Question Booster for 4 year olds

Dani_mummy · Jan 8, 2011

My sister has 4 year old twins, just over 40lbs, not sure about their height, but they are average size. They just maxed out their seats at 40lbs and she got them booster seats but they are just the no back boosters, brand unknown. I tried telling her they should be in a harness a little while longer or at minimum a highback booster. She responded that she's met the minimum requirements (live in BC) and that I'm going overboard as my daughter is 14months and RF in her Radian XT. I plan on RF and then harness until the max weights etc of the seat. My nieces were FF for their 1st bday- I didn't know a thing about car seats until my daughter came along or I would've said something 3 years ago about it.

I haven't researched booster seats as we are not anywhere near that stage yet but quick search was thinking of Graco Nautilus or Britax Frontier XT (harness until 65 then booster seat). Can you comment on these or recommend seats that I can recommend to her? She currently has a Toyota Sienna but looking around for SUV, she also has a 10 year old.

Thx!

QuassEE · Jan 8, 2011

It's wonderful that you're so concerned about the twins' safety.

As a parent of older children, I can safely say that a lot has changed in the world of child passenger safety over the last 10 years. Sometimes parents have the best of intentions but are going about things with some really outdated information, when they have such an age gap between kids. Ten years ago, it was the norm to forward-face at 1 year, and to put kids in boosters as early as age 3 or 4. Not only did we not know any better, but the seats we had available at that time did not allow for the improved safety our kids now have the option of enjoying.

So, I cannot in any good conscience recommend a full-time booster seat of any sort for a 4 year old. In a pinch, in an emergency situation, I would recommend a highback booster with good side support and that helps fit the adult belt appropriately along the hips and on the bones between the neck and outer shoulder. But, as you have demonstrated you already know, those kids really do need to remain in a harnessed seat until at least kindergarten. Most kids are not mature enough for a booster until age 5 or 6, and I've yet to see a 4 year old that can sit properly in a lowback booster of any sort. Both the Frontier and the Nautilus are highly recommended harnessed seats that can later be used as nice booster, however.

I'm also really hoping the 10 year old is in a seat, knowing how the belts in the Sienna fit. No, it's not legally required, but it is morally required for any parent that wants to keep their child safe in the car. I could care less about legal obligations, when there's something so much more important we promise our children when we decide to bring them into this world.

I'm a tech located in BC, if you or your sister would like to speak with me about this a little more. If you let us know where your sister is located, we'll see if we can find a local tech to offer her a check

-Nicole.

Keeanh · Jan 8, 2011

Dani_mummy said:
My sister has 4 year old twins, just over 40lbs, not sure about their height, but they are average size. They just maxed out their seats at 40lbs and she got them booster seats but they are just the no back boosters, brand unknown. I tried telling her they should be in a harness a little while longer or at minimum a highback booster. She responded that she's met the minimum requirements (live in BC) and that I'm going overboard as my daughter is 14months and RF in her Radian XT. I plan on RF and then harness until the max weights etc of the seat. My nieces were FF for their 1st bday- I didn't know a thing about car seats until my daughter came along or I would've said something 3 years ago about it.

I haven't researched booster seats as we are not anywhere near that stage yet but quick search was thinking of Graco Nautilus or Britax Frontier XT (harness until 65 then booster seat). Can you comment on these or recommend seats that I can recommend to her? She currently has a Toyota Sienna but looking around for SUV, she also has a 10 year old.

Thx!

The nautilus is on sale right now http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3375741. You're right -- Nautilus & Frontier are the best options. If they have short torsos, there are a few other seats with lower harness slots. The Maestro is cheaper and would get them to 47lbs, but that would only be cost-effective if they were tiny and could go from that to the backless boosters.

ETA: My oldest daughter in a booster in 2002. DH thought she no longer needed a harness because she was 4. I had my mom buy a harnessed Century Breverra for her the next day.

hrice · Jan 8, 2011

How is doing more than the BARE MINIMUM going overboard? I do not see the logic in that.

Dani_mummy · Jan 8, 2011

Thx for the replies. I am going to show her a few youtube videos of the backless vs highback booster and will recommend the Graco Nautilus to her. Financially, the Graco is probably easier to sell her on as when you have to buy 2, it adds up really fast.

Her 10 year old is not in any sort of booster. Again, just following the minimums. I'll suggest that as well, since she already has 2 backless boosters, put my 10 year old neice in that?

hrice · Jan 8, 2011

This might help too.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04"]YouTube - The Importance of a 5 Point Harness Car Seat - Belle's Gift[/ame]

Adventuredad · Jan 8, 2011

Great that you care about car seat safety. Using a back less booster is far less safe than high back booster. Main problems are poor belt position and also poor position when kids are sleeping in the car. I would consider a back less booster an option for a 4-year old in emergency or when nothing else was available. Like during a long complicated trip by plane with limited baggage allowance and knowing car would rarely be used at destination.

Using a high back booster for a 4 year old is as safe as using a harnessed seat. Both offer good protection although nowhere near as great as rear facing (even at age 4+). There is contrary to popular belief no research or real life experiences which show any benefit of using a harnessed seat instead of a high back booster seat for older kids (4 and up)

Over here we go straight to high back boosters (after rear facing) at age 4 or so and results are spectacular.

