're actually considering ditching our van (w/gen3 belts) for a new SAFER vehicle - even if that means taking on a car payment - which we're usually completely against.

But these are special circumstances... I'm never compromising safety again.

Hello:

Jennifer and Sonja: I have the exact same situation as you. I have 11 month old twins that I currently seat rfing in the 3rd row and a 2.5 year old ffing in the middle seat. I am now planning to turn my convertible rfing car seats (for the twins in the 3rd row)forward in my 02 Grand Caravan.

This week I went to the dealer and was given the same info as you, that the D-ring tether strap was the approved top tether for the 3rd row, this make/model. Seemed suspicious, so here I am searching online for answers!

I have 2 questions:
To Jennifer and Sonja: after reading this post, are either of you using the D-ring from the dealer for those rear seat top tethers OR did you find other new information?

SpokaneCPST: What did Sue Emery suggest? No top tether at all?? Just use the lower anchor for the 3rd row? OR have I completed mis-understood ...

Thanks for your help!

Debbie - Confused but hopeful to find answers!

Sorry re my previous post I should clarify where the children are seated now...

I have 11 month old twins that I currently seat rfing in the 3rd row and a 2.5 year old ffing in the 2nd row passenger side. I have taken out the 2nd row drivers side seat for convenience. I am now planning to turn my rfing convertible car seats (for the twins in the 3rd row)forward in my 02 Grand Caravan.

Jennifer, Sonja and SpokaneCPST - I look forward to your responses.

thanks!

Debbie

Honestly, the Gen3 seatbelt issue is such a nonissue that the CPS curriculum doesn't even mention them - yet seats in airplanes has an entire chapter. This panic is not based in a real understanding of risk assesment.

skaterbabscpst said:

Honestly, the Gen3 seatbelt issue is such a nonissue that the CPS curriculum doesn't even mention them - yet seats in airplanes has an entire chapter. This panic is not based in a real understanding of risk assesment.

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I think that curriculum might be influenced a lot by the NHTSA. And if they don't have an issue with Gen 3 belts - then it won't get addressed.

Hi Debbie-

If at all possible, I'd recommend keeping the kiddos rear-facing until the limits of the seats... then they are safer & you don't have to worry about the Chrysler tether issue yet. Zander road rfing until a month ago, when he outgrew the rfing weight of his scenera. (Sorry my signature picture here isn't updated, we've been too busy with baby to be here much lately).

As for my tethers, they have been used a few times when other people's kiddoes ride in my car, (two of which are techs & frequent this board). Also when I took my tech class this summer & asked the instructor about this, she said it sounded like it was just missing from the latch manual, but should be fine. Her comment was: Chrysler had the part & the instructions; don't believe everything you read online.

When I called Chrysler (spent a few hours calling different numbers), no one knew what tethers even were for the most part... (other then the car safety seat hotlines & they didn't know about Chrysler products) & all Chrysler could say was if we have the part & a dealership installed it, then what's the problem? No one I talked to understood the concern...

The best way to avoid the need to top tethers in your 3rd row for now is to keep those babies rear-facing. Depending on their size, you could have a long time before needing to worry about tethers. Are you aware of the benefits of keeping toddlers rear-facing past 1 year/20 pounds? Here are some links to read on this subject:
http://www.freewebs.com/sacredjourneys/newbornpreschool.htm
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx

Perhaps you will be in a different vehicle by the time your twins outgrow their seats rear-facing. At any rate, seats in the US must pass all crash testing installed with a lap belt only - not top tether is required. Tethering makes the seat even safer, but it is SAFE without the top tether. If you have Britax seats and install them with the lap/shoulder belts, the shoulder belt acts somewhat like the top tether if it is placed in the forward facing lockoff. It holds the seat closer to the top.

In answer to your question - Sue suggested installing without the top tether, as tethers cannot be installed in vehicles that already have them.

Are you in the US or Canada? I supposed its possible that Canadian models can be retrofitted since top tethering is required in Canada.

I don't know if that is helpful, but I hope so!
Renee

Has anyone looked this up in the 2007 LATCH manual? I only have the 2005. It sure would be nice to have the ability to add more tethers to newer cars!
Renee