Need weaning advice for toddler

I need help. I'm getting more and more anxious to get my 20 (soon to be 21) month old, Lily, weaned. The nursing is getting more and more painful becuase I'm producing less and less so she's sucking harder to get anything.

But we also have issues with her "nursing manners" Try as I might, she won't keep her hands to herself. She wants to hold the boob like a hamburger and digs her little fingernails in. If I hold her hands, she kicks me or puts her feet in my face!

I KNOW that I am ready for her to be done. I used to think that I'd be sad, but after 4 1/2 years of either being pg or nursing, I no longer think I will be sad to let nursing go. I want to wear a normal bra!

Our other issue is sleep. She still wakes to nurse at 4 am, 5 am and is up at 6 am for the day. This is killing me. She sleeps with me; there is no longer room for DH in the bed and nobody gets any sleep (except for Lily) if the 3 of us are together, so DH has been sleeping in the family room for the last few months and we are DONE with that as well! We want our bed back.

I thought we were making progress a month ago. She slept 8 hrs on a mattress beside my bed. But then everybody got sick for 2-3 weeks and all of that progress went out the window. Now we're back to square one and I'm feeling desperate. I feel like cutting her off, cold turkey. But I know that would make her miserable for several days. I'm trying to shorten nursing sessions, but she fights being taken off and clamps down on me with her teeth! Right now I'm trying to distract her with chocolate chips whenever she asks for "num-nums" but that only works for about 5 minutes and I can't have her eating chocolate all day. What else can I do?

DH seems to think it might be easier when she gets a little more verbal - she's still using single words. And maybe when the last of her 2 yr. molars come thought (she has 1 so far). I don't know anymore. It feels like we're grasping at straws and nothing is working.

Sounds like you're a victim of LTL - Lazy Toddler Latch. Some of her behaviours are showing you SHE is not ready to wean yet, but there are some things you can do to make it easier for you, but they require consistancy. She is absolutely old enough to understand some basic rules.

1. remember when she was a baby and you would tell her to OPEN her mouth? Back then she didn't understand, but now she can. Remind her she needs to take the entire thing, not just the nipple.

2. Before a nursing session, set ground rules. Whatever ground rules you like. They can be rules regarding length of time the session will last, a prearranged "ending" word (All done now!), manners rules (no twiddling or we won't nurse!), location limitations ect.
Ours were:
-if the "mores" (Joyjoy's word for nursing/breasts) hurt, mommy will take them away.
-if she has "more", mommy gets to choose what's on TV (so, no watching Noggin while nursing!)
-teeth MUST be brushed BEFORE a nursing session
-she may not use her teeth. Yes, you may have to actually TELL her this - "When we have ___(her word for nursing), you may not use your teeth. If you do, ____ goes away."
-twiddling is not allowed
-acrobatics are not allowed

3. I allow Joyjoy to twiddle my tummy, and she will ask for it from time to time, usually when it's a time we are not nursing. She gets the closeness without actually being attached. She knows that if she pinches hard enough for it to hurt, I will not allow her to twiddle my tummy until she is gentle. If her nails start causing issues, they get cut.

4. You may try setting limits. "You may nurse ____, but after ____, no nursing until ____." We nigntweaned in January, and with Joyjoy I base it on the sun. "No more when the sun goes down." She doesn't tell time, but she understands that. You can try explaining to her "no nursing until the sun comes up" - but be prepared for a few hard nights. You'll need to prepare her a few days/weeks in advance. Night weaning actually gave me a level of relief from feeling touched out all the time, but I didn't night wean until after 3. I would not attempt it with an under-2 year old.


Hope that helps!

It does sound to me like you need to teach some nursing manners and probably night-wean for your sanity, but it also sounds like your dd isn't quite ready to be weaned altogether. I definately sympathize with the sleeping frustrations; my 3 yr old gave up sleeping for about a month when younger dd was born. During that newborn period, dh was actually getting less sleep than I was dealing with her. She likely understands a great deal more than she can say so I think you can set rules for nursing that she will understand.

Oh you poor thing! I completely understand why you're so miserable. Your daughter isn't being very considerate with you.

Just so you know, I have a 43 month old dd who would still happily nurse all day long if we hadn't instilled rules a long time ago. She's extremely strong willed (like mum & da) and loves her nursey. We're content now at 1x in the morning before we get up for the day. It's very relaxed and cosey during that flexible time. She goes to bed in her own room and about 80% of the time remains there past 5am. If she wakes during the night, I put her in a cot in our room.

What would help for you is to get your issues with her into a manageable categories. Quitting Cold Turkey would be complete hell for you both. Since you've been nursing 24/7 -- stopping would likely cause engorgement & might even affect your health such as mastitis, hormone shifts, and just sheer misery.

Establishing nursing etiquette & ending night nursing would be the best way to start.

Manners is easy, believe it or not. When she starts kneading or grabbing you in a way you dislike, tell her to 'stop' and demonstrate what she should do instead. If she keeps it up. Put her on the floor and walk away. Oh she'll scream bloody murder. Ignore it. When she calms down, explain again, she needs to treat mommy nicely or there will be no nursey (or whatever you call it). You can either let her nurse again, or wait until the next time you allow it. She'll quickly figure out that mummy really means it. Figure out when you want to nurse with her and shorten the nursing times. Be busy when you want to end a time like lunch -- read her a book or find something that interests her too.

Ceasing night nursing is more difficult. Exhaustion is hard to deal with. Start over with her sleeping near you in your room. Don't try to do a room changing at the same time you're quitting. It's too much for a huge battle. Whatever you did the first time before everyone got sick, do it again. It shouldn't be as problematic as before. There will be setbacks, but as soon as illness or teething is over, return back to the new habit.

I've gone on way too long, but I hope this gives you ideas. Oh and if you're getting sore, tell her you have an 'owie'. Sometimes putting bandaids over your breasts will help her see there's problems and she can be a little more gently respective of your body.

I started wearing normal bras last year around this time when dd was 2 1/2. We agreed no more daytime naps, so no more daytime nursing. It was marvelous giving up the nursing bra. But it took a long time before I was able to just sit down & relax with a book without her nagging me during the day.

I"m running on way too long. good luck & hugs

You've been given lots of good ideas-

We also did the "no more nursies til it's light" thing to night wean- and the little stinker got me up at 3 am to show me his night light! So we set a radio alarm- no nursies again til the music comes on. That was more successful. This was when he was almost 2. I'd set it at first for his normal time, then gradually I moved it forward until he wasn't nursing til 6, when we get up for the day. We also let him choose from the store a special "nigh-night sippy" that we kept water in by our bed and the novelty of it actually helped if he woke up earlier than the music.

The hardest nursings to give up were the morning and evening. For morning, we bought juice boxes, which he'd never had before. We really talked up how he would get a juice box in the morning instead of nursies, since he was getting so big his body didn't need nursies anymore. He was 2.5 by this point. Then for bedtime, I just gradually shortened the session until finally we were doing "rocker snuggles" instead of nursing in the rocker. He's 3 now and still loves to snuggle sideways in my lap like he's nursing.

About a week after the last night nursing, we had a "big kid party"- where we invited his friends over for "big kid food" like carrots, apples, and cookies. He thought it was pretty neat and loved the attention, but I'm sure it was bittersweet for him.

He told me not long after that he was going to be a big brother, so he'd save the nursies for his baby. I had never brought up the baby in relation to nursing because I didn't want him to feel jealous, he'd come to this conclusion on his own.

Best wishes! Probably the best thing for your sanity is to set nursing behavior limits- just eliminating those behaviors that hurt or annoy you may make nursing a more pleasant experience and allow you more patience in a gradual weaning process.

I agree with Skatr and Morganthe...it really doesnt sound like she is ready to wean completely. They gave great advice! Hopefully it will help you figure out what works best for you both. :thumbsup:

Momto2whosews said:

I'm trying to shorten nursing sessions, but she fights being taken off and clamps down on me with her teeth! Right now I'm trying to distract her with chocolate chips whenever she asks for "num-nums" but that only works for about 5 minutes and I can't have her eating chocolate all day. What else can I do?

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I didn't catch this before when I read your post. That is horrible for you! I'm twinging in sympathy. I remember dd trying to do the same thing at a younger age, when she didn't respond to my howl of pain immediately, I pushed her into my breast further which blocked her nose for breathing. (Also increases auriel than nipple area, so lessens pain)

She opened quickly then to catch a breath and then I was able to remove her. I think I only had to do that 2 times to stop that little power play maneuver because she'd get dumped on the floor and I'd leave without any more words. I'd be too furious and hurt. Safer to depart the room than try to use any discipline at that point. I'd have lost my temper and it would have been bad

Shunning technique works very well on my dd since she HATES being ignored. Later on, when we'd both calmed down (15 minutes) we'd have talk, kisses, & cuddles. But no more nursey until later.

hth gives a little hope to the biting issue. Poor you

Great advice already given!

I wear one of those rubber bracelets that are so popular. Zane loves to pull and twist on it while he nurses. Whenever he goes for flesh I just guide his hand back to the bracelet. Poor latch or any other hurting we try again for a good latch, if that doesn't work he gets down. He nurses better laying down and with no distractions.