Summary: A back less booster is a very poor choice. Both a high back booster and a harnessed seat will offer good protection.

mommycat · Jan 8, 2011

How are her kids about sitting in position in the boosters? And how good is she about insisting they do so? A booster can in theory be a safe choice for a 4yo but unless she is insisting on proper booster ettiquette it is not a good choice. This is still a potential issue as they get older but a more mature child is probably less likely to climb out of his booster or fall asleep and slump over, etc.

If she is totally set against re-harnessing in any HWH seat then at least try to get them in a decent highback. A basic highback Graco Turboboooster usually fits smaller kids very well. If she is willing to re-harness but balks at the price of the Nautis even on sale, I would recommend the Evenflo Maestro, or in a pinch something like one of the other Evenflo combinations (you can get a Chase on sale for something around $80 at Walmart) - though those tend to make pretty poor boosters, so it's not my first choice.

Keeanh · Jan 8, 2011

While both a high-back booster and a harnessed seat offer great protection for a crash test dummy, real world and real children are different. I am harnessing my 6yo. Not because I think the harness is safer, but because he falls asleep in the car and slumps badly out of position. My 4yo can't even resist kicking the back of my seat when she's frustrated. How can I bet her life on her ability to resist turning around to look at something, or leaning over to pick up something? She is also harnessed.

mommycat · Jan 8, 2011

Sounds like Walmart has the Nauti listed online as on sale for $130 (I can't check it myself right now) - if you can find that up your way, you really can't go wrong.

NMW · Jan 10, 2011

QuassEE said:
It's wonderful that you're so concerned about the twins' safety.

As a parent of older children, I can safely say that a lot has changed in the world of child passenger safety over the last 10 years. Sometimes parents have the best of intentions but are going about things with some really outdated information, when they have such an age gap between kids. Ten years ago, it was the norm to forward-face at 1 year, and to put kids in boosters as early as age 3 or 4. Not only did we not know any better, but the seats we had available at that time did not allow for the improved safety our kids now have the option of enjoying.

So, I cannot in any good conscience recommend a full-time booster seat of any sort for a 4 year old. In a pinch, in an emergency situation, I would recommend a highback booster with good side support and that helps fit the adult belt appropriately along the hips and on the bones between the neck and outer shoulder. But, as you have demonstrated you already know, those kids really do need to remain in a harnessed seat until at least kindergarten. Most kids are not mature enough for a booster until age 5 or 6, and I've yet to see a 4 year old that can sit properly in a lowback booster of any sort. Both the Frontier and the Nautilus are highly recommended harnessed seats that can later be used as nice booster, however.

I'm also really hoping the 10 year old is in a seat, knowing how the belts in the Sienna fit. No, it's not legally required, but it is morally required for any parent that wants to keep their child safe in the car. I could care less about legal obligations, when there's something so much more important we promise our children when we decide to bring them into this world.

I'm a tech located in BC, if you or your sister would like to speak with me about this a little more. If you let us know where your sister is located, we'll see if we can find a local tech to offer her a check

-Nicole.

We are in BC where the law is that kids need to be in boosters until 9 as well. I intend to keep my 5 1/2 yo harnessed for a lot longer... we have a 2007 Sienna and I notice you mentionned that the belts aren't a great fit? We have a few years to think about this, but when we get there, are many kids still in boosters past 9? What would be recommended at that point? HB/LB booster? I am currently purchasing a Frontier for our 5 1/2 yo but we have 3 kids so we could use that for another child by that point. It freaked me out when I realized that DS could legally ride without even a booster in 3 1/2 years! He is still harnesses, and we also feel that doing more than the bare minimum is not going overboard (well put!!!)

mommycat · Jan 10, 2011

The law in NS is 9o or 4'9" and I haven't done a whole lot of work with older kids but I get the feeling that most people just ditch the booster as soon as possible - which is unfortunate, because unless the belt fits well without it, the booster is a matter of safety, not law. At that age, I think a backless would be acceptable unless the child does not do well in one (needs the highback for sleeping or as a reminder to sit straight, etc.). I think the highback may offer some benefit over the backless but not sure how much of a difference it would be, and if it is a matter of the child saying none of the other kids are in boosters, and a backless would make them happier to continue to booster, then a properly fitting backless would be a good compromise.

As far as harnessing a lot longer - at over 5yo (and over 40lbs) it becomes a matter of maturity and preference. As long as the booster fits well and the child uses it correctly at all times, then we have little evidence to suggest the harness is safer. I have personally chosen to allow DS1 to sit in a booster for the past few months (he is almost 6) in some of our vehicles and he does well. Part of the reasoning was to train for eventual carpools and also to make things easier for the grandparents who didn't always get the harnessed seats installed quite right or the harness snug enough. If your 5yo is mature enough and able to sit well in your opinion, I would probably pick up something like a HB Turbobooster and start occasional rides in it to booster train. You will quicly find out if they are ready or not based on performance! Then when you need to shuffle seats your oldest will be used to riding in the booster and ready to do so fulltime.

NMW · Jan 10, 2011

Thanks, I think we will use a booster in our 2nd car when he's 6 1/2 and one of our car seats expires. One of our considerations is that we have two younger kids, the middle one who wants to do everything he does, and having a booster could create issues that aren't there for now. He is also happy and comfortable harnessed and likes to feel secure in other areas as well... I imagine our 2nd won't be harnessed quite as long but for now everyone is happy and safe and I'm not in a rush to make a change.

I can see a backless booster as being a good compromise for a kid who is feeling some peer pressure. Hard to imagine how he`ll be at 9 but so far he`s oblivious.

Question Booster for 4 year olds

Dani_mummy

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