Travelling from Canada to Israel with Britax Boulevard

cdnchick

New member
Hi,

I've been doing quite a bit of car seat research, but I'm still a little lost, so hopefully someone here can help me.

DD is currently 5 months and 17 lbs. We've switched her from her infant carseat to a Britax Boulevard this week (not because of her size, but because we wanted her to get used to it.

In late April, we'll be travelling from Canada to Israel. We've purchased a seat for her on the plane, and I've read to flip the female end of the seatbelt when installing it to make sure we can easily unclip it when deplaning. Is this correct? I'm not sure if she'll be RF or FFing at that point, it depends on her weight.

I'm not sure what to expect in Israel though. I plan on keeping her RFing in the back seat of the car (we'll be in several cars during our visit there), but will there be a LATCH system to attach it to, or do I use the seatbelt? Will I need a locking clip? If I do, where do I get one?

I'd like this to be as low stress of a trip as possible, it's already a little daunting to be on a plane with an eight month old for 12 hours.
 
ADS

skaterbabs

Well-known member
I would strongly recommend using your infant seat on the trip if she still fits. You'll find it's easier that way. I'd even consider getting an infant seat with a higher weight limit in this situation. She absolutely should not be forward facing, she's far too young. Children under the age of two are at a significantly increased risk is catastrophic injuries when forward facing.

I'm not familiar with cars in Israel, but there are others on the forum that are.
 

mommycat

Well-known member
I got the impression that OP was saying DD might be FF on the plane only depending on weight (?). In the car, I would definitely keep her RF as long as she still fits the seat's limits for RF, years to come. At only 8 months though, it would still be going against the seat's manual/stickers to put the baby FF, even on the plane. I would try to book a bulkhead row so that you don't need to worry about the person in front of you getting huffy for not being able to recline their seat, and put the carseat in RF. She will sleep better that way, you will be able to see her and interact with her easily, toys will not constantly be rolling down under your seats, etc. AND it will be in accordance with your manual. I would also ask for a seatbelt extender and shorten the plane seat's buckle all the way then use the extender to install (flipped upside down for FF). That way there is always a buckle on the outside of the seat to make it easier to unbuckle. Installing RF is easier though, since the belt path is open under the baby's feet and easy to access. Also print out the carseat info that applies to your airline, etc in case of mis-informed/idiot flight crew, so that you have documentation to show them in case someone tries to tell you to check your seat or something.

What airline are you flying with? US and Canadian airlines do allow a child seat to be used but many international carriers do not, even if you buy a seat. You also need to be careful in case you booked with a US/Cdn airline but some of your trip may be a code share with another airline, in which case the carseat rules that apply for that leg of your trip will be the foreign airline's rules, not the one you booked under.

The cars are very likely to not have ISOFIX (EU version of LATCH, often with no top tether anchor) and also likely to have belts that don't lock. A lapbelt only with a locking latchplate would be a simple way to install, but if you need to use a non-locking belt, the BV happens to have built-in lock-offs, so you can just use those. Please review the BV manual and try these out before you head out.

I would also suggest that you use the bucket if DD still fits, though. It would be easier to get around, and you could bring a snap'n'go or your stroller to use the seat as a stroller. If your infant seat happened to have a base with a lockoff (like the Graco SnugRide35) I would be tempted to bring that despite the extra weight since it is so very easy to install in any seatbelt.

I'm sure the trip will be fine, though, especially if you plan it out well. Being able to use the carseat on the plane makes a huge difference since it turns the strange plane into a safe, known environment where she already expects to be sitting for a while.
 

cdnchick

New member
Yes, DD would be FFing on the plane only. We're flying Air Canada, and the bulkhead seats are narrower due to the tray so I was told the carseat wouldn't fit there. I'll try the Britax RFing on the plane and see how it fits, but I hesitate to impinge on the seat in front of her. 12.5 hours of sitting bolt upright is a long time, especially when almost everyone sleeps on this flight.

DD has about 1" left before she maxes out her infant seat (a chicco keyfit), she's growing like a weed, so she'll definitely be too big by April. That's why we wanted her to get used to the Britax early. We've got a gogo kids travelmate to help get us through the airport and customs with the Britax.