Setting rules with nursing is no different than any other rules. It takes some practice and plenty of consistency, but kids will learn. Since nights are the toughest I'd work on that first, then cut down on day sessions. We're down to 1-3 times a day and sometimes not even that. I agree quiting cold turkey will hurt you both.

{{Hugs!}}

Thank you all! Just knowing that I'm not the last mother on earth nursing a toddler makes me feel that much better

I have definitely tried to establish nursing manners. Lily knows "no hands" but it only lasts for a few seconds and the little pinchers are back. I can control/distract the top hand, but she always works the lower hand in under my arm too and that one is harder to control. A few days ago she was just out of the bath and wanted to nurse, so I wrapped the towel around her and held it in the back so her hands were inside. It was like a little baby straight-jacket and it was the best nursing session we've had in a long time She already brings me pillows to nurse, so maybe I'll have her get me a blanket now too

As for getting her to let go, I've started countint to 3 and the last few times (last night, which I thought was a fluke, and this afternoon) she let go when I got to 2. The funny thing was that she stuck her own finger in the corner of her mouth when she let go! LOL!

You've all given me great advice. I think I know what I have to do now. I also think I'll be happy just to give up a few of the daytime nursings and the 4 & 5 am ones for the time being. She's obviously not ready to give it up for good yet. I put her back on the mattress beside my bed (calling it the big girl bed now) last night but she only lasted 1 1/2 hrs. I guess it's a start though.

Thanks again.

Yay! See, all you need is a little support and good advice. :thumbsup: Im glad you got everything figured out.

Sounds like you got a lot of good advice. I was going crazy with the constant nursing a few months back but knew my DD and I were both not ready to wean her. I had a goal to just cut back her nursings during the day to 3 or 4 (she was nursing 8-12 times a day!! ) Once we cut down to 4 (with a couple rough days while she learned that she didn't get to nurse anytime she wanted anymore) it was easy to cut down to 3, and then to 2. Now she only nurses right before bed and a couple times at night (which I don't mind since we co-sleep and most times I don't even wake up to notice).

It had absolutely saved my sanity. I could keep nursing her like this for another year or more - and probably will (older DD was weaned at 3).

It sounds like she does need to learn some nursing manners. If DD is pinching or putting her feet in my face or trying to remove my nose with her hands, the nursing ends. Though I actually find that she really really appreciates nursing a lot more now that she doesn't get it all day long. Her favorite time of the day is nursing right before bed and she is just a sweet nicely behaved little thing because she is just so happy to be getting "buoy".

Good luck. I hope you find something that works for you guys!

When Leila started such behaviors, I just stood up saying "You must be done already -- I'll be happy to nurse you when you're calm".... Then I would show her what calm looks, sounds & feels like. Sometimes that last bit needed a break 1st for her to be able to focus if she was already upset that I stopped the nursing short. Within a couple weeks she developed very good nursing manners & we began nursing only during the day, then only when we were at home, then only in her bedroom. Still, because of my family history of breast cancer + digestive diseases, I allowed her to self wean (for my protection against cancer & her protection against Crohns): my body stopped producing milk shortly after her 4th birthday. It's important that you appreciate that YOU are the only one who knows inside yourself what, when & how to teach kiddo to treat you with respect during this reciprocal relationship so that she can learn for her own self what it means to expect respect for herself as well

*hugs mama* I am going though similar srtuggles with my toddler. But I still enjoy nursing when everything calms down and he is still and looks up at me lovingly.

I hope things get better for you soon.

I'm not a nursing mama yet but I'm currently a nanny to an extended BF kiddo who is almost 13mos. His mom and I were talking today and she mentioned that he's nursing more and that she has more milk than when he was younger. Did any other mamas of nursing toddlers notice that their kids started nursing more after they turned one?

And also :thumbsup: for all the extended BF around here. I love that I found a place that combines AP concepts(CDing, extended BFing, baby wearing, Co-sleeping, etc.) and car safety!

LeeLi said:

I'm not a nursing mama yet but I'm currently a nanny to an extended BF kiddo who is almost 13mos. His mom and I were talking today and she mentioned that he's nursing more and that she has more milk than when he was younger. Did any other mamas of nursing toddlers notice that their kids started nursing more after they turned one?

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DD experiences phases where she nurses much more efficiently in the same time frame than others. I'd produce more milk that she'd consume just as speedily. Then she'd switch back to a more relaxed & less intense which would decrease the production. Usually it was when she was about to grow or when she was sick. If I had just decided to stop nursing at one of those points, it would have been very painful. We just went through one of these episodes 3 weeks ago or so.

Just remembering --- at 13 months, dd was just as intense with her feeding as at 7 months. Basically about every 3 hours, occasionally more, but often less. She could take in more then of course than at the younger age. She didn't slow down in her nursing until about 18 months when she was able to go through the night without needing sustinance. But she also grew just over 6 inches btwn 12-18 months, and only 3 inches from 18-24 months.
DD started out in height at under the third percentile. By 18 months, she was over the 75th and 24 months, she hit the 95th and has remained above there ever since. She was GROWING. No longer my tiny baby, she wears 5 and now some 6s at 3 1/2.

Yep twice. We went from feeding on one side to 2 sides about the time they turned one.

LeeLi said:

I'm not a nursing mama yet but I'm currently a nanny to an extended BF kiddo who is almost 13mos. His mom and I were talking today and she mentioned that he's nursing more and that she has more milk than when he was younger. Did any other mamas of nursing toddlers notice that their kids started nursing more after they turned one?

And also :thumbsup: for all the extended BF around here. I love that I found a place that combines AP concepts(CDing, extended BFing, baby wearing, Co-sleeping, etc.) and car safety!

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I have a 27 month old who earlier this year was still nursing 3-4 times a night (although we were weaned during the day - we had basically only nursed at night for months becasue I work and am gone from the house 12 hours a day). I am pg, so this probably helped the weaning process for me (since I was sore and impatient and determined, and maybe he doesn't like the taste?), but we are now down to 1 or sometimes NO nursing sessions most days. He likes to latch before bedtime (though he no longer nurses, just comfort sucks for a little bit) and very occasionally in the night or morning.

I have also used the trick where you pull them in to your breast if they bite or won't let go. It works well because they HAVE to let go to breathe. And I also agree with ending the nursing session right away if there is behaviour you don't want. They will learn quickly which actions have that undesirable result!

I love your counting to 3 technique - you can tell she is learning already that this means mommy is DONE. I use "all done" instead, and tap his cheek with my finger to remind him if he doesn't let go right away. Though after a couple of weeks, when I say all done, he opens up with a smack and grins at me. We are very close to being done now.

I have always had him in his own room, just moved myself in there instead. If you have a room for her, maybe you could try to put a twin mattress in there and move in with her? I found I could nurse my son and he would go to sleep, and then I could get up and go sleep in my OWN bed (with my husband!) until the next time he woke up and called for me. Once I started dragging myself out to my own bed instead of just sleeping in his room, he started sleeping better and not waking for as many night feeds (he couldn't smell me and woke less, maybe?). I keep a sippy of water where he knows he can find it and this helped some as well. Now sometimes I hear him sucking back some water at night, but he doesn't need me.

As far as daytime distractions, maybe instead of chocolate chips offer to play with a toy she loves or read a book she really likes? Those may be a good trade and won't add the extra calories and caffeine. I avoided nursing last night even though he was asking to by offering to read to him. I am still amazed when it works, as even 3 months ago, NO distraction was going to work and he would just cry harder.

LeeLi said:

I'm not a nursing mama yet but I'm currently a nanny to an extended BF kiddo who is almost 13mos. His mom and I were talking today and she mentioned that he's nursing more and that she has more milk than when he was younger. Did any other mamas of nursing toddlers notice that their kids started nursing more after they turned one?

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I didn't notice MORE nursing per se, but I was much fuller the times we would nurse because I went back to work when he was 1 and all the nursing after that was compressed into a shorter time frame per day, KWIM? So just as much milk, but more at one time. I could not WAIT for the first nursing session after work! He was also demanding to nurse more often for a time because he wanted to feel close after a long day of mommy being gone.

Another thing that really increased nursing for us was illness. There were many times when things were slowing down and we were nursing less, and then he would get sick and turn into a little nursing monster again, which would continue for weeks after he was already better.

LeeLi said:

Did any other mamas of nursing toddlers notice that their kids started nursing more after they turned one?

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Yes, we experienced that. There have been several phases of doing that - they pass, but can be frustrating if you aren't expecting them.

I'm glad you are feeling better about what to do next! It can feel so overwhelming when you are in the middle of it...

Leeli, the amazing thing about nursing is that it is all supply and demand- baby nurses more, mom makes more. My son was very very ill from 18 mo to 26 mo, with asthma and kidney problems (so lots of throwing up) and all he "ate" for that whole time was my milk. It was very thin and watery- somehow my body knew he couldn't digest a lot of cream and mainly needed the hydration. As soon as he recovered (we moved- his illness was a reaction to the air pollution!!!!) my milk turned to CREAM and he grew and grew and grew, 5 inches and 16 lbs in 5 months, and of course he was eating real food again too. But the changes in my milk blew me away- they were just what he needed!