At the risk of sounding stupid - a locking latchplate, that's what most cars have here right? Where you pull the seatbelt out all the way and then it goes click click click? And if the seatbelt doesn't have that feature I can use the Britax lock-offs?
 

mommycat

Well-known member
Ok, a couple of questions:
1. are you sure the flights are 100% air canada vs codeshares? If you have the tickets, check for something that says "Operated by: XYZ Airline". Our tickets still had the code share flights labelled as an Air Canada flight number "AC####" but included the "operated by" line.
2. What planes does your ticket specify? You can check seat widths on seatguru.com to get an idea of how the seat will install. Maybe someone else who has flown with the BV will be able to say how it fit. Is it the older style BV or the new model BV65?
3. If your seat says that you have to be 1yo and #lbs to FF, then FF an 8mo is not allowed even if she is #lbs. Consider that she will be sitting for 12 hours in a seat which will be more upright when FF, possibly sleeping with head flop, while she would be quite comfortable RF. Don't sacrifice your comfort and your DD's comfort/safety for a random stranger's comfort. Work with the flight staff if there is an issue, maybe they can move either you or the pass in front of you. Hopefully the flight will not be booked 100% full. You can call AC CS and check on how full the flight is as the time draws closer.
 

mommycat

Well-known member
At the risk of sounding stupid - a locking latchplate, that's what most cars have here right? Where you pull the seatbelt out all the way and then it goes click click click? And if the seatbelt doesn't have that feature I can use the Britax lock-offs?
You've got it almost right. Here's the "quick" tutorial: the pull-out-click-click-click is a seatbelt that locks at the retractor by switching it from ELR (emergency locking only) to a locked belt. The locking latchplate I mentioned is the ones you see on lapbelts, where the tail end of the belt slides through the big solid buckle that keeps it locked at a certain length until you lift the tab on the buckle to loosen. Some lap/shoulder belts also lock at the latchplate with a cinching style latchplate. You will likely see just ELR retractors on L/S belts in all 3 positions, or 2 ELR belts with the lapbelt with a locking latchplate in the center.

The short answer is yes, if the seatbelt doesn't lock in any other way, then you just use the lock-offs provided on the seat.
 

cdnchick

New member
The flight is 100% Air Canada. Seatguru says the bulkhead seats are narrower due to the trays, but it doesn't say *how* much narrower. We've got the older Boulevard. I'm going to check the manual on the Boulevard when DD goes down for her nap, for age/weight restrictions on FFing.

Thanks for your help, I don't mean to sound like I'm being obstinate, I'm just trying to find a way to make this all work with maximum safety and minimum fuss.
 

mommycat

Well-known member
No problem, I get it. We did the trip to Europe in 2009 with two kids in seats and I researched and agonized and waffled over seats forever. It is a scary thing when it's hard to get all the info up front. It's great that your flights are all AC, that at least makes it a lot easier to know what you will be dealing with and hopefully have accomodating flight staff.

I had installed our Scenera on one leg of our flight RF, the 2-hr hop from Hfx to TO, and the man in front of the seat kept trying to recline his seat like he expected different results (he didn't get up to check or say anything though). He was able to get the seat reclined an inch or two but not more than that. I can see how it might have been annoying, but well, it is what it is. Are you travelling with 2 adults as well as baby? Maybe you can book your seats so that one of you will sit in front of the carseat.

FF on the plane IMpersonalO would not necessarily be the end of the world, especially in recline mode, but for an <1yo baby I would worry about head flop, airway being closed off and SIDS. Something else to consider.
 

K's Mama

New member
We just flew with our Marathon and it fit fine in the bulk head seats - I thought the Boulevard had the same footprint, but not positive. We had no problem using our seat on our flights, BUT the flight crew would absolutely NOT let a convertable seat be used RF'ing - so take that into consideration. I was told (even though I don't think it's correct that only infant seats were allowed to be used RF'ing. I tried arguing it but the flight attendant absolutely would not budge on the issue. And since DS is 21 months I didn't press the issue too much. So, if you want your DD RF'ing on the plane I'd consider using a bucket seat. Otherwise you may have problems...

eta: I always ask for a seatbelt extender for installing the seat - that way I can insure that it will be quick and easy to get the seat out. I tried to flip the buckle this last time but I still felt like it was in a hard to access place (didn't use the extender on our very first trip and it was extrememly difficult and painful to unlatch the seat...)
 

mommycat

Well-known member
It is absolutely not true that only infant seats can RF on the plane. I would have shown the stickers on the seat (and the manual section for airplane use if avaiable) where it says it can be used RF to ## lbs and ##height and say that your child fits. Not a huge deal for a 21mo who is just over the FF limits, but for a child who is under the min weight to FF, and especially with a baby who is under 1yo... the stickers will say that FF mode cannot be used for a child under 1yo and that they have to be 20/22lbs depending on the seat, and you can point out to the FA that they are asking you to use your seat against manufacturer's instructions and making your child unsafe. Ask them to get their manual and show you where it says that it has to go FF.

Here's the AC carseat info from their website (red bolding mine):
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/before/youngtravellers/infant-child.html
Infant (under age 2)
* An infant as young as 7 (seven) days can travel on an Air Canada flight.
* Only one infant is permitted per adult passenger (16 years of age or older).
* Whenever the seat belt sign is on:
- An infant seated on a parent's lap must be held securely;
- An infant for whom a seat is purchased must be properly secured in an approved child restraint device (see ‘Child restraint policy' below).

Child restraint policy

Air Canada is bound by Transport Canada regulations with regards to acceptable child restraint devices (with the exception of the CARES™ child restraint device). Only approved child restraint devices can be used on board Air Canada aircraft.

All approved devices must fit between the armrests of the seat. They must be installed according to the directions on the device and secured using the seat belt fitted on the aircraft seat. For safety reasons, child restraint devices are not permitted in the Executive First Suites.

Child safety seats accepted for in-flight use:
* Models manufactured in Canada after January 1, 1981 must bear the National Safety Mark, which indicates the number of the standard(s) to which the restraint device conforms: CMVSS 213 for a child restraint device or 213.1 for an infant restraint device;
* Models manufactured to United States standards:
Models manufactured between January 1, 1981 and February 25, 1985 must bear the following label:
"This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."
Models manufactured on or after February 26, 1985 must bear the following two labels:
"This child restraint system conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards" and "THIS RESTRAINT IS CERTIFIED FOR USE IN MOTOR VEHICLES AND AIRCRAFT" (in red lettering).
* Foreign-built car seats must adhere to Transport Canada regulations.
* CARES™ child restraint devices: CARES™ child restraint devices are designed for children ages 1 to 4, weighing between 10-20 kg (22-44 lbs), whose height is 100 cm (40 inches) or less and who are capable of sitting upright. They must be used within the limitations specified by the manufacturer (as indicated on the label), and must display the following:
- Legible CARES™ label with approval standards (FAA approved in accordance with 14 CFR 21.305 (d) and approved for aircraft use only).
- Part number 4082-1 on label
- Please note that CARES™ child restraint devices cannot be installed in the Executive First Suite.

Devices not accepted for in-flight use:
* booster seats* and belly loops,
* vest or harness type devices,
* Little Cargo® seats (notwithstanding any claims from manufacturer(s) that they are approved for use in aircraft).

Important rules and restrictions
* An infant for whom a seat has been purchased must be properly secured in an approved child restraint device (see regulations above).
* Weight restrictions are specified on all child restraint devices. Aft-facing devices are generally restricted to babies weighing less than 9 kg (20 lb), whereas forward-facing devices are generally restricted to babies or children weighing 9 to fewer than 30 kg (20 to 65 lb). <-- this does not say they HAVE to be FF at 20lbs, it says that seats have their own rules, and "generally" gives the mins/maxes.
* A combination system (i.e. both a child restraint system and a booster cushion) is accepted for in-flight use provided it is used as a child restraint system and the internal harness system is installed, and all labelling requirements are met. It must not be used in-flight as a booster cushion*, with the internal harness system removed.
* A child restraint device (car seats, booster seats*) counts toward your baggage allowance when transported as checked baggage, unless the approved device is required onboard for seating the infant or child in his or her own paid seat.
* A restraint device that cannot be restrained due to size, design, or damage must be transported as checked baggage, as it cannot be stowed under the seats or in the overhead bins.
* Pouch-type infant carriers (e.g. SNUGLI®, Baby Hawk or Ergo) are allowed for use on Air Canada flights, except during take-off, landing, taxiing on the runway and at any time the seat belt sign is on.
* Passengers are asked to write their name and address on all devices with the use of an indelible (Sharpie-type) marker.

Please contact your travel agent or Air Canada Reservations for more information and possible exceptions to these rules (e.g. medical reasons).

*A booster seat (or cushion) is defined as a removable device for use in a vehicle for the purpose of seating in an elevated position a person whose mass is 18 kg or more. It is designed to be used with an automobile lap and shoulder belt and is therefore not approved for use in an aircraft.
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
Again, in this situation, I'd seriously consider purchasing an infant carrier with a higher weight limit. There are several that go to 30 lbs now, and a carrier & stroller make going through airports with an infant MUCH easier.
 

K's Mama

New member
It is absolutely not true that only infant seats can RF on the plane. I would have shown the stickers on the seat (and the manual section for airplane use if avaiable) where it says it can be used RF to ## lbs and ##height and say that your child fits. Not a huge deal for a 21mo who is just over the FF limits, but for a child who is under the min weight to FF, and especially with a baby who is under 1yo... the stickers will say that FF mode cannot be used for a child under 1yo and that they have to be 20/22lbs depending on the seat, and you can point out to the FA that they are asking you to use your seat against manufacturer's instructions and making your child unsafe. Ask them to get their manual and show you where it says that it has to go FF.

Here's the AC carseat info from their website (red bolding mine):
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/before/youngtravellers/infant-child.html

Oh - I know. Just saying that the flight crew would absolutely NOT let me use the seat RF'ing b/c it was a convertable. The one even said that they don't let *that kind of seat* ride RF'ing. Nothing I said or did would convince him so I gave up. Just thinking that it would probably just be easier for the OP to use an infant seat to avoid the arguement.
 

